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Bruzilla
Guest
My bad on the G and D mixup.
Please identify what model of 92/96 is single-action only?
Please identify what model of 92/96 is single-action only?
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Bruzilla
Guest
ylexot said:
Once again, there are single-action guns, double-action guns, and double-action only guns. A Colt SAA or M-1911A1 is a single-action gun, not a single-action only gun. Now if they had designed a double-action version of the gun, the term single-action only could apply as there would be a single-action and a double action version of the gun. I know of no such animals out there in the handgun world. There are plenty of double-action and double-action only guns, but the only pistol I can think of that might fall into this category would be Browning HP as I believe there are some distant variants that use a double action AND are still classified as having a Browning HP action.
You are still thinking like your idol Mr. Ayoob that some obscure definition of double action is a gun that can fire single or double action, and that is just as intelligent and informed as saying all assault rifles are machine guns. So here's a primer that you can study:
Single Action - Each pull of the trigger fires the gun once it is manually cocked.
Double Action - Each pull of the trigger cocks and fires the weapon.
Double Action Only - A variant of a double-action where each pull of the trigger cocks and fires the weapon and there is no provision for manually cocking the hammer.
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ylexot
Super Genius
Beretta 92/96 STEEL I So, would you consider that an SAO gun since DA/SA's and DAO guns exist?Bruzilla said:
Not even close to my idol, just someone that I have seen referenced many times by many people as knowing what he is talking about. Even though he's not my idol, I'll still take his word over yours any day. So, where did you get your definition of DAO? Pull it out of a dark orifice?Bruzilla said:
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They are DAO BECAUSE they can ONLY be fired DOUBLE ACTION. Hence the O in DAO. A S&W 629 is a double action revolver; it can be fired double action (trigger pull cocks and releases hammer) or single action (cock the hammer manually and then use trigger to release it).Bruzilla said:
And anyone that relies on a mechanical safety, no matter how good it is, is a shooting idiot no matter how many gun courses they have taught or taken. One of the first things I was ever taught in a gun safety course was "NEVER RELY ON THE SAFETY!".
If you teach otherwise, well ....
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Sheesh Bru, take a breath will ya.Bruzilla said:And, you can argue with me all you like, but you can't argue with the numbers... Glocks are involved in unintentional shootings far more than any other gun.
Once again, there's a reason why the numbers for Glocks are so high as compared to other guns.
All that hot air is frizzing my hair. 
Exactly where are these numbers you so proudly profess? I want to see actual data, not some article written by some goober who has his head up his azz too. In fact, I'd like to see it from a few different sources done since the 80's (when Glocks were new) up until this year.
For years they've been hyping SPF 30+ sunblock saying the sun gives you cancer - AVOID the sun. Everyone knows that overexposure to the sun can give you skin cancer. Lo and behold, this year it's been reported that a little bit of sun DECREASES the likelyhood of skin cancer and those high SPF sunblocks do more harm than good.
Before I forget...
Enjoy your G22 but BE CAREFUL 'cause I don't want you to come back here and tell me you've done shot yer eye out.
GLOCKS ARE DANGEROUS!
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tikipirate
Guest
2A-
You're gonna end up loving the Glock. Once you get used to the trigger action it is a dream.
Stoke it with 135 grain Cor-Bon +P JHPs.
You're gonna end up loving the Glock. Once you get used to the trigger action it is a dream.
Stoke it with 135 grain Cor-Bon +P JHPs.
Glocks are neither according to this piece by a NRA Certified Pistol Instructor. It makes sense to me.
Actually, I don't shot a Glock because they don't have one on .44 Rem Mag. All I shoot in handguns are .22 cal out of a Ruger Mark II and .44 Rem Mag. Recently I have been shooting .44 with my Desert Eagle Mark XIX. I also have a 629 and a Super Blackhawk.tikipirate said:
Sharon, also know as Glockchick, is my wife and loves her Glocks and shoots tight groups. We shoot often.
Ken King said:
Touche.
I see you found the article written by some yahoo who considers himself the end all, be all, of pistol shooting. As far as the action is concerned, he should take it up with the BATF, they classified it, end of arguement (for me) but you guys keep shooting yourselves in the foot about it.
What freakin' idjit puts cleaning solvent on their primers?
Ok, ok, I know the answer to that, and you probably do too. 
Glocks require very little lubricant (who uses Hoppes anyways?) and I'm sure some moron thought more is better. We've all seen these idiots at the range with their guns dripping oil. 
