Democratic Presidential Candidates

MGKrebs

endangered species
I've thought about this a lot since the election (the dem "position".) Here is why I am discouraged.

My perception is that as the years go by, national candidates must be more and more "photogenic", and it becomes more important to have a simple message without negativity or details. Republicans have essentially been speaking with one voice for the past several years. With repubs, you pretty much know what you are going to get; lower taxes, focus on security, smaller government/less waste, and support for businesses. My feeling is that repub candidates avoid talking about how to acheive these thngs, or what they will cost, or what the tradeoff is. They are concepts that we know they will try to address, but we have to trust them to find a way.

Dems, on the other hand, by DEFINITION, do not speak with one voice. Candidates are all over the place on various issues. Voters have to pay attention a little more to each individual candidate to see what they are about. Also, nobody would disagree with the repub "concepts". But by articulating these ideas consistently, repubs make it seem like they are republican issues. Democrats are left trying to explain how we can have security (for example), but it's going to cost a lot of money. Nobody wants to hear that, and repubs then get to say that dems just want to spend money all the time. Or that we can make life easier for companies, but at the expense of the environment or worker safety. And then repubs say that dems are hindering businesses.

So, since repubs are all on the same page policy-wise, we only have to choose the one we "like" the most. And since whatever message any particular dem is pushing is somewhat complicated, most voters will also just try to pick a candidate they "like", without getting too deep into the issues.

There's only a small percentage of voters who are "in play", that is, are willing to vote for either party. I think most people who pay attention to politics already know where they are philosophically, so they already lean towards one party or the other. Therefore, I believe that most "swing" voters don't want to be bothered too much by politics, and will be swayed by intangible things like looks, personality, and the way they are presented by the press.

So, a good dem candidate would have to have some compelling issue to make sure that the base actually goes and votes, plus, they must look good, speak well, and have no significant negatives, to get the swingers to vote for them. This is very hard when the repubs have simple, emotional policies that really cannot be argued with. If the dems let them get away with not having to explain the trade-offs and costs, they can't win. But the voters who can be persuaded don't want to hear all that negativity, and the dems end up sounding like they are against everything.

I believe this is the legacy of Newt Gingrich. Politically, it's genius. Consistent, simple message, can't be argued with in principle, only in the details or application. My problem with it is that I think that in the long term, it does a disservice to voters by obscuring what we have to give up in order to get the things that are promised. I think repubs are essentially saying, "if you vote repub, here's what you get. Trust us to make it happen so that you won't feel any pain. " And if you didn't pay too much attention to politics, how could you NOT vote for the guy who is promising less crime and lower taxes? EVERYBODY can relate to the prospect of lower taxes, but almost nobody thinks that THEY will be affected by less government services. And everybody wants less crime and a good business climate, but very few think they will be affected by an erosion of civil rights, degradation of the environment, less worker safety, or war.

So I don't have much hope for 04. But by '08, after 8 years of repub policies, (especially if there is a repub congress), we will see what we have wrought.

My time is up. You've been very kind. Please stick around for Thin Lizzy.
 
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MGKrebs

endangered species
I found this tidbit in a story today about the stimulus package:

"At an American Economic Assn. meeting Friday in Washington, Stanford economist Robert E. Hall said the cut would represent an important step in shifting the nation's tax system away from its reliance on income.

Conservatives have long sought such a shift on grounds it would make the economy more efficient. Liberals and moderates have opposed it because it would require jettisoning the nation's long-held belief that the rich should bear a heavier burden of taxes than the rest of the nation.

Hall wryly counseled the White House to not dwell on the debatable details of how the dividend tax cut would help, and "just say it is good."

I rest my case.
 

demsformd

New Member
Krebs, you may some valid points in your posts but I cannot sell into your vision of politics because well it is just too depressing for me. As a Democrat, I hold an idealistic belief that people understand the issues of the day and that they will vote for the substantive party. This belief was not true in the past presidential or mid-term election, but I still feel that people truly understand complex issues. I feel that the only reason that the Democratic Party has failed the last two times is not because of a conservative feeling in America but because our strategy just sucks. We are taking a simple message and giving far too many complexitites that are not needed.

I see a glimmer of hope for the Democrats though. First of all, history is in our favor; the last father-son president tandem (the Adams') both served one term and John Q., the son, won his first election without the popular vote. While the mid-terms were overall a bad day for the party, we understood where we failed and the gain for the Republicans were minimal. We won the runoff in Louisiana a month later although the president campaigned for Mary Landrieu's rival. Bush's approval rating is down in the middle 50s, which is 40 points lower than his father's was at this point. While polls show that the public support the Iraqi war, a majority still believe that it must be mulitlateral action. The economy is on the same track as it was during the early 90s with unemployment increasing and all of the negatives that the older Bush had to live are haunting his son, especially the feeling that Bush does not care about ordinary folks. And, no president that was elected without the popular vote was ever able to win reelection. Unlike 1992, prominent Democrats are coming out to run for the nomination and the Republicans are afraid, especially of Edwards because he is a newcomer. Yesterday they published a document full of misinformation that called Edwards a liberal and was tremendously negative. This negative this early just makes me think that the Bushes are scarred stiff.
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
They may be scared...

