David's Challenge on Tolerance...

[Midnightrider]

So therefore it's OK to encourage the children by having open Homosexual role models.
It don't bother me either. What bothers me is the open flaunting and the encouraging of young un molded minds.
Countless times I have heard women make remarks of how Gays can do this or that better or excel more than heterosexual men. Encouragement to young ears!

Sexual preference is not a race of people, but yet it is treated as racism.
Why ? Who cares that someone is Gay, I wouldn't know if they were or not. But noooo they insist upon telling me. So why do they have to broadcast it?

Funny thing about human behavior. Fact ! When a person knowingly is doing wrong, they will constantly think of every angle to justify their action to easy their conscience. Then after doing so long enough, they actual believe it to be so.
This is my theory of why gays need to flaunt..To reinforce their need to justify a wrongful un natural act to ease their conscience.

you know, i don't see gays out there openly flaunting their lifestyle. in fact its mostly hidden, therefore the term "in the closet"
And what is wrong with having people of all different types as role models? I don't think anything less of ellen degenres because shes gay, and in my mind she doesn't flaunt it, any more than heteros do. To me she would be a role model for comedians that aren't that funny....

 

[FromTexas]

you know, i don't see gays out there openly flaunting their lifestyle. in fact its mostly hidden, therefore the term "in the closet"
And what is wrong with having people of all different types as role models? I don't think anything less of ellen degenres because shes gay, and in my mind she doesn't flaunt it, any more than heteros do. To me she would be a role model for comedians that aren't that funny....

I think less of Ellen Degeneres because she is often not funny and sucks as an actress; not because she is gay. Although, I do give her points for Anne Heche.

 

[supersurfer]

So, don't throw up the straw man of thinking men when you are talking morals and religion.

You should meet my friend Phil Armenik.

Bruthers, sisters, and apostrates,

This is no suprize to me amen. These librales at TTU have been gong down hill for very long time. Theyve been letting students in with there New American Satanic Bile and Not Inspired Versions and New King James Perversions for yeres now. There disrepectful to Dr Roberson and have gone over to reprobate mind with Falwell and that crowd amen. Theyve let there girls where pants like hussies amen and there boys walk in with tattos and rings on like a bunch of hippies from San Fransissy-co. Theyve come long way down hill ever since the 1970s when they let in the leaven of fundamentalism and there professors started translating the New King Jimmy. Thats what happens when you mess with the King James Amen.

The Suthron so called Baptists will be buying out TTU and Hiland Park Baptist church any time now. They already let the likes of Falwell and Tim Lee and other compromizers preech there. And you mark her down that Johnny Pope will be Presdent of the SBC for too long. He sold out Dr Hiles for the big money at PCC and it wont be long till hes too big for them and goes on Larry King Live with Bob Jones and these other pink pantyhose whering feel good "preachers". The King James Bible says that in the last days that men shall wax worst and worst and heap on teacers with itching ears and teaching grate swelling words of vanity. You skolars can find that in your Skofeld Bible on pages 1283 and 1319. The rest of you probably read Alexandran perverson like all the librale seminary boys do that dont have those verses in it and you wont understand what the big deal is becuse you dont know your Bible.

__________________
Evanglist Bro. Dr. Phil Armenik, Moe.D., D.D., D.Min, D.I.P., Th.D., Ph.D., D.Litt, D.Hum.

King James Only, Pretriblatonal, Premilenniall, Dispensatonal, High Standards, Soul Winning, Hell Fire and Brimestone Preachig, Baptist Brider

 

[bresamil]

No offense to those that have voiced their thoughts, but isn't this thread supposed to be just Hessian and David, similar to the exclusive debate between Larry and rraley in politics several months ago? I was looking forward to reading the exchange between the two of them.

 

[supersurfer]

I'd rather see them take it to fight club!

 

[FromTexas]

You should meet my friend Phil Armenik.

I give you reasoned debate on why you can't make an argument on smarts based on belief and you throw up another straw man. Obviously, you are the one lacking higher reasoning.

 

[Hessian]

I have made a portion of my case...

but David seems to be kept busy putting out fires on other threads.

I REALLY want this kept within the Religious theme...
How tolerant should Christians be?
How much compromise should be allowed?
What does scripture say about both questions...?
Some claim I can't debate at all...um, debate does not mean I have to apologize and compromise on every post...to find some warm fuzzy middle ground.

I pulled some scripture...IN CONTEXT
I've have dealt with the "thou shalt not judge" claims.
I've insisted that unless one is exposed to the law and the due punishment,
people will assume they are generally good (when in reality: NO ONE is good)
AND...if we are not permitted to point out what is wrong in society...then few will ever ask for repentence...and thus accept grace.