Primers hate lubricant. Why the author considers this a specifically Glock problem is beyond me...oh WAIT!... it's not. 
http://members.cox.net/guntraining/no_glocks.htm
Another Glock hater, no surprise. :flush:
Hey Ken!
I wonder what Barney uses the bell for?
http://members.cox.net/guntraining/train2.jpg
I hope his training class is better than his photographic abilities.
YeeHAAAA! http://members.cox.net/guntraining/squat1.jpg
I wonder what Barney uses the bell for?
http://members.cox.net/guntraining/train2.jpg
I hope his training class is better than his photographic abilities.
YeeHAAAA! http://members.cox.net/guntraining/squat1.jpg
Well Bruzilla is says he is a NRA Certified Pistol Instructor and it still doesn't mean they know.Ken King said:
One thing in the article sets me to thinking the guy is just, well ...
Anyone who has done any reloading knows that oil, whether it is a cleaning solution or gun oil, is used to make primers dead not just desensitized. Also, anyone who cleans a gun and leaves anything more that the lightest of coatings of oil is asking for trouble. Oil attacks dirt.
If you are storing for a long time, then use a good coating, but clean the gun before shooting it. Just like you should alway clean a new gun before firing it. If you are cleaning your self-defense gun, then only use a very light coat. The Glock manual actually says to use as little oil as possible and there are only a few points that are supposed to be oiled.
Also, I don't use reloads for self-defense. Not because they aren't good loads. Because the primers are generally sealed after loading. I could do that, but I don't. They don't stay loaded that long. I just loaded 750 rounds for Sharon. They'll probably last a little longer than a month.
Will the trigger on a Glock re-cock the striker? No. Would I want it to? No. If the round misfires, do I know it was a misfire or an empty chamber? No. Do I care? No. I am going to rack the slide for a fresh round and pull the trigger. Why would I want to drop the hammer or striker on a round that didn't fire in a do or die situation? It still might not fire, and then I've given the other guy twice the time to get his shot off. No thanks.
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I hope the camera was an automatic camera and no one was behind it. If someone took the picture from behind the camera, then this guy just demonstrated what you are never to do, point a gun, loaded or unloaded, at anyone you don't intend to shoot.Sharon said:
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tikipirate
Guest
tikipirate said:
Sorry 2A! It's Bruzilla who has the G22 on order.
This thread has gone downhill in an agonizing manner. We really do need a firearms section under 'hobbies' or whatnot. The Glock lovers versus the Glock haters would be the most active thread!
I am an old-school guy who learned to shoot a handgun when I was 8 with a Browning Hi-Power. For years I practiced with a Ruger bull barrel .22 and followed it up with a Colt series 80 from the Colt custom shop. (240 grain Hydra-Shoks baby! I never shoot ball, because you train like you fight.) It took me a couple of hours to get used to the Glock, but now I wouldn't shoot anything else unless out of pure necessity.
That unique trigger pull can be your friend or your enemy. Train your finger to take up the creep (and let's not start a fight about what is and isn't trigger creep...I fully realize that I am mis-using the word) and you can shoot in an almost-SA fashion, with almost-SA accuracy, but at a slower rate of fire. Try it yourself... Pull out your 629 and repeatedly pull the trigger until you feel close to let-off. The last bare movement discharges the weapon. Do that hundreds of times. Then go to the range and perform that same drill, but at time of discharge thrust the gun at your target in a perfect Weaver stance. After a while it will feel as if lightning bolts are coming from your arms.
Maybe this is where the accidental discharges are coming from? At the range I can pull the weapon and have 80% of trigger travel accomplished by the time I lock on to target. (But I'm not so stupid to take my finger off of the trigger guard until the weapon is pointed downrange!) During high-stress shooting this type of shooting from low round shooters might be ill-advised? But if you shoot like this until it is second nature...genius. The only place this doesn't work well is in practical shooting competition with multiple targets. Then the tack-tack-tack of the SA Colt reigns supreme. Make mine a .38 Super.
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I am no expert on weapons, but the question concerning single-action versus double-action is pretty clear cut, at least in my mind. Double-action both sets and releases the hammer/firing pin with a single pull of the trigger and for single-action you set the hammer/firing pin with one action and then release it with the pull of the trigger.
