Disrespect

[BernieP]

I would imagine that the anonymous poster either doesn't share the opinion that their behavior is inappropriate OR is of the opinion that "digging up the past" is totally worth the negative judgement.

Although, I'm beginning to agree with the saying "trying to understand people is like trying to smell the number 9".

What is it specifically that bothers you about their bringing up the past?

Try this school of thought. The deceased is not reading, they are not offended. Rather family and loved ones, who are well aware of the deceased wrongs find it offensive in their time of mourning. You may not like what a family member has done, but for a parent, that person is still your child and the loss hurts. You don't really want to have their past dug up and smeared across the internet.

What I think the OP is referring to is the propensity for some to read an obit and then use that to berate the dead.

If you all don't have a least one black sheep in your family, you are either a nun or an alien.

 

[mamatutu]

Try this school of thought. The deceased is not reading, they are not offended. Rather family and loved ones, who are well aware of the deceased wrongs find it offensive in their time of mourning. You may not like what a family member has done, but for a parent, that person is still your child and the loss hurts. You don't really want to have their past dug up and smeared across the internet.

What I think the OP is referring to is the propensity for some to read an obit and then use that to berate the dead.

If you all don't have a least one black sheep in your family, you are either a nun or an alien.

Agree. Morbid comes to mind. The person is dead. You have to wonder about the living that make disrespectful comments. It says volumes about the people posting such comments. You would think these posters are glad to be alive, and didn't have the life of the deceased, that they, obviously, think was unacceptable. Hypocrites.

 

[vraiblonde]

You don't really want to have their past dug up and smeared across the internet.

Tough ####. Own your behavior. Own the life you lived. If family members don't like having their loved one's crappy deeds splashed all over the internet, they should have tried harder to help them stop being a ####head. We polish way too many turds in this country; if you call a turd a turd, there are any number of people who will jump up and down about your "insensitivity" and "callousness"...because you dared to call something what it is.

When a person has spent their life impacting others negatively through criminal behavior, I do not feel one bit sorry for them when they are eulogized as such.

 

[MarieB]

Tough ####. Own your behavior. Own the life you lived. If family members don't like having their loved one's crappy deeds splashed all over the internet, they should have tried harder to help them stop being a ####head. We polish way too many turds in this country; if you call a turd a turd, there are any number of people who will jump up and down about your "insensitivity" and "callousness"...because you dared to call something what it is.

When a person has spent their life impacting others negatively through criminal behavior, I do not feel one bit sorry for them when they are eulogized as such.

So, all of a sudden you feel that people don't have personal responsibility? It's the family's fault for "not trying harder ?" Maybe they did


I can understand why say victims would feel disgusted by obits, etc. but there is a time and place. Often people see these people at their best when they die - parents see them as the 5 year old who played in the dirt and not the addict that spiraled out of control

 

[vraiblonde]

So, all of a sudden you feel that people don't have personal responsibility? It's the family's fault for "not trying harder ?" Maybe they did


I can understand why say victims would feel disgusted by obits, etc. but there is a time and place. Often people see these people at their best when they die - parents see them as the 5 year old who played in the dirt and not the addict that spiraled out of control

You know, there is a part of me that does blame family and friends who don't want to tough love someone, yet want to keen and attention whore when that person finally dies or gets busted and goes to prison. I wouldn't stand by and watch someone I loved spiral into addiction, or engage in criminal behavior. And I definitely wouldn't make excuses for them.

I've known parents who did everything right by their kids, only to have one kid go off the rails and become a dirtbag. They don't get defensive; they acknowledge the behavior and wonder if/where they went wrong.

Only people who know they're in the wrong say dumb things like, "don't judge." What they mean to say is, "I don't want to own my behavior and I wish you would stop pointing it out to me." You reap what you sow.

