C
czygvtwkr
Guest
....you are going to hell?
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
He's been wrong many times before, so why is today any different? Did he say this word for word? What were his exact words?
Club'nBabySeals
Where are my pants?
He said that salvation can only be achieved through the Catholic Church because of Apostolic lineage.
well, it was obiously in another language but he did say that in so many words.
from washingtonpost.com
Vatican says other Christian churches "wounded"
By Phil Stewart
Reuters
Tuesday, July 10, 2007; 12:07 PM
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican said on Tuesday Christian denominations outside Roman Catholicism were not full churches of Jesus Christ.
Protestant leaders said this was offensive and would hurt inter-denominational dialogue.
A 16-page document by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict once headed, described Christian Orthodox churches as true churches, but suffering from a "wound" since they do not recognize the primacy of Pope.
But the document said the "wound is still more profound" in Protestant denominations.
"Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress ... it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'Church' could possibly be attributed to them," it said.
Ah, this shouldn't come at a suprise, they don't recognise 'the pope' and don't pay into his coffers. Of course he's going to use fear to try to convert more to be catholics... Guess the pope needs a new pair of shoes or something
from washingtonpost.com
Vatican says other Christian churches "wounded"
By Phil Stewart
Reuters
Tuesday, July 10, 2007; 12:07 PM
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican said on Tuesday Christian denominations outside Roman Catholicism were not full churches of Jesus Christ.
Protestant leaders said this was offensive and would hurt inter-denominational dialogue.
A 16-page document by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Pope Benedict once headed, described Christian Orthodox churches as true churches, but suffering from a "wound" since they do not recognize the primacy of Pope.
But the document said the "wound is still more profound" in Protestant denominations.
"Despite the fact that this teaching has created no little distress ... it is nevertheless difficult to see how the title of 'Church' could possibly be attributed to them," it said.
Ah, this shouldn't come at a suprise, they don't recognise 'the pope' and don't pay into his coffers. Of course he's going to use fear to try to convert more to be catholics... Guess the pope needs a new pair of shoes or something
JPC sr
James P. Cusick Sr.
Scofflaw and Personal Responsibility.
Even if the Pope had said such a foolish thing then still nobody goes to any place of torture as is falsely called "hell".
The Bible words for hell only meant the common grave. Dead and buried.
The true message of the Bible is that Christ paid the price in full for all of the whole world for everybody everywhere throughout all times.
Everybody gets saved in the end, in fact everybody has salvation now because Christ already paid the price in full.
..................................... Unconditional love. 
czygvtwkr said:
Even if the Pope had said such a foolish thing then still nobody goes to any place of torture as is falsely called "hell".The Bible words for hell only meant the common grave. Dead and buried.
The true message of the Bible is that Christ paid the price in full for all of the whole world for everybody everywhere throughout all times.
Everybody gets saved in the end, in fact everybody has salvation now because Christ already paid the price in full.
..................................... Unconditional love. ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
No salvation except through the Catholic church?
Not full churches of Jesus Christ?
Wounded unless they recognize the pope?
The catholic church has SOME good folks in it but their leadership is one step away from being a cult. They believe in the true God in one breath but they deny Him in another. Doctrines like; Worship of Mary OVER Jesus, priests forgiving sins, praying to the dead, purgatory, calling the pope "holy father" (a title reserved for God the Father ONLY), and baptizing babies to wash away original sin are all denying the power of God and giving it to someone else. These are satanic heresies as are JPC's previous statements. I say all this just to point out the truth, not as hatred towards catholics. Each of the above can be refuted with the Bible, so they are not my own opinions. This is what happens when people BILNDLY believe what they are told and don't do the research.
Not full churches of Jesus Christ?
Wounded unless they recognize the pope?
The catholic church has SOME good folks in it but their leadership is one step away from being a cult. They believe in the true God in one breath but they deny Him in another. Doctrines like; Worship of Mary OVER Jesus, priests forgiving sins, praying to the dead, purgatory, calling the pope "holy father" (a title reserved for God the Father ONLY), and baptizing babies to wash away original sin are all denying the power of God and giving it to someone else. These are satanic heresies as are JPC's previous statements. I say all this just to point out the truth, not as hatred towards catholics. Each of the above can be refuted with the Bible, so they are not my own opinions. This is what happens when people BILNDLY believe what they are told and don't do the research.
