CRE Are you ready for this?

[hotcoffee]

THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER NOW IS VOTE!​

There are only two days left. Dropping off the ballot only takes a couple of minutes.... the ballot box is directly across the room when you go in the main office door... you time stamp it and drop it into the box....

It's too late to mail the ballots!​

Drop them off in the night slot if you want to go by there tonight or tomorrow night....​

You have to vote tomorrow and Friday if you would like to help decide the race between Jennie and King John....

You can vote Saturday morning about the fee increase questions only....

I just voted for Jennie [June and Jackie are running unopposed so I'll just support them later] and put an x beside all the no answers to both sides of the next ballot page.... You should vote however you choose.... but vote....

Don't forget to put your name and contract number on the outside of the envelope [or on the ballot if you lost the envelope].... they have to check to see if you are a member-in-good-standing....

 

[exnodak]

exnodak, you can always be counted on to check logic. I agree with your numbers, they are as good as any. I was extrapolating from the 2000 census due to the number of households they used.
according to

Chesapeake Ranch Estates-Drum Point, Maryland (MD 20657) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, move, moving, houses news

The Jul 2007 population for 20657 was 13,501. Is it all CRE, probably not. I was making a point that a large population of the county is centered in this zip code.

I have a problem with Calverts way of addressing the community. I feel we do not speak as a community to the commissioners. I do not want to bring up the STD, you know what I mean.

I noticed you did not address the potential gains we could see? In my opinion we are buying homes below market value. The economy will improve (eventually). A ten year plan is what I would like to see. With all of the roads paved, walking trails and etc...

I think it would effect the overall sales in the community.

This has been the conventional wisdom in here for more than 20 years. So long as we keep ourselves wrapped in the identity cloak of CRE, we will never be Calvert county citizens in the Commish's eyes. We will always be just those people in the "Ranch Club" that can continually be fleeced, even by themselves. We need to throw off the cloak in order to flex our overall powers.

 

[Calidreamer]

I've noticed several things about this. It is the same group of people who complain about the CRE board/committees in these forums. If you don't like it MOVE! I was wondering if any of these people have volunteered to run for a board position? Do they even go to meetings? I also noticed that it just depends on where you live in CRE. We didn't even look at a few houses just because we drove by them on our own and the neighbors and surrounding houses just weren't our cup of tea. You learn a lot by doing some stuff without your agent. (back to being an informed buyer)

The issues people have with the CRE board are the same issues that people across this country are having with their HOA. It is always money. It is impossible to please everyone all of the time. I agree CRE could be improved as far as amenities and stuff of that nature but this cannot be done without money. If people aren't paying their fees and fees are kept the same for 10 frickin years how does anyone expect this stuff to be done? Wine on a beer budget I guess...What is wrong with unpaved roads? I know it's messy especially when you wash your car and then someone drives by like a bat out of hell, but I don't think it is the end of the world. The pot holes on my road are filled after it rains.

Also, has anyone found any comparisons between the economy and property values in Calvert or so MD compared to else where in the country? It seems to me that people are working, eating out, shopping, etc. based on the lines at the stores and the wait times at the restaurants. I would be interested to know how we rank...

mama mia,
I would love to move. Actually I did but still had the house here with someone else living in it. But then I had to move back. I would like to know wich bill of mine that you would like me to not pay so that I can pay my hoa dues to a board that squanders my money on stupid stuff like lawsuits and whale bones. My electric bill, water bill, mortage? Would you like to decide which one of my children doesn't get dinner so that I can pay my dues? I was a hardworking american, like so many, who went to work one morning to find I was out of a job. Unemployment only lasts so long. I have applied to literally every job out there that I was even remotely qualified for...and a few that I wan't in hopes that someone would give me a chance. So yes, I complain about this place because I hate it here and I am stuck. I do not go out to eat or shop or anything else. I have a little bit left in savings (as I said I have worked hard for my whole life) but when thats gone...well, you tell me. I am happy that you are happy here. I am happy that maybe we will get some new board members who might do something but I'm not holding my breath. But please don't tell me if I don't like it to move. Its not always as simple as it may seem.

