Coat Color Studies Aid Health Research, Breeding C

[appendixqh]

There are other color breeders on this forum...Golden Venture being one. Max is pretty darn nice!

 

[CountryLady]

Soooo is that going to be a "PUREBRED APPENDIX" or some other variant of warmblood.



I bet it will be a purty color tho!

 

[appendixqh]

Soooo is that going to be a "PUREBRED APPENDIX" or some other variant of warmblood.



I bet it will be a purty color tho!

Yes...that is correct most are appendix crosses.

 

[appendixqh]

Question...before you blow into a full immitation of Fugly Horse of the Day...don't you believe that you can breed for color successfully?

 

[CountryLady]

Question...before you blow into a full immitation of Fugly Horse of the Day...don't you believe that you can breed for color successfully?

Sorry,
I was just pokin a little fun. JK


Breeding for color is easy.

Breeding, that includes a preferred color, starts with Conformation and Function (and hopefully follows breed standards).

YES, I believe that can be done successfully.


DISCLAIMER: There is not one perfect horse (one that is flawless) on this planet. They may seem so in our hearts, but reality is that it is not likely. As I have said( and probably many other people have too) If you breed a stallion with nice big feet and an awesome muscular build, and a somewhat ugly head with you near perfect mare with kinda tiny feet, and a beautiful refined face. You JUST MIGHT end up with ALL of those, not so desirable traits in a foal.

 

[appendixqh]

I take breeding very serious, and for you to poke fun puts you in the category of people that like to pass judgement without really looking at all sides. I take it you don't breed...and even fugly says that she doesn't want all people to stop breeding...just the indescriminate ones! If you have a Stallion of color, and breed with the intent to pass on that lovely color, be it silver/buckskin/tobiano/grey etc...color is part of your breeding program. I hate it when assumptions are made by individuals who dont focus on both sides of the article you presented. I actually really like the article, because it talks to standard for breeding. But when people pass judgement when you say you breed for color without even inquiring to other standards...well...that seems a bit shallow. Yes, our foals are eligible for many registries...yes, they are of color...BUT we don't breed anything we don't think will cross well. Then, when our foals don't measure up (genetics likes playing an occasional joke)...we still have great minded buckskins!

 

[CountryLady]

WOW!

Ok. But I only poked GENTLE fun.

I take breeding very serious, and for you to poke fun puts you in the category of people that like to pass judgment without really looking at all sides.

I am sure your animals are all breed with the best intents. Who am I to say? I personally love color and am the first one to advocate for it whenever possible.

I certainly wasn’t poking fun to be mean or to pass judgment on you. I’ll leave that silliness to some of the other posters in this forum. I am not very good at that nor do I like seeing it done. I do look at all sides. I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. That was not my intent.

I take it you don't breed...and even fugly says that she doesn't want all people to stop breeding...just the indiscriminate ones!

“indiscriminate breeding *just* for color” NOT SOMETHING I AGREE WITH!

Do you really have a horse named fugly? I am not judging.

If you have a Stallion of color, and breed with the intent to pass on that lovely color, be it silver/buckskin/tobiano/grey etc...color is part of your breeding program.

I agree it is part of your breeding program, just not the sole part.

I hate it when assumptions are made by individuals who don’t focus on both sides of the article you presented.

I agree!

I actually really like the article, because it talks to standard for breeding.

I agree!!

“only interesting to color breeders” NOT SOMETHING I AGREE WITH!
It should be of intrest to all breeders.

But when people pass judgment when you say you breed for color without even inquiring to other standards...well...that seems a bit shallow.

I agree!!!

Yes, our foals are eligible for many registries...yes, they are of color...BUT we don't breed anything we don't think will cross well. Then, when our foals don't measure up (genetics likes playing an occasional joke)...we still have great minded buckskins!

AGAIN, I MUST AGREE!!!!

I think breeders should consider color whenever possible.

I meant for the article to show those who always slam people that INCLUDE COLOR in their breeding program. Labeling them as color breeders (implying that that is ALL they care about) negating the fact that they breed for conformation and function first.

Conformation and function is why the Appendix came about. The best of both worlds. I am not a big fan of thoroughbreds, but I like to watch their athletic ability. Some people on this forum think (and have posted) that if the horse isn’t showing and placing then it shouldn’t be bred. I don't agree with that either. If someone mentions color then some of these folks start making judgment statements about breeding walk-rock-quarter-alosa-who knows what horse (somethinglike that). I never see thoroughbred or warmblood in that phrase.


It's as if implying that walk-rock-quarter-alosa in any or all parts are inferior.

My poking fun didn't seem harsh when I wrote it, but you took it badly, so
again my apologies.

 

[CountryLady]

The babies are Quarter/Paint/Buckskin/and AWS. We do start with good mares...