And society will embrace all moral "lines" as gray zones that can be altered at a whim. The only things truly "wrong"-----will be those who still cling to traditional moral standards,..those intolerant, narrow, unprogressive, ignorant, uninlightened, "non-thinking" types...

Today, the other term used for them are: Evangelical Christians.

 

[supersurfer]

I give you reasoned debate on why you can't make an argument on smarts based on belief and you throw up another straw man. Obviously, you are the one lacking higher reasoning.

Okay, here goes.

Also, the morality of homosexuality outside of religion is decided not on thinking. It is decided on emotion. Either you believe or do not believe that it is acceptable. Your belief is not dictated by scientific proofs and proven theories... all you have is your feelings on whether they are doing wrong or not.

I disagree. The view of homosexuality inside of religion may be based on emotion, because it goes against their morals. However, outside of religion, science is finding DNA that links to sexual orientation.

So, don't throw up the straw man of thinking men when you are talking morals and religion. They are fluid and guided by societys feelings and viewpoints on a subject at the time. They hardly ever change because there is some great scientific proof that doing it one way or the other is better. Therefore, none of those decisions can be said to make one a thinker or not a thinker.

Looks like we agree, eh?

 

[FromTexas]

Okay, here goes.

I disagree. The view of homosexuality inside of religion may be based on emotion, because it goes against their morals. However, outside of religion, science is finding DNA that links to sexual orientation.

They have also shown that there are certain DNA traits to child molesters. That doesn't make it right. The DNA is not the argument. It is what is viewed as socially acceptable or unacceptable based on peoples emotions/feelings for whatever reason they have.

Looks like we agree, eh?

That applies to having your belief of they way it should be, too. So, no, you did not agree. If you saw it my way you would not have kept trying to make a point out of whether it was thinking or non-thinking mans. Not thinking applies to non-belief, as well.

But hey, I can play your straw man game to. Do you consider Einstein a thinker? How about Calvin?

 

[Hessian]

Quick note...

I have STILL been unable to given ANY Kharma from my Home computer and


I have not sent any red Kharma since September. So...find somebody else to accuse & ponder.

PS: Good Kharma has been sent from my work computer...

 

[harleygirl]

I REALLY want this kept within the Religious theme...
How tolerant should Christians be?
How much compromise should be allowed?
What does scripture say about both questions...?
Some claim I can't debate at all...um, debate does not mean I have to apologize and compromise on every post...to find some warm fuzzy middle ground.

Hessien, I wish I could keep my mouth shut......

But my fav bible quote-"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"

Did you ever think that if God did not make homosexuals they would not exist?

 

[supersurfer]

Not sure that anyone accused you of giving the red karma, but maybe I missed that.

Don't be so defensive.

 

[bresamil]

I have STILL been unable to given ANY Kharma from my Home computer and


I have not sent any red Kharma since September. So...find somebody else to accuse & ponder.

PS: Good Kharma has been sent from my work computer...

I had no doubt you were not the sender of the my red karma.

 

[supersurfer]

I REALLY want this kept within the Religious theme...
What does scripture say about both questions...?

I pulled some scripture...IN CONTEXT
I've have dealt with the "thou shalt not judge" claims.

First you would have to prove to me that the scriptures are reliable before I would accept them as proof.

But since you view the scriptures as an authority.....

Do you think any one sin is worse than another in the eyes of "God"?

 

[harleygirl]

I have STILL been unable to given ANY Kharma from my Home computer and


I have not sent any red Kharma since September. So...find somebody else to accuse & ponder.

PS: Good Kharma has been sent from my work computer...

Not from the Bible , but good quotes nevertheless:

Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
— Jesus (from the Bible, Matthew 22:39)


The highest result of education is tolerance."
— Helen Keller, American social activist, public speaker and author (1880-1868)

"Perhaps the most important thing we can undertake toward the reduction of fear is make it easier for people to accept themselves, to like themselves."
— Bonaro Overstreet, American poet and psychologist (1902-1985)


Civilizations should be measured by "the degree of diversity attained and the degree of unity retained."
— W.H. Auden, English poet (1907-1973)


“Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up.”
— Jesse Jackson, American political activist and preacher (b. 1941)


“We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.”
— Jonathan Swift, English satirist (1667-1745)


“Prejudice is the child of ignorance.”
— William Hazlitt, English essayist and literary critic (1778-1830)

 

[supersurfer]

They have also shown that there are certain DNA traits to child molesters. That doesn't make it right. The DNA is not the argument. It is what is viewed as socially acceptable or unacceptable based on peoples emotions/feelings for whatever reason they have.

