Considering all of the threads on local driving

[thurley42]

I must admit that when there is deep snow on the roads, I am one of those in the 4x4 that has to go out and play.
I am always surprised when someone in a front wheel drive comes up behind the dually 4x4, gets upset because I am driving slow, then flies around me like he/she has all the control in the world.
Hint, if the 4x4s are driving slow due to road conditions, it might be a good idea for the average 1 wheel drive to consider also slowing down.

I mostly go to parking lots and communities looking for the deepest snow I can find just to see if I will get stuck.

Just cant fix stupid, they dont make drugs for that condition, Ive learned to accept it.

During a snow storm is the only time you will ever catch me at Walmart...it's the only place open and I need snacks during playtime in the truck...

 

[glhs837]

Boy do I agree, it's the chuckle heads that just drive down the road oblivious to other traffic - while they are probably the greatest threat to safety, they are the least likely to get stopped because they aren't breaking the speed limit.
Unfortunately traffic safety and revenue enhancement are not mutally exclusive, writing tickets is as more about revenue (the result) then getting bad drivers off the road.

Actually, Bernie, automated enforcement aside, the preponderance of speed enforcement over citing just plain bad drivers by uniformed patrol officers has very little to do with making money.

I did a little research into this and it comes down to this.

1. The public has been trained for a generation or two that "Speed kills". So, when the see speeding, they complain, even if its not really dangerous speeding.
2. Politicians offices and local authorities get those calls, and respond with pumping up speed enforcement actions, in the name of serving the citizens.
3. It's super easy to defend a speeding citation in court. We measured a number, cut and dried. Guilty. Unsafe lane changes? Improper following distance? Very hard to prove such in court.
4. We like numbers, numbers show work was done. So, if I can generate a large number of citations for X number of man-hours of patrol time, I can show work was done, tax dollars bought something worthwhile. Switching to stupid driver enforcement would mean a drop in numbers.

Look at Rt 4 in Calvert. The only real speed related fatality I can think of in recent memory was that officer who crested the hill and t-boned that young lady. All the others were simple failure to yield, folks pulling out in front of traffic. But what does the CCSO do? Run saturation speed enforcement, because it's not about fixing the problem, it's about being seen doing something the public thinks will solve the problem.

 

[Cheeky1]

Thread after thread of people pointing out how everyone else on the road is an idiot.

I find much more appealing to vent the steam right there in the vehicle, rather than on the forum. But, it is entertaining to read other peoples' experiences.

And, with the first snow will come the
I can drive in it but nobody else can.

A lot of would be drivers stay home on snowy days....this is probably for the best.

Rain? Night? everyone is better at driving than everybody else.

There really some 'doozy' drivers out there. It is easy to a better driver than these folks - all you would need to do is pay attention to the road.

If everyone was as good as they claimed to be, then would there be as many accidents and complaints?

There will only be more people and more drivers which means more complaints and more accidents.

 

[BernieP]

two things

Grew up and learned to drive in the snow belt. I love to drive in snow, that is until others hit the road. It's not the snow that bothers me, it's the people who think that driving in snow / ice is no different then driving on a dry road, particularly because they have a 4 wheel drive. 4 wheel, front wheel, drive only helps you go, it doesn't help you stop. That's probably the simplest rule, go fast enough to not be a danger, but slow enough to retain control of the vehicle and leave plenty of room to slow down and stop. Relax, if you are uptight about driving in snow you shouldn't drive in snow, smooth operation is required.

I've sat through drivers education classes in recent years and they are still teaching defensive driving and maintaining situational awareness. But for some reason people seem to not care. Maybe it's a generational thing, at some point in time you decide your rights are somehow greater then your responsibilities.

 

[Cheeky1]

Grew up and learned to drive in the snow belt. I love to drive in snow, that is until others hit the road. It's not the snow that bothers me, it's the people who think that driving in snow / ice is no different then driving on a dry road, particularly because they have a 4 wheel drive. 4 wheel, front wheel, drive only helps you go, it doesn't help you stop. That's probably the simplest rule, go fast enough to not be a danger, but slow enough to retain control of the vehicle and leave plenty of room to slow down and stop. Relax, if you are uptight about driving in snow you shouldn't drive in snow, smooth operation is required.

I've sat through drivers education classes in recent years and they are still teaching defensive driving and maintaining situational awareness. But for some reason people seem to not care. Maybe it's a generational thing, at some point in time you decide your rights are somehow greater then your responsibilities.

Yes, foot stompers have no place in snowy weather.....or the rain....why not normal weather too.....I suppose mother nature can't everyone indoors forever.

Last snow season I was out during one the snows to go help one my friends dig himself out. I was driving a small front-wheel drive sedan. The only vehicles I saw on the roads were trucks. I wonder what they were thinking watching this dinky little car coming down the road....

 

[thurley42]

Yes, foot stompers have no place in snowy weather.....or the rain....why not normal weather too.....I suppose mother nature can't everyone indoors forever.

Last snow season I was out during one the snows to go help one my friends dig himself out. I was driving a small front-wheel drive sedan. The only vehicles I saw on the roads were trucks. I wonder what they were thinking watching this dinky little car coming down the road....

FWD car beats a 4x4 with no weight in the bed everytime...

 

[bcp]

FWD car beats a 4x4 with no weight in the bed everytime...

I would certainly be willing to challenge that the next time we get a foot or better of snow on the ground.

 

[Cheeky1]

I would certainly be willing to challenge that the next time we get a foot or better of snow on the ground.

I suppose a snowed in 4x4 would have better odds of breaking a path over a car.