 

[punchbuggy]

Hang in there Calidreamer, many are in the same boat. I really don't believe that the forums make or break folks living here. Let's be honest - the amenities (and fees) were known on my part when I bought here but that wasn't what "sold" me to move here. No forums to get baptized by fire either. We could afford it and were just starting out. The schools were good, great place to raise a family. When I go to sell my house, the big "sell" isn't going to be that my road may be paved one day or the fossils in the cliffs. Our neighborhood isn't all of this b.s. (JMO)

 

[hotcoffee]

CRE is a unique community. We have little houses built as summer fishing cabins in the 60's and 70's to the mansions overlooking the Chesapeake Bay.

All of us share some of the best schools in Maryland. Our property lies within a mile or so from the bay. We are in a rural community, an affordable community in a county that has a high cost of living.

Sometimes I think it's hard for those who have a private plane in the hangar or that spectacular view over the Bay or one of those quiet coves on the lake... to realize that their neighbors are living on a very very tight budget...

Sometimes I think it's hard for those people to grasp the fact that even the "smallest" increase may be catastrophic to a young family or victims of this cruddy ecomony.

Some have been eating with a silver spoon, while others are eating from the spoon donated by SMILE... and we're in the same little community of 3058 homes....

When the economy turns... we might be able to handle an increase... provided the funds are spent to support the common property we are responsible for....

For now... it's important to vote....
Even if your dues are not paid... take that ballot in there, put it under the time stamp.... vote for no dues increase....
Even if it doesn't get counted... it makes a statement.....

VOTE!​

 

[frequentflier]

CRE is a unique community. We have little houses built as summer fishing cabins in the 60's and 70's to the mansions overlooking the Chesapeake Bay.

All of us share some of the best schools in Maryland. Our property lies within a mile or so from the bay. We are in a rural community, an affordable community in a county that has a high cost of living.

Sometimes I think it's hard for those who have a private plane in the hangar or that spectacular view over the Bay or one of those quiet coves on the lake... to realize that their neighbors are living on a very very tight budget...

Sometimes I think it's hard for those people to grasp the fact that even the "smallest" increase may be catastrophic to a young family or victims of this cruddy ecomony.

Some have been eating with a silver spoon, while others are eating from the spoon donated by SMILE... and we're in the same little community of 3058 homes....

When the economy turns... we might be able to handle an increase... provided the funds are spent to support the common property we are responsible for....

For now... it's important to vote....
Even if your dues are not paid... take that ballot in there, put it under the time stamp.... vote for no dues increase....
Even if it doesn't get counted... it makes a statement.....

VOTE!​

Becky, you imply that those people living on the airport are rich. Speaking only for myself, I can tell you that we have the same amount of bills and debt as the next person. Owning an airplane is not much different than owning a boat or motorhome. It is expensive but my husband is a pilot and above everything else like keeping qualified for his job and doing flight instruction (elsewhere) he loves to fly! So we will be lumped into one of your short sighted and biased catagories because of that?
I will be happy to tell you what we (over) paid for our house and how we have spent approx $150,000 on improvements.
Our home is on the airport. We spend our own time and fuel to mow the airport. We pay into a fund that replaces runway lights and signs damaged by *vandals* on a regular basis as well as the mower some of us pitched in the buy for the airport. We spend our free time running kids off the runway and fathers that think it is OK to take their children out there to fly a remote controlled helicopter. People that use this as a putting green. We have cleaned up massive piles of dog poop dumped on the runway that one sick person thought would be fun to watch an airplane land and run off the runway. We have cleaned up the leftovers from a hog roast (including entrails and hooves) next to the runway that was attracting all kinds of critters.
It is a price we pay for living here and it is worth it! Safety, above everything else is paramount. There is a lot of pride in most of the people that live here and most of the community is tight. Before I start getting bashed- I have met our current president 2X. I am not in his pocket. I am, however, a friend and neighbor of Ed Harvey, our last president. I admire his dedication and the amount of time he spent *trying* to make a difference here.
I have an appointment. I am glad they are not checking my blood pressure because I would probably be hospitalized!

