Cosmological argument for God

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ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
SamSpade said:
I'm sorry, but you clearly don't understand the issue. The concept that a species arises that subsists on an abundance of a certain food is not only consistent with evolution, it more or less confirms it.

It helps to remember that evolution is not an intelligent Deity but a concept revolving around survival and reproduction. If nuclear war wipes out most of the life on earth, and the only thing left around is cockroaches, a species that thrives on the abundance of cockroaches will emerge to the top of the food chain. If there's an abundance of herring, species that can't thrive on it won't benefit from it - species that do, will.

Pandas thrive on bamboo - it grows very fast and in the right environment, will spread everywhere. Wipe out bamboo or otherwise threaten their environment, and the delicate balance is destroyed. Koalas on the other hand, survive almost exclusively on eucalyptus leaves. Besides having a very low metabolic rate and therefore needing very little, there's extremely little competition for the food, thus allowing them to benefit from it.

I can't begin to understand why you think this would suggest "design". If anything, it totally corroborates what evolution teaches. I would have to suspect an intelligent designer wouldn't make these kinds of symbiosis so extremely delicate, and would make species have a "back-up" plan.

Humans have made use of this basic concept for millenia - kill what it eats, kill the species.
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Sorry, but I DO understand the issue of evolution Sam so I'll try once more. Using the example I used earlier, I'm just making the point for intelligent design so as to advance the point that Foodcritic is making for the beginning of the universe. Without God's plan & wisdom, this universe would not exist or survive. He knew that some species to go extinct and made allowances for it. What I'm saying is that everything had a beginning but NOT from evolution or a "big bang". Many people can't fathom the idea that everything except God had a beginning, meaning that it had to be created. This means the universe also. Whether it is expanding or contracting or bouncing, it had to be created by an intelligent being. It could not and did not "BANG" into existence without the hand of God. And, if a nuclear blast wiped out most of life except the roaches, it's still under the watchful eye of God and nothing happens without His allowing it. That's all I'm trying to say.
 
G

Gwydion

New Member
Evolution could have foreseen this
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Evidently, you do not understand evolution at all. Evolution can not foresee ANYTHING. It adapts to current states. For example:

Remember; you can't get fire insurance after the fire!
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Intelligent Design would have allowed you to know you need fire insurance, but you did not have it.

Evolution will prove that now that you have lost, you will evolve into a smarter person and get fire insurance for the things you own.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Gwydion said:
Evidently, you do not understand evolution at all. Evolution can not foresee ANYTHING. It adapts to current states. For example:


Intelligent Design would have allowed you to know you need fire insurance, but you did not have it.

Evolution will prove that now that you have lost, you will evolve into a smarter person and get fire insurance for the things you own.
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:lol: Well, sorta. Intelligent Design says that a creator made you smart enough to buy fire insurance, and you chose not to.

Evolution says that you didn't have it, you will die and not reproduce as much as those who do, and people who have it will live longer and reproduce more - therefore eventually, with enough generations of this, people will evolve into having fire insurance as a given.......
 
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Gwydion

New Member
This_person said:
:lol: Well, sorta. Intelligent Design says that a creator made you smart enough to buy fire insurance, and you chose not to.

Evolution says that you didn't have it, you will die and not reproduce as much as those who do, and people who have it will live longer and reproduce more - therefore eventually, with enough generations of this, people will evolve into having fire insurance as a given.......
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I liked the part where you said he should have died. :)
 
I

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Xaquin44 said:
prove that and you wouldn't have to work for a living.
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I have proved it and I DON'T work for a living anymore. God has allowed me to retire young with the understanding that I'll "work" for Him and He'll take care of my finances. I do volunteer work now and all's well here so, anything else?
Gwydion said:
Evidently, you do not understand evolution at all. Evolution can not foresee ANYTHING. It adapts to current states. For example: Intelligent Design would have allowed you to know you need fire insurance, but you did not have it.
Evolution will prove that now that you have lost, you will evolve into a smarter person and get fire insurance for the things you own.
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Good eye Gwydion but that was just a mistype on my part. I meant to say that evolution couldn't have seen this. I'll go back and correct it. :yay:
This_person said:
:lol: Well, sorta. Intelligent Design says that a creator made you smart enough to buy fire insurance, and you chose not to.
Evolution says that you didn't have it, you will die and not reproduce as much as those who do, and people who have it will live longer and reproduce more - therefore eventually, with enough generations of this, people will evolve into having fire insurance as a given.......
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:yay: Easy for me to see this. Why can't others??
 