K
Kain99
Guest
Hasn't the Catholic Church always said this? :scratcheshead:
Toxick
Splat
ItalianScallion said:
I've never seen a Catholic worship Mary over Jesus, and I've been in a Catholic church or two. For that matter, I've never seen a Catholic worship Mary at all.
ItalianScallion said:
Are you talking about prayers to Saints? So what.
Unless you equate prayer with worship. Which I do not. I heartily say that prayer is not tantamount to worship, although it could be used for that purpose. Praying is simply asking for intervention on your behalf.
ItalianScallion said:
Didn't they just do away with this belief? I could have sworn I've heard (somewhat recently) the catholic church said something like, "Yeah, about that purgatory thing... forget it, it's crap."
I could be wrong.
ItalianScallion said:
Where does God reserve this title?
ItalianScallion said:
I see no correlation between baptism and denying the power of God in any way.
There's plenty of things that the Catholic Church does that flies in the face of Biblical text ... like requiring priests to be celibate, etc. ... but the issues you site seem kind of petty and misdirected.
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Toxick
Splat
JPC sr said:
The Bible words for hell only meant the common grave. Dead and buried.
Thanks for clearing that up Reverend.
What's the real translation of Revelation 20:15?
Inquiring minds want to know.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
There is what I'm talking about. Hail Mary, Holy Mary MOTHER OF GOD! This is blapshemy that most catholics don't see. If God had a mother, then He had a beginning. Statues of Mary EVERYWHERE, masses & may processions worshipping her. HELLO!Toxick said:
Right, but God says you don't ask dead people, who can't hear you anyway, to intervene in anything. Read Deuteronomy 18v10 & Isaiah 8v19Toxick said:
Matthew 23v9 & John 17v11Toxick said:
Catholics are told that baptism forgives sin but the truth is that ONLY God forgives sin and he does it when we ask Christ into our hearts, not when we are baptized. Mark 2v7Toxick said:
Nothing is petty when it is heresy. If you & I differ on what we believe the age of the earth is, that's petty. The things I mentioned above are not. They are serious heresies. We can differ on lots of our beliefs but not on the "primary" or salvation issues and who God is.Toxick said:
Toxick
Splat
ItalianScallion said:
I don't see it either.
Given: Mary = Mother of Jesus.
Given: Jesus = God...
Ergo: Mary = Mother of God :. quod erat demonstrandum.
But if you want to harp on that, a more appropriate complaint would be the insanely tedious repetition of "Hail Marys" on the rosary because prayer by rote is explicitly discouraged in the bible.
ItalianScallion said:
I think she's quite deserving of the respect shown to her. I would still say that none of this consitutes worship. I have little statues all over my house. Everytime someone dies, there's a procession... I think you're reading too much into the Catholic esteem of Mary.
ItalianScallion said:
This is kind of a stretch. I hardly think that whispering "St. Christopher protect me" or "St. Mary pray for me" constitutes wizardry and witchcraft and convening with the dead, which the contexts of those two passages imply.
'Sides, those are Old Testament rules.
ItalianScallion said:
The Holy Father thing... you might have a point here.
However, I'd have to read them more thoroughly later. I call my father my father, and I refer to my ancestors as my fathers. We refer to America's Founding Fathers, etc... I'm pretty sure that none of this is considered heresy.
Perhaps the qualifier "Holy" in Holy Father might shove it over the line, but I'm not sure.
ItalianScallion said:
Then I wouldn't be harping on Baptism, I'd be more concerned with Confession.
Although I was of the understanding that with both baptism and confession the priest was not the forgiving force. God is.
ItalianScallion said:
Maybe petty was the wrong word. It just seems to me that you're harping on things which could be construed as harmless, or are based on close judgement calls, while there are things, much larger more blatent things going on.
And I'd be loathe to use the word 'heresy' or 'blasphemy'. Heresy and Blasphemy seem to me to be deliberate willful acts of spite against God which come from the heart, whereas most Catholics who engage in the above behavior aren't deliberatly opposing or antogonizing God; they just haven't taken the time to read and/or understand the bible they proclaim to follow.
That's the real crime, IMO.
PsyOps
Pixelated
You still don't get it do you?JPC sr said:
The Bible words for hell only meant the common grave. Dead and buried.