 

[stsssn]

All, The POACRE fees that are not being paid today are the same fees that were no being paid in 2007. What I mean by this is 25% of the community was not paying fees when the economy was good.

Estimated median household income in 2007: $82,091 (it was $56,904 in 2000)
Residents with income below the poverty level in 2007:
This place: 4.8%
Whole state: 8.5%
reference: Chesapeake Ranch Estates-Drum Point, Maryland (MD 20657) Detailed Profile - relocation, real estate, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, move, moving, houses news

What is poverty? Ref: 2009 Federal Poverty Guidelines
our average household is 3 persons, poverty = $18,310
That is roughly 192 households in POACRE.

Our fees are less than $400 a year. That is 2% of the poverty level income. Roughly $31 dollars a month.

25% are not paying. That is roughly 1000 households. So have we taken a turn for the worse in the economy since 2007. Sure, but what is unemployment
Ref:
FDIC: RECON - Report for County Overview

It has increased in this area from 3.2% to 5.7%. Numbers are roughly 4900 people out of a job in Calvert since 08. We are 12-17% of County. That makes 480-680 residents in POACRE out of a job recently. Assuming the typical even distribution.

Based on these estimates one could conclude that in 2009 we are going to see a reduction of fee receipts by 571 households or 25% increasing to 39%. A 14% drop in receipts will effect this community, significantly. This is a worst case scenario. I am sure some that lost their jobs were already not paying.

What would paving the roads and doing projects in the community bring us?
It will employ the local paving companies creating jobs. It would increase home values down the road. A $5000 investment by all homeowners would produce $20 Mil. With the SHUR and current STD over ten years would produce another $20 Mil, = $40 Mil. Ten years down the road if the improvements in the community could increase home values by even 10% it would be median of $31,000. That is a good return on investment. One that I would willingly make.

 

[thatguy]

Becky, you imply that those people living on the airport are rich. Speaking only for myself, I can tell you that we have the same amount of bills and debt as the next person. Owning an airplane is not much different than owning a boat or motorhome. It is expensive but my husband is a pilot and above everything else like keeping qualified for his job and doing flight instruction (elsewhere) he loves to fly! So we will be lumped into one of your short sighted and biased catagories because of that?
I will be happy to tell you what we (over) paid for our house and how we have spent approx $150,000 on improvements.
Our home is on the airport. We spend our own time and fuel to mow the airport. We pay into a fund that replaces runway lights and signs damaged by *vandals* on a regular basis as well as the mower some of us pitched in the buy for the airport. We spend our free time running kids off the runway and fathers that think it is OK to take their children out there to fly a remote controlled helicopter. People that use this as a putting green. We have cleaned up massive piles of dog poop dumped on the runway that one sick person thought would be fun to watch an airplane land and run off the runway. We have cleaned up the leftovers from a hog roast (including entrails and hooves) next to the runway that was attracting all kinds of critters.
It is a price we pay for living here and it is worth it! Safety, above everything else is paramount. There is a lot of pride in most of the people that live here and most of the community is tight. Before I start getting bashed- I have met our current president 2X. I am not in his pocket. I am, however, a friend and neighbor of Ed Harvey, our last president. I admire his dedication and the amount of time he spent *trying* to make a difference here.
I have an appointment. I am glad they are not checking my blood pressure because I would probably be hospitalized!

and there is the problem, the airport is common propert that cannot be used by the majority of the residents. Absolutely $0 should be spent by the association to keep this ammenity up until all of the other ones are at 100%.

Otherwise, we should start charging fees like a normal civilian airport would. you know, storage and usage fees.
It really isn't right that only a handful of people are allowed to use the airport, and that even when it is not being used other members in good standing cant use our common space for activitys like flying kites or playing with remote control airplanes and such. A real solution would be to have the airport only operational on a few days a week and allow the rest of us to use it at all other times.