...but that's normal for them, and to make everybody else feel scared too.

I share your faith in the American people. I just think that because of several situations that have come together right now: complacency due to the good times of the Clinton years, being turned off due to the viscious attacks of the Clinton years, and the terrorist attacks, the climate has not been right for anything but support for the easiest choices. Can this change over the next two years? maybe.
 

JabbaJawz

Be about it
Websites

Can anyone recommend a site that will provide good background on each potential candidate without being biased? I haven't been very involved with politics in the past, but want to become involved enough to learn about the candidates, what they represent, etc... so that I can make good, well thought out decisions at the polls.

Thanks in advance.
 

smcdem

New Member
John Kerry has the advantage when it comes to international relations than any other Dem. Voters will put that skill high on their list, therefore they will put Kerry high on their list.:biggrin: Lauren, check out http://www.politics1.com/ it is really good. Darn back to chemistry homework yuck break is over!:bawl:
 

demsformd

New Member
Oh, let me tell you, I can't wait for Al Sharpton to start giving his views. It would so sooo great. I don't think that a candidate could ever energize me this much. (sarcasm just dripping out of me)

Gephardt is gonna run for sure now. I cannot stand this guy and he is such a camleon, I cannot trust his positions. Helped pass the Reagan tax cut, now attacks all tax cuts. And he could not energize Democrats to take the house back. I would never vote for him either.
 
H

Heretic

Guest
laureng- as far as non-biased political sites your out of luck. Now as far as balanced you may check out www.msnbc.com or even www.foxnews.com

Some say foxnews is conservative balanced but they always have a democrat for every republican giving their insites. I also find their coverage more of a common sense brand of reporting rather than a sensationalized point of view.
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
Originally posted by smcdem
Darn back to chemistry homework yuck break is over!:bawl:

:rolleyes: Boy - you don't know how lucky you have it. You didn't get to have Brother Rom teach Chemistry! Those were the days when things were tough!
 

Oz

You're all F'in Mad...
I thought I would add that you really cannot find an unbiased site. You will have to take what you can find, and draw your own conclusions. The folks here have pointed you to good sites, but they each have their bias. Just learn as much as you can from various sources, and go from there.
 

SmallTown

Football season!
Originally posted by Oz
I thought I would add that you really cannot find an unbiased site. You will have to take what you can find, and draw your own conclusions. The folks here have pointed you to good sites, but they each have their bias. Just learn as much as you can from various sources, and go from there.

I just listen to the little voices in my head. They seem pretty unbiased :biggrin:
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Did anyone see Oliver North’s commentary in the Washington Times? http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20030105-16080938.htm

It seems that Hillary is killing all these other candidates by a 2.5:1 margin according to two separate polls. Why isn’t the party leadership actively pursuing what seems to be their strongest candidate? Have the Democrats already written off 2004?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
The Boys Are Back In Town my nod to Thin Lizzy

I feel sorry for Gephardt - he should have had a decent run by now but he keeps getting screwed out of it by his own party. What's the problem? He's towed the party line; he's been a good boy; he's had leadership positions. I personally think he's the best of a bad lot.

Kerry - fageddaboudit. He's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too liberal. Not to mention that his own wife doesn't acknowledge him.

Edwards - recovering trial lawyer. Nuff said.

Sharpton - bwa-hahahahahahahahahaha! Tawana Brawley. Nuff said about him, too.

Your designated hitter will come from nowhere - mark my words. And it will be none of the above. And Bush will spank him and send him home. Remember you heard it here first.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
To Ken:

The Democrats promote a woman for President!?! Perish the thought! Next you'll be wondering why they don't hitch their wagon to a gay or a black. :duh:

The first female or black President will be a Republican - remember you heard that here first, too.
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
Basically I just think the democrats are in disarray right now. They don't know which way to turn or what to do. The moderates may have had a hand in convincing Gore not to run, and then they turn around and elect Pelosi as their Senate leader, and I think she is perceived as being pretty liberal.

I haven't seen the Ollie piece, but I have seen other polls that say the same thing, and I don't get it. I don't have any idea where she is on any national issue, except that she spoke out against the war resolution, but then voted for it. In any event, she is a polarizing personality. I can't see any way she could win in '04. Those polls must be basically just name recognition at this point.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Vraiblonde,

I was just amazed at the results of those polls and wondered why a party would choose not to put their constituents favorite out there or are they waiting until Iowa? So you think the gender of the majority will elect one of their own to the Presidency, when?
 

demsformd

New Member
The reason that Hillary is winning among Democrats is because of name recognition and nothing else. Hillary cannot win a national election because the nation is not ready for a woman president and neither are they ready for another Clinton term.
 
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