AWS isn't that a warmblood registry?

 

[Phyxius]

It did say - all things being equal a buyer is more willing to pay more for color, which is absolutely true.

. I am not a "color" breeder but it seems to me that the American Creme Drafts and Cleveland Bays are actually named FOR their color, which would make them "color bred" right? Is/was that a bad thing? Nope people love them for the way they look.

A color gene -silver- has been linked to am ocular health disorder - Anterior Segmented Dysgenesis. Who would have guessed that would happen, since doubling up on colors didn't create true physical problems for other colors. So this experience makes color testing that much more important because that particular color gene can be completely hidden under the base colors red and brown, it only affects black.

I personally breed for a very specific type of strong gait. The body has to be built a certain way to achieve that gait, so form follows function. Therefore it is important to choose breeding stock that will compliment each other phenotypically to achieve it. A marketable color is icing on the cake, so adding genotype for color into the equasion makes that much easier to do

Um, no. American Cream Drafts are not a color breed. Sorry. Just like American Quarter Horses aren't all racehorses. American Cream Drafts are a specific genetic breed. If you cross an American Cream with another draft breed if that horse is cream it can be registered as Appendix but, that is only because the breed is endangered. Off spring of that appendix can only be registered if bred back to a full American Cream Draft. ALL registered horses MUST be DNA tested. After passing DNA testing they are color and JEB tested.

Cleveland Bay is just one name for the oldest horse breed in Britain. They used to have markings similar to duns with dorsal stripes and zebra stripes. As with other breeds (example height of white markings on QH legs) some color preferences have been noted. For example bright bay is more desirable than dark bay.

This same preference is seen in many breeds but it doesn't make for a color registry. Friesian's are only black. Percherons while registerable in any solid color are most desired in black with no white or a white star. There are occasional chestnut and bay percherons and percherons with blazes and socks. But, because those are not desired that horse isn't as likely to go on to show career and subsequently the breeding shed.

Shoot, I had to remove a link from here because it's not a public thread. But we've had plenty of discussion regarding breeding horses of color in which you asked me if I was going to keep a 1 week old horse a stallion because of his color. And then you tried to argue with me about it. I fully believe that you are a color *first* breeder.

 

[Phyxius]

The babies are Quarter/Paint/Buckskin/and AWS. We do start with good mares...

I've met AppendixQH's stallion, some of her mares, and I've ridden one of her babies. They are VERY nice horses. She didn't buy the stallion as a weanling because of his color and start breeding him as soon as he was physically able. She bought a well experienced, proven stallion and has bred him to her lovely mares.

 

[devinej]

i'd have to agree with phyx when the first thing you say about your stallion is that there is no silver dapple gene

http://www.briesrottweilers.com/horses/hondo.pdf

 

[CountryLady]

Well I beg to differ

i'd have to agree with phyx when the first thing you say about your stallion is that there is no silver dapple gene

http://www.briesrottweilers.com/horses/hondo.pdf

It is important in the Rocky Mountain Breed (as well in other breeds that carry the silver gene) to know if a prospect stallion carries silver and how many copies of the gene he carries due to potential issues with ASD. It is also important to know if the mare carries silver and how many copies. I have a sorrel Rocky Mare that is registered silver bay. The breeders (Big time Breeder mind you) never had this mare color tested. If they had, they would have found out that she is a red/sorrel horse that carries silver, not a bay horse with silver. Silver doesn't affect red horses. My mare happens to have a flaxen mane as well. Looking at her, it is impossible to KNOW what her color DNA is. Point is in over the years, conversing with many big breeders they usually don’t color test their animals. There is still a lot to learn about ASD and how it is linked with the silver gene. Until we know more about ASD, responsible owners test their animals for the silver gene to identify how many copies of the gene they carry. That way you can safely make responsible decisions when breeding. HappyAppy tests all of her animals, so she knows what she has. But a lot of folks that would potentially come to her to breed to her stallion may not know. I see no problem with her making the statement that her stallion does not carry silver. There are a lot of double sliver mares out there that are looking for a stallion that doesn't carry the silver gene. ALSO, her stallion is a very nice boy, and very well put together. Her young daughter rides him around bareback all the time and he is ALWAYS quite the gentleman.

 

[appendixqh]

I've met AppendixQH's stallion, some of her mares, and I've ridden one of her babies. They are VERY nice horses. She didn't buy the stallion as a weanling because of his color and start breeding him as soon as he was physically able. She bought a well experienced, proven stallion and has bred him to her lovely mares.

Awww! Thanks Phyx! It is quite impressive when two aged stallions can be stalled next to each other calmly and quietly. And both can be ridden and handled like geldings!