 

[stsssn]

wow Thatguy, I think you should put common sense aside. It will get you nowhere. This is what is causing the meltdown with membership. Different fee rates, amenity rules, STD, whale bones, some roads paved and some not etc.. are all minority issues. They get all of the attention. Someone wants to use the airport for other than defined uses it is a problem. Who defined these uses, the airport "people". The same can be said for all issues in POACRE. A minority, vocal group sets the agenda.

Most people do not care until it directly effects them. Then they care allot. I think the airport is a great amenity and probably brought all those people to live here. I do not want to take anything away from them. But how do we address the issues of fairness. The airport and any other minority issue will loose once people stir enough hostility against that group. This is the modas operandi of CRE and is what is causing the problems.

How can I agree with both you and frequentflier. I think you are both right. If you follow the current CRE logic you should get on the board and change the rules. That is what we have been doing for years. I would say that does not work based on the results.

As soon as you accomplish your agenda someone else will attempt to accomplish theirs ad infinitum.

This is an interesting problem.

 

[hotcoffee]

For now... it's important to vote....
Even if your dues are not paid... take that ballot in there, put it under the time stamp....
Even if it doesn't get counted... it makes a statement.....

VOTE!​

CRE members.... all CRE members .... should begin by voting....

Or that's my opinion....

 

[Mama_Mia08]

mama mia,
I would love to move. Actually I did but still had the house here with someone else living in it. But then I had to move back. I would like to know wich bill of mine that you would like me to not pay so that I can pay my hoa dues to a board that squanders my money on stupid stuff like lawsuits and whale bones. My electric bill, water bill, mortage? Would you like to decide which one of my children doesn't get dinner so that I can pay my dues? I was a hardworking american, like so many, who went to work one morning to find I was out of a job. Unemployment only lasts so long. I have applied to literally every job out there that I was even remotely qualified for...and a few that I wan't in hopes that someone would give me a chance. So yes, I complain about this place because I hate it here and I am stuck. I do not go out to eat or shop or anything else. I have a little bit left in savings (as I said I have worked hard for my whole life) but when thats gone...well, you tell me. I am happy that you are happy here. I am happy that maybe we will get some new board members who might do something but I'm not holding my breath. But please don't tell me if I don't like it to move. Its not always as simple as it may seem.

Yes, I agree it's not that simple for everyone. I asked in my original post if the people who complain are running for board positions or attend meetings. That question was answered. I realize everyone has a different situation and I am sure there is going to be a time where I become frustrated with something here at CRE. I just moved here and some have been here a long time. I actually like reading some of the posts because it gives me incite on what is going on. My main point that I was trying to get across was these issues are happening all across the country in other HOA's. That's it.

I am sorry that your situation is the way it is, I have been there before a few years back and was a single parent at the time. I hope it gets better for you.

 

[Mama_Mia08]

and there is the problem, the airport is common propert that cannot be used by the majority of the residents. Absolutely $0 should be spent by the association to keep this ammenity up until all of the other ones are at 100%.

Otherwise, we should start charging fees like a normal civilian airport would. you know, storage and usage fees.
It really isn't right that only a handful of people are allowed to use the airport, and that even when it is not being used other members in good standing cant use our common space for activitys like flying kites or playing with remote control airplanes and such. A real solution would be to have the airport only operational on a few days a week and allow the rest of us to use it at all other times.

I can see your point but on the other hand I can see the frustrations that the people who have the planes are experiencing. They bought their own mower, clean up literally sh** left by some smart a** vandals, etc. They are paying dues like most other people AND contributing additional time and money to keep things cleaned up in that area. Honestly, I would try to catch the little bastards on camera that are vandalizing and turn them in to the cops and fight to make the vandals have to clean up around CRE on a daily basis. Anyway, what would happen if someone was trying to land or taxi their plane and something were to happen like a kid getting hit or someone crashing trying to avoid hitting someone? I know the likely hood of that type of thing is slim but it COULD happen and the pilot of the plane would be held accountable.

I DO agree that there should be an open grass space available for members so they can fly remote air planes, kites, etc. My daughter LOVES kite flying and we always have gone to the park for this. If there was a space here for that it would be great. I have never been to the beaches here yet, is there places there to fly a kite or something?