Now reading what you guys have said about the Glock (actually Sharon's explanation) is that when you rack the slide the firing pin is only partially set and it takes the act of moving the trigger to fully set the pin just prior to it being released (safe-action). If this is how it works (and I believe you that this is exactly how it does it) then the gun, in my mind, is neither single nor double action but something totally unique regardless of how BATF classifies it.
Now reading what you guys have said about the Glock (actually Sharon's explanation) is that when you rack the slide the firing pin is only partially set and it takes the act of moving the trigger to fully set the pin just prior to it being released (safe-action). If this is how it works (and I believe you that this is exactly how it does it) then the gun, in my mind, is neither single nor double action but something totally unique regardless of how BATF classifies it.
No harm; no foul. I started shooting at 8 too. I, too, train like I would fight, 240 gr Speer Gold Dot HP .44 cal (.429) just like a .38 is really .357.tikipirate said:
True enough, the Glock action is unique. That is why Glock calls it the "Safe Action", but one definition of DA is constant trigger pull which the Glock certainly has. A double/single has a long hard pull that cocks the trigger and fires the weapon and a short, lighter break. The Glock always has a long pull. Hammerless revolvers (actually most have internal concealed hammers) are true double action only because you cannot cock the hammer manually.Ken King said:
A little off topic, OK a lot off topic, since we are way off topic now, the reason for the half-cock position was to get the firing pin off the primer. You were supposed to have to fully cock the hammer before firing. Some guns were prone to dropping the hammer in the half-cock position and firing prematurely or unexpectedly, hence the phrase, "going off half-cocked".
ylexot
Super Genius
He also agrees with what I consider to be the definition of DAOKen King said:
Of course, I kinda disagree with his definitions because they are hammer related and he had to make up a new definition so that he could say that Glocks are not DA.
My simple definition of Double Action...two (double
) actions occur during trigger pull. Makes sense, doesn't it? Thus, in the case of Glocks, the remaining compression of the spring would be the first action and the release of the firing pin would be action number two...therefore, it is Double Action. I believe this must be the reasoning behind the BATF's classification of Glocks as DA.And just for the record (why not, we're off topic anyway), I'm not a fan of Glocks, but I'm not a hater either. I tried one at a range once and didn't like it. It had multiple FTF's (possibly due to it being a range gun that needed work) and I just didn't like the feel. I also tried a Beretta...it felt right and no FTF's. So, that's what I like. Also, I'm not a gun expert and am actually fairly new to guns...Mom hates guns and still doesn't know that I own one (several actually). However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night
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tikipirate
Guest
Funny story...
I got my Glock23 at the same time my buddy got his SIG. We went to the range together one Saturday. After about 15 minutes we asked each other how it was going. Neither one of us could barely hit paper! We traded guns and both of us proceeded to group center of mass.
I've gotten better. Not so sure about him.
I got my Glock23 at the same time my buddy got his SIG. We went to the range together one Saturday. After about 15 minutes we asked each other how it was going. Neither one of us could barely hit paper! We traded guns and both of us proceeded to group center of mass.
I've gotten better. Not so sure about him.
Personally, I like a crisp trigger break. That is too hard to feel for me with a Glock, but I don't shoot them much. I even shoot my S&W 629 in SA most of the time. The only time I would foresee shooting it in DA would be to snap a shot to scare the fecal matter out of someone, so I could get time to get off a SA follow-up shot. I do OK in the accuracy department shooting it DA, so I might not need the follow-up. A .44 Rem Mag leaves a big mess no matter where it hits on a body.
How about "TRIPLE-ACTION"?ylexot said:He also agrees with what I consider to be the definition of DAO
Of course, I kinda disagree with his definitions because they are hammer related and he had to make up a new definition so that he could say that Glocks are not DA.
My simple definition of Double Action...two (double
And just for the record (why not, we're off topic anyway), I'm not a fan of Glocks, but I'm not a hater either. I tried one at a range once and didn't like it. It had multiple FTF's (possibly due to it being a range gun that needed work) and I just didn't like the feel. I also tried a Beretta...it felt right and no FTF's. So, that's what I like. Also, I'm not a gun expert and am actually fairly new to guns...Mom hates guns and still doesn't know that I own one (several actually). However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night
1. Rack the slide - preset for the firing pin
2. Trigger squeeze completes setting of firing pin
3. And releases trigger.
I've only owned revolvers (both S/A and D/A) and only fired a couple of semi-automatics, the 1911 Colt 45 and a cheap .380 (don't remember the make). I prefer the old fashioned revolver (my favorite is my Ruger BP7), but that is me.