Given both drivers can drive in snowy weather, in 2 or 3 inches of snow on the ground, would 4x4 still outperform (keep traction better) a FWD car?
...what do you think?

 

[Cheeky1]

So, I ask, are you doing everything the right way and everyone else is an ass...

I would argue that in most cases, there is only one, CORRECT way to drive in, especially, adverse conditions. Carefully and leave lots of space for error (for yours and/or someone elses).

Agree?

 

[thurley42]

I would certainly be willing to challenge that the next time we get a foot or better of snow on the ground.

Sorry, I should have realized in the literal world of the Internet I should have specified. In moderate snow, ie. under six inches or so because of clearance, a fwd handles everybit as good as a properly weighted four wheel drive an better than one with no weight in the back.

 

[bcp]

Sorry, I should have realized in the literal world of the Internet I should have specified. In moderate snow, ie. under six inches or so because of clearance, a fwd handles everybit as good as a properly weighted four wheel drive an better than one with no weight in the back.

I still disagree with you.
2 to three times the number of traction wheels, On mine we are talking 5 positive traction wheels vs the 1 positive traction wheel on the FWD.

FWD will out do RWD any day of the week, but a FWD by itself can not do better than a 4x4.

as far as the weight in the back, that FWD is trying to pull dead weight through the snow, the 4x4 at least has one wheel minimum to try and push the back along while the front pulls.

Pure physics alone dictate that 4x4 is going to do better than FWD.

Now an AWD in something like a cherokee or other sport utility will do better than a 4x4 pickup until such a time that the snow reaches above the bumper.

 

[Railroad]

Depending on the day, there are times when I should NOT be behind the wheel, and it has nothing to do with booze or drugs.

On the other hand, those days are still rare at the moment. There are others in the morning traffic fight who are consistently dangerous. Sometimes I see them in the afternoons being as bad if not worse.

 

[awpitt]

I suppose a snowed in 4x4 would have better odds of breaking a path over a car.

Given both drivers can drive in snowy weather, in 2 or 3 inches of snow on the ground, would 4x4 still outperform (keep traction better) a FWD car?
...what do you think?

Absolutely. That's a no brainer.

 

[Railroad]

Absolutely. That's a no brainer.

True. Getting going is no problem. Stopping, and keeping from losing directional control, are as bad no matter how many wheels you are powering. The best solutions are careful and experienced driver, weight on the driving wheels, traction control, and anti-lock brakes.

 

[preselector]

I suppose a snowed in 4x4 would have better odds of breaking a path over a car.

Given both drivers can drive in snowy weather, in 2 or 3 inches of snow on the ground, would 4x4 still outperform (keep traction better) a FWD car?
...what do you think?

I believe Thurley and bcp are correct (4WD better than FWD) with one exception.

Years ago I was headed south on I95 south of Petersburg in a 4WD pickup truck and encountered a heavy snowfall. For some reason the road washboarded (snow speed bumps).

Above a certain speed the bumps sent the unweighted and stiffly suspended rear end dancing in the air. Up to a certain point I could use the pulling front wheels to bring the dancing rear end (sounds kinky I know) into alignment.

The FWD cars had an advantage because of weight distribution/ compliant suspension and, like me, could use the pulling front wheels to bring the rear end into alignment.

The funny part was the large, RWD, luxury car that went speeding past with me with the occupants giving me a 'you're a chicken' look. The compliant suspension hide what was really happening underneath right up until the lose of control and entry into the median. I ignored the pleading looks as I went past them.

 

[willie]

Spend a week in Florida if you want to see some real brain dead drivers.

 

[Cheeky1]

Spend a week in Florida if you want to see some real brain dead drivers.

All that lounging on the beach must have something to do with that.....

...might be why California is similar.

 

[aps45819]

I suppose a snowed in 4x4 would have better odds of breaking a path over a car.

Given both drivers can drive in snowy weather, in 2 or 3 inches of snow on the ground, would 4x4 still outperform (keep traction better) a FWD car?
...what do you think?

A lot of folks with 4X4s don't have limited slip/locking differentials. When traction is low, ONE wheel on each axle will spin and they find out they don't really have 4 wheel drive.
Some folks bought big rims and low profile tires for their 4X4s. If their low profiles are "summer" tires, they lose grip below 40 degrees and are useless in snow.
They're idiots.

The smart folks have a Subaru to drive when the weather is crappy
Subaru's All Wheel Drive System - AutoWorld.Com

 

[bcp]

A lot of folks with 4X4s don't have limited slip/locking differentials. When traction is low, ONE wheel on each axle will spin and they find out they don't really have 4 wheel drive.
Some folks bought big rims and low profile tires for their 4X4s. If their low profiles are "summer" tires, they lose grip below 40 degrees and are useless in snow.
They're idiots.

The smart folks have a Subaru to drive when the weather is crappy
Subaru's All Wheel Drive System - AutoWorld.Com

limited slip is useless.
on the GMs the back axle is a full locking. In snow I do have 5 tires with full traction on the ground, one of the fronts are not any value since the front axle is limited slip.

 

[Toxick]

I can drive in it but nobody else can. or, I learned to drive in 20ft of snow on top of the Swiss Alps,
Rain? Night? everyone is better at driving than everybody else.

I have made two mistakes while driving. One when I was 15, the other when I was 16. Since then, my driving record has been unblemished by stupidity, blunders or tomfoolery. Police have written songs to my driving acumen, and my skill behind the wheel is unparalleled in the known universe.

I also leave perfect tips when I go out to eat. Exactly what the waiter or waitress deserves, not a penny more (unless I'm feeling generous) and not a penny less (no qualifiers).


Anybody who says different can suck it.