And yes...country lady, we cross our stallion on all types of mares, as he is the most versatile producer I have ever seen. If crossed on a TB, the foals are AQHA(appendix), APHA, AWS,ABRA,IBHA registration eligible. Yes, he is AWS inspected as well. Most Appendix horses are eligible for AWS. So yes...we cross to bring color and versatility on good examples of different breeds. HOWEVER, we will not breed to just any breed of mare.

It seems you are trying to ping on breeders (especially color based breeders) with some of the posts you have made...

 

[CountryLady]

Awww! Thanks Phyx! It is quite impressive when two aged stallions can be stalled next to each other calmly and quietly. And both can be ridden and handled like geldings!

And yes...country lady, we cross our stallion on all types of mares, as he is the most versatile producer I have ever seen. If crossed on a TB, the foals are AQHA(appendix), APHA, AWS,ABRA,IBHA registration eligible. Yes, he is AWS inspected as well. Most Appendix horses are eligible for AWS. So yes...we cross to bring color and versatility on good examples of different breeds. HOWEVER, we will not breed to just any breed of mare.

It seems you are trying to ping on breeders (especially color based breeders) with some of the posts you have made...

On the contrary, not pinging on breeders of any type color based or pedigree based or function based. It seems as though others here do that. I think that there are a lot of misconceptions out there with regard to breeds that also have color. As I said as soon as you mention color,....people flip. My purpose is to educate, and show that there is nothing wrong with haveing conformation and color. But some of the folks on here all ready know it all. Hard to educate closed minded folks.

 

[fredsaid2]

On the contrary, not pinging on breeders of any type color based or pedigree based or function based. It seems as though others here do that. I think that there are a lot of misconceptions out there with regard to breeds that also have color. As I said as soon as you mention color,....people flip. My purpose is to educate, and show that there is nothing wrong with haveing conformation and color. But some of the folks on here all ready know it all. Hard to educate closed minded folks.

Agree! Some are "all ready know it all" know-it-alls and very hard to educate. Poopy-heads!

 

[appendixqh]

As I said as soon as you mention color,....people flip.

Yes...in fact...I said I bred for color...you gave me the eyebrow.

 

[devinej]

It is important in the Rocky Mountain Breed (as well in other breeds that carry the silver gene) to know if a prospect stallion carries silver and how many copies of the gene he carries due to potential issues with ASD. It is also important to know if the mare carries silver and how many copies. I have a sorrel Rocky Mare that is registered silver bay. The breeders (Big time Breeder mind you) never had this mare color tested. If they had, they would have found out that she is a red/sorrel horse that carries silver, not a bay horse with silver. Silver doesn't affect red horses. My mare happens to have a flaxen mane as well. Looking at her, it is impossible to KNOW what her color DNA is. Point is in over the years, conversing with many big breeders they usually don’t color test their animals. There is still a lot to learn about ASD and how it is linked with the silver gene. Until we know more about ASD, responsible owners test their animals for the silver gene to identify how many copies of the gene they carry. That way you can safely make responsible decisions when breeding. HappyAppy tests all of her animals, so she knows what she has. But a lot of folks that would potentially come to her to breed to her stallion may not know. I see no problem with her making the statement that her stallion does not carry silver. There are a lot of double sliver mares out there that are looking for a stallion that doesn't carry the silver gene. ALSO, her stallion is a very nice boy, and very well put together. Her young daughter rides him around bareback all the time and he is ALWAYS quite the gentleman.

blah blah blah = its about color and the fact he has balls.......

 

[Duckz]

Poopy head and balls...real mature guys

 

[happyappygirl]

blah blah blah = its about color and the fact he has balls.......

Have you ever once spoken directly to me about my breeding program in person rather than on a forum?

Have you seen my stallion, stud colt and brood mare bands for each? Yes, I have two because I also have a second stud colt who will have his own band due to their structure, gait and yes, their color. Each stud has his own band of mares as a result of hours and hours of pedigree and gait research and what i want to achieve in the foals I raise train then sell from each.

Do you have a clue about gaits, how they feel and the structure related each one? Are you a certified examiner for ANY breed?

When you or anyone else who has posted on here, has gained adequate knowledge about any breed that you take the test, pass and become an examiner for it, then and only then can you look at my breeding animals and have a valid opinion.

Oh and did i mention that I already am an examiner for the Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horse Association, and will be flying out to take the exam for the Rocky Mountain Horse Association when they offer another opportunity? Guess you didn't see that on my website.

Oh and as a little side note, the co-owner of a mare owned with the person who has written THE book on Rockies has chosen that stallion of mine out of all the registered Rockies in the country to sire her next foal, confirmed as arriving on March 2010. Oh happy day!

 

[devinej]

just letting you know what it looks like from an outsider checking you out..........