The true message of the Bible is that Christ paid the price in full for all of the whole world for everybody everywhere throughout all times.
Everybody gets saved in the end, in fact everybody has salvation now because Christ already paid the price in full.
Luke 13:23-28
jetmonkey said:
For all I know he said the moon is made of green cheese. I am not Catholic, but the Catholic church only follows his credibility in matters pertaining to the church - when he speaks "ex cathedra".
Mind you, I don't believe what they believe - but I understand it.
I don't get why people fuss over a group claiming to be the only way. In some fashion or another - most of 'em do. Protestant Christians are less so than Catholic, but there are Christian religions that a lot of them do not tolerate as "Christian". For example when I was going to church, I generally heard that Catholics were apostate, pagan and going to hell. That Mormons weren't Christian at all. That Unitarians were going to hell but it didn't matter because they didn't believe in it anyway. Jews were going to hell, but only if they didn't embrace Jesus (which they don't). Most of the more unusual American "Christian" groups - Christian Science, Adventists, JW's - they're all messed up one way or another.
And of course, anyone who ain't Christian is hell bound, but don't say that too loudly because the Muslims won't be happy about that.
Don't even get started on Muslims. They're already determined to wipe out anyone who isn't Muslim. Jews feel the same way about their chosen status, except they don't see the need to kill anyone, since everyone else is "Gentile" and they're all hell fodder anyway.
Eastern religions are slightly nicer about it. If you don't believe as they do, maybe you'll return as a cockroach - or just keep being reborn because, well, basically you're too stupid to "get it". You're unenlightened. Killing you won't change anything.
Tinkerbell
Baby blues
In order to understand why Mary is the Mother of God, you have to understand and believe in the Holy Trinity. This is one thing that is different than other churches. The Catholic Church believes in a Holy Trinity: The Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy spirit. It's hard to explain the Holy Trinity, because they are three but one - not three seperate "people" but one person who resides in three ways - kind of. The best way to even begin to try and understand it is: a family of three people is still just one family. It's considered a Holy Mystery in the Catholic Church. We do not know or understand the ways of God. We simply have to have faith in things and the mysteries are what they are: mysteries. We aren't meant to understand.buddy999 said:
Italian Stallion >> You need to educate yourself more on the Catholic Church. You really are taking alot out of context. Toxick has done a good job setting you straight on some of your misunderstandings about the Catholic Church. Heck, it's possibly the most misunderstood Church in the world.
Just know, 99% of Catholics mean no harm, they are just doing what they think is best. They are just practicing their faith in their way. You are upset at the Pope's remarks condemning other Churches, then don't be like him and condemn the Catholic Church. It makes you no better. I think the Pope maybe shouldn't have said that. If nothing else, Jesus teaches us that the most important thing is to love one another. No matter what. And tolerance, Jesus teaches us that too.
The congregation of the Catholic Church just want to admire and love God. Yeah, there's a bunch of idiots in the administration of the church that sometimes forget it's not a business, and they say and do things they shouldn't and get involved a little too much in politics. They aren't perfect - NO ONE IS. Misguided a bit, yeah, but human too! They aggravate me too - and I'm a Catholic. Sometimes I wish the Catholic Church would just worry about the faith, God, etc. and stop with press releases and junk.
brendar buhl
Doesn't seem Christian
I'd be lining-up with Toxic here. Many protestants only understand Catholicism as viewed through the lens of Protestantism. If you know any Catholics who are serious about their faith, it is worth while to sit down with them and discuss the differences. I have found that there is much common ground. I feel that I understand why the Catholic Church holds the beliefs that it holds. I don't hold those same beliefs but I understand them and do not consider them heresy.
Tinkerbell
Baby blues
OH! I just remembered a joke on this topic:
"A jewish man died and went to heaven. When he got to the gates, St. Peter looked him up in his book and said, "Go straight down the hallway to room number 4. BUT, when you pass room number 1, be VERY quiet. That's where the Catholics are and they think they are the only ones here."
I just HAD to share. And I'm Catholic, so I'm allowed. 
"A jewish man died and went to heaven. When he got to the gates, St. Peter looked him up in his book and said, "Go straight down the hallway to room number 4. BUT, when you pass room number 1, be VERY quiet. That's where the Catholics are and they think they are the only ones here."
I just HAD to share. And I'm Catholic, so I'm allowed.