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Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
ItalianScallion said:
I have proved it
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I highly doubt that.

edit: in addition, I see that you don't know what 'prove' means.

Prove:

1. to establish the truth or genuineness of, as by evidence or argument: to prove one's claim.
2. Law. to establish the authenticity or validity of (a will); probate.
3. to give demonstration of by action.
4. to subject to a test, experiment, comparison, analysis, or the like, to determine quality, amount, acceptability, characteristics, etc.

the 'evidence' you provide is merely your say so accompanied by an old book.

unfortunatly (for your 'arguments'), neither hold up.

edit again: and remember, very very very VERY few people actually agree on the meaning behind the contents of you book.
 
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foodcritic

foodcritic

New Member
Stay On Topic

For those who forgot what the original discussion was about!!!!!


Here is an outline of the argument:

1. The universe either had (a) a beginning or (b) no beginning.
2. If it had a beginning, the beginning was either (a) caused or (b) uncaused.
3. If it had a cause, the cause was either (a) personal or (b) not personal
 
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ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
foodcritic said:
For those who forgot what the original discussion was about!!!!!
Here is an outline of the argument:
1. The universe either had (a) a beginning or (b) no beginning.
2. If it had a beginning, the beginning was either (a) caused or (b) uncaused.
3. If it had a cause, the cause was either (a) personal or (b) not personal
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Hey, I'm just bringing in the evidence to properly answer your question, which I'll do now.
1) A
2) A
3) A
 
T

toppick08

Guest
Xaquin44 said:
....

that isn't evidence.
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John 14:6 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
Xaquin said:
Xaquin 14:6 (New Awesomenational Version)
New Awesomenational Version (NAV)
Copyright © 0, 1, 28 by International Awesome Society



6Xaquin answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
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wow.

some written words.

IT MUST BE PROOF!

after all, there is no such thing as fiction ....
 
I

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Xaquin44 said:
I highly doubt that.

edit: in addition, I see that you don't know what 'prove' means.

Prove:

1. to establish the truth or genuineness of, as by evidence or argument: to prove one's claim.
2. Law. to establish the authenticity or validity of (a will); probate.
3. to give demonstration of by action.
4. to subject to a test, experiment, comparison, analysis, or the like, to determine quality, amount, acceptability, characteristics, etc.

the 'evidence' you provide is merely your say so accompanied by an old book.

unfortunatly (for your 'arguments'), neither hold up.

edit again: and remember, very very very VERY few people actually agree on the meaning behind the contents of you book.
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Sadly, it seems to me that the day you die will be the day you see.
#1 says: to establish truth or genuineness of... as BY EVIDENCE...
You & I & nature & the UNIVERSE (for Foodcritic) are EVIDENCE but EVIDENTLY you won't see that. YOU can't show me gravity but you can show me evidence of it's existence. It's the same with God and this is all I'm trying to show you.
Spiritual blindness gets exponentially worse the more you feed it. You getting to the point of hopelessness. Wise up and see the flowers. (they're more EVIDENCE for God).
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
ItalianScallion said:
Sadly, it seems to me that the day you die will be the day you see.
#1 says: to establish truth or genuineness of... as BY EVIDENCE...
You & I & nature & the UNIVERSE (for Foodcritic) are EVIDENCE but EVIDENTLY you won't see that. YOU can't show me gravity but you can show me evidence of it's existence. It's the same with God and this is all I'm trying to show you.
Spiritual blindness gets exponentially worse the more you feed it. You getting to the point of hopelessness. Wise up and see the flowers. (they're more EVIDENCE for God).
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gravity can be tested.

I asked a long time ago on these forums to be shown the test for god, and (imagine this) there wasn't one.

Also, simply existing is no proof of god. It proves we're 'here' and that's about it.

Now we may be here because of god or we may have evolved or space aliens may have deposited us or etc. etc.

There is no direct proof of god or aliens or etc. However, evolution is proven (as has been shown many times on these forums alone).
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
additionaly, all you people who say you have 'evidence' (well .... evidence having some definition that no sane person would recognize) to 'prove' (haha) god do yourselves a disservice any way.

After all, it's it proven then there is no faith.
 
T

toppick08

Guest
Xaquin44 said:
additionaly, all you people who say you have 'evidence' (well .... evidence having some definition that no sane person would recognize) to 'prove' (haha) god do yourselves a disservice any way.

After all, it's it proven then, faith without works is dead......

:fixed:

manhug...:huggy:
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