 

[Mama_Mia08]

No need to apologize. I agree that allot do complain. Most that complain are at the meetings and running for the board. Maybe all of them.

Whale bones.....You bring up Whale bones and I bring up STD....

That is what drives the community crazy. Right or wrong I think is based on opinion. Unless exonodak wins the lawsuit. Then I will be on his side.

I am glad to hear that the people who complain and bring up the issues are actually running for board positions and attending meetings. It shows they are about taking action and not just running their mouths. LOL, the only reason I said whale bones was because it was one of the things I learned about through these forums before we bought here. I learned other things to but at the time my daughter was talking to me and that was the only thing I could think of at the time.

I am still trying to understand some of the issues at hand. I don't ever want to vote for anything until I actually know what is going on. How do they come up with the fees to begin with? Our past HOA fees were based on the size of our home and property, where it was located in the community, etc. The booklet that was given to me when we got our decals states that homeowners pay a certain amount and tenants pay a certain amount. So all homeowners pay the same amount???? I originally thought the people who own the larger houses with water views paid more then someone who doesn't...

 

[stsssn]

I am glad to hear that the people who complain and bring up the issues are actually running for board positions and attending meetings. It shows they are about taking action and not just running their mouths. LOL, the only reason I said whale bones was because it was one of the things I learned about through these forums before we bought here. I learned other things to but at the time my daughter was talking to me and that was the only thing I could think of at the time.

I am still trying to understand some of the issues at hand. I don't ever want to vote for anything until I actually know what is going on. How do they come up with the fees to begin with? Our past HOA fees were based on the size of our home and property, where it was located in the community, etc. The booklet that was given to me when we got our decals states that homeowners pay a certain amount and tenants pay a certain amount. So all homeowners pay the same amount???? I originally thought the people who own the larger houses with water views paid more then someone who doesn't...

Tough questions. You may not like the answers. Do you know you are also paying an STD (special tax district) which is about $250 on top of your property tax each year? This is not presented to homeowners when the decide to purchase here, to my knowledge. There are fee differences but not how you would think. I would recommend reading exonodak's brief he has online. Legal speak but interesting. I am sure he would give out the link again.

 

[Mama_Mia08]

I lived in CRE for about a year. I offered to get some businesses to offset the cost of producing; printing and mailing their newsletter in return for ad space in the newsletter. They told me "They couldn't afford to do the newsletter". Well, Duh Beavis.. it wouldn't have cost them anything if they had allowed some businesses to advertise and pay the costs associated.

That was a great idea. I worked for a non-profit and we did this exact thing. One of our contributors was a printing company and they printed about 4K newsletters in color for a VERY low cost as long as we put their ad on the back. It's obvious to me now that the board needs some creative thinkers.

 

[exnodak]

Tough questions. You may not like the answers. Do you know you are also paying an STD (special tax district) which is about $250 on top of your property tax each year? This is not presented to homeowners when the decide to purchase here, to my knowledge. There are fee differences but not how you would think. I would recommend reading exonodak's brief he has online. Legal speak but interesting. I am sure he would give out the link again.

Gladly.

Information on POACRE- Chesapeake Ranch Estates Community- POACRE Covenant Brief

For those just joining the CRE community, this is required reading.

 

[Mama_Mia08]

Tough questions. You may not like the answers. Do you know you are also paying an STD (special tax district) which is about $250 on top of your property tax each year? This is not presented to homeowners when the decide to purchase here, to my knowledge. There are fee differences but not how you would think. I would recommend reading exonodak's brief he has online. Legal speak but interesting. I am sure he would give out the link again.

We were told about the special taxing district. We were also told we could send in an application for the homestead tax credit after we've lived here for 12 months to get some money off of our taxes. They gave us the application and pamphlet at closing. I am still trying to understand what type of taxes are reduced with this.

We were blessed because the Realtor and title company we worked with were VERY good at what they do. I will look for the link you are referring to.

 

[ladyhawk]

I apologize if I came across as saying everyone complains. I don't complain and some others don't either so that isn't everyone. Al Gore invented the internet? Huh, I'll look that up...