Where in my statement, that "Christianity is not a thinking man's religion", did I say anything about what is socially right or wrong? Maybe I should have said that there aren't freethinkers in religion?


Religious people tend to buy into what is fed to them from the pulpit. They don't think freely, they follow, usually blindly.


Looks like you are pretty good at building your own strawmen.

 

[Hessian]

2 excellent questions:

Harleygirl ...
"But my fav bible quote-"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself"

and Supersurfer...
"Do you think any one sin is worse than another in the eyes of "God"?

Harley...right after that Christ tells the parable of the Good Samaritan.(Luke 10:27....) when he is confronted with the question..."Who is my neighbor?"
You certainly know the story of the Good Samaritan: He saw someone in serious need and met his physical and economic needs.
Every day Christians & Churches fulfill this role: Soup kitchens, Prison Fellowships, orphanages, schools, Samaritan's purse-sends millions of packages to needy around the world.
So what is the biggest need projected by Active homosexuals?
Acceptance. Affirmation.Reassurance that they are living an acceptable lifestyle.
Should Christians then give them what they need? (along with offering counseling, health clinics, etc)

NO...if we want them to get their lives right: we don't encourage them to continue in their lust...we stress what lies ahead...
*the higher suicide rates, *the diseases, *the emotional scars on families, *the suspicion at work...
But to complicate things further many want to change the church and church doctrine to match up with thier deviance--this is heresy. Christ and the Apostles have some dire warnings to those who wish to twist scripture or continue fornicating and imasculate themselves.
All we can do is pass along those warnings and support those who have left homosexuality.

and Supersurfer...
"Do you think any one sin is worse than another in the eyes of "God"?

That is an interesting question...certainly all sin is not welcome in God's presence and it would appear that the OT had a variety of penalties for a variety of sins. Scripture does list a series of forgivable sins but also lists one that cannot be forgiven.
In other points, Paul says..."may it not be found among you." Does that mean they lose their salvation if it is found????? No..especially if one asks to repent.

I Think 2ndAmendment would give you a fuller discussion on that question.


and yes...If God calls something an "abomination" thousands of years ago...it is still an abomination today-He never Changes.

 

[FromTexas]

Where in my statement, that "Christianity is not a thinking man's religion", did I say anything about what is socially right or wrong? Maybe I should have said that there aren't freethinkers in religion?


Religious people tend to buy into what is fed to them from the pulpit. They don't think freely, they follow, usually blindly.


Looks like you are pretty good at building your own strawmen.

If this is going over your head, I can slow it down for you. I showed that whether you believe homosexuality is good or bad, it isn't based on whether you are a "thinking man". You think the social norm should be complete acceptance of homosexuality. Your claim implies that is because you are a "thinking man", "freethinker", but that is hardly the truth with social norms and peoples perceptions of what should or should not fall under them. You are no more a "thinker" for why you believe homosexuality is okay than someone else is a "thinker" for believing the opposite.

Now you are on "freethinker" ... I will address that, as well. We just need to reverse your argument. You are a kool-aid drinking follower of the liberal agenda and not thinking for yourself. See? You aren't a "thinker" either. I could just as easily suggest your ideas is what the DU, or whatever liberal source, feeds you the information you seek.

So, where was my straw man again? I am not seeing any of these "freethinking", "thinking man" skills you are implying you would possess.

 

[Hessian]

Harley...regarding those quotes:

You discriminate don't you?
You are intolerant of certain things arent you?
You show prejudice every day in some way right?

Now before I give you examples....I'll let you find some examples on your own. Does that mean you are uneducated, hateful, and living in fear?

NOT at All. We all practice those three things on different levels. The confusion rests on how MUCH we tolerate/discriminate/ or show prejudice toward.

 

[Esprix]

If God calls something an "abomination" thousands of years ago...it is still an abomination today-He never Changes.

So you agree with the following things that were clearly stated in the Bible as acceptable:

- No sex during menstruation
- Adulterers must be put to death
- Nudity in private is shameful
- Polygamy and concubinage are perfectly acceptable
- A widow must bear a male heir with one of her husband's brothers
- Women are property
- Bodily functions are unclean
- Jews must only marry within the 12 tribes of Isreal
- Divorces should not be allowed
- Celibacy is abnormal
- Slavery is acceptable
- If a woman intervenes while her husband is being beaten, her hand should be cut off

Why do these things get a free pass now?

Also, do you regularly admonish everyone who's ever gotten a divorce? Do you think adulterers should be allowed a place in society? Stealing is in the 10 commandments - why aren't you out there picketing prisons to have thieves put to death? Have you ever lied in your life?

If no one sin is any worse than another, it makes sense to me you should worry about your own state of affairs before sticking your nose into others'. Just a thought.

Esprix