Anyway, what I was getting at is there is a select group of individuals who come to the public forum and complain about CRE. It is always the same issues and same arguments. I said these people should step up and take action in addition to their forum posts. I admit, I've learned a thing or 2 from reading the posts. I would have never known about the 10,000, 5,000, or however old the thing is whale fossil. So I'm not trying to imply they shouldn't complain on the forum. It just seems like the same old song and dance after awhile...that's all.

There are a few of us including me that have served on the board on and off over the years. We attend meetings when we can but if I was recently on the board, I don't because it has an appearance that I want to "interfere". When I hear rumor and inuendo of things that are going on, I tend to "show up" again...

Recently there was a rumor regarding certain members of the board blocking some of those volunteering to run. And yes, they tried that but lost. This board does not have the control they think they do. They don't have the authority to prevent a member, whose fees are paid, from running for a position on the board. That is up to the membership when they vote. They also do not have the authority to prevent us from being in the forums.

We have a forum for the poacre site but for whatever reason, we are not permitted to use it? If it were available, I would still be in here for those members who have not paid their fees. They have every right to know whats going on as those that have.

I stand my ground, I speak up and I will not be intimidated by threats. Legal or otherwise...

June

 

[ohsnoes]

The members who live on the airport maintain airport grounds. If you need a helo to fly you or a loved one out of CRE, there is a means to do so. They also hold events for kids to take rides in the airplanes free of charge.

I don't live on the airport but I think it is a valuable asset. If you want to point to waste, then look to the campgrounds operating at a $12K loss, or frivolous lawsuits without end, or a general manager who does a crappy job yet draws a salary and lives in a CRE house for free.

The ballfields at the garden area may be able to accommodate people who wish to fly remote airplanes. It's not safe to "play" on the airport for obvious reasons.

And I really hope Eney loses so the CRE can move forward in a more positive direction.

 

[ladyhawk]

wow Thatguy, I think you should put common sense aside. It will get you nowhere. This is what is causing the meltdown with membership. Different fee rates, amenity rules, STD, whale bones, some roads paved and some not etc.. are all minority issues. They get all of the attention. Someone wants to use the airport for other than defined uses it is a problem. Who defined these uses, the airport "people". The same can be said for all issues in POACRE. A minority, vocal group sets the agenda.

Actually it is the FAA that defines the use of the airport. It is for the safety of the aircraft, pilots, their passengers as well as to those on the ground. This is why when a vandal is caught at the airport, they can be charged federally... At least this is what I understood. So, If FrequentFlier reads this I'm sure he can either correct me or agree with me, whichever the case may be...

Most people do not care until it directly effects them. Then they care allot. I think the airport is a great amenity and probably brought all those people to live here. I do not want to take anything away from them. But how do we address the issues of fairness. The airport and any other minority issue will loose once people stir enough hostility against that group. This is the modas operandi of CRE and is what is causing the problems.

The one thing that the airport started was the Open House. They provide rides to the members and their children. My husband also does so. A tank of gas for our plane is aobut $200.00, we fuel up in the morning and again about midway through the day. We do not charge and money donated helps cover the costs of the food, drinks and other costs associated with it.
The reason they did this was to try to educate the members while providing some type of service that would help create a more positive attitude about the airport. The only problem I have is this one person, he is heavy and intentionally steps on the "No Step". I've watched him do this and was quite upset by it. He was very careful to STEP on the "No step". This could have caused an accident which was why the pilot, took the plane alone and then chose to not fly the rest of the day. He did not want to risk taking someone up and something happening. I knew people would understand.
And in case you (the person who stepped on the "no step") are reading this, I will be wating for you this year and it will be up to the pilot if you get to fly or not.... I have not forgotten who you are!

How can I agree with both you and frequentflier. I think you are right. If you follow the current CRE logic you should get on the board and change the rules. That is what we have been doing for years. I would say that does not work based on the results.

As soon as you accomplish your agenda someone else will attempt to accomplish theirs ad infinitum.

This is an interesting problem.

I had to put my two cents in...

June