 

[mamatutu]

So, all of a sudden you feel that people don't have personal responsibility? It's the family's fault for "not trying harder ?" Maybe they did


I can understand why say victims would feel disgusted by obits, etc. but there is a time and place. Often people see these people at their best when they die - parents see them as the 5 year old who played in the dirt and not the addict that spiraled out of control

Good point. Families of a deceased person that did not lead the model life are suffering, twice. I would venture to bet that more families, than not, tried to help/support the 'wayward' loved one in life, and are grieving more because they question if there was anything more they could have done to save/change their loved one's life, so to speak.

 

[mamatutu]

You know, there is a part of me that does blame family and friends who don't want to tough love someone, yet want to keen and attention whore when that person finally dies or gets busted and goes to prison. I wouldn't stand by and watch someone I loved spiral into addiction, or engage in criminal behavior. And I definitely wouldn't make excuses for them.

I've known parents who did everything right by their kids, only to have one kid go off the rails and become a dirtbag. They don't get defensive; they acknowledge the behavior and wonder if/where they went wrong.

Only people who know they're in the wrong say dumb things like, "don't judge." What they mean to say is, "I don't want to own my behavior and I wish you would stop pointing it out to me." You reap what you sow.

You would make an awesome judge. I am not kidding; you should run! However, more prisons would have to be built. But, at the same time, doesn't it go back to if you haven't experienced the situation, how can you really know what has gone on (this was a topic in another recent thread). There is no black and white about life; it is gray.

 

[Hank]

You know, there is a part of me that does blame family and friends who don't want to tough love someone, yet want to keen and attention whore when that person finally dies or gets busted and goes to prison. I wouldn't stand by and watch someone I loved spiral into addiction, or engage in criminal behavior. And I definitely wouldn't make excuses for them.

I went through this with a family member. She was spiraling out of control. As a relative and someone that loved her unconditionally, I felt responsible to help her out and do whatever I could to straighten out this crooked path she chose. She is now 4 years sober and I would do it all over again!

 

[MarieB]

You know, there is a part of me that does blame family and friends who don't want to tough love someone, yet want to keen and attention whore when that person finally dies or gets busted and goes to prison. I wouldn't stand by and watch someone I loved spiral into addiction, or engage in criminal behavior. And I definitely wouldn't make excuses for them.

I've known parents who did everything right by their kids, only to have one kid go off the rails and become a dirtbag. They don't get defensive; they acknowledge the behavior and wonder if/where they went wrong.

Only people who know they're in the wrong say dumb things like, "don't judge." What they mean to say is, "I don't want to own my behavior and I wish you would stop pointing it out to me." You reap what you sow.

I understand that there are families who "help" someone continue his/her behavior (there is a fine line there when you consider the "help" aspect)

And there are families who do what they can - most people don't know what the family has done.

In the end it's hard ####. Acknowledging the behavior doesn't mean that you aren't hurting that your kid is gone forever. Forever, and you aren't thinking about the bad times at that point.

And again, how is it about "my own behavior?" The person is dead. Who is reaping what?

Sorry, but I find you very hypocritical with your position on this issue as opposed to what you say your beliefs are.

And again, time and place. Aren't people taught how to act in public anymore? Right, it's ok of it's anonymous.

I hate people


Edit to add :bigsmile: When I said I hate people, i wasn't specifically referring to yiu vrai. My husband and I say this quite often

 

[RoseRed]

 

[mamatutu]

Yes, the deceased created the storm/havoc, but the surviving family is creating the rain/tears. Why would a family be held responsible for the demise of a family member?

 

[vraiblonde]

However, more prisons would have to be built.

No, they wouldn't.

 

[mamatutu]

No, they wouldn't.

I can't believe I forgot about your method of judicial justice! That was a serious, And, I thought I had it all covered!

 

[MarieB]

Good point. Families of a deceased person that did not lead the model life are suffering, twice. I would venture to bet that more families, than not, tried to help/support the 'wayward' loved one in life, and are grieving more because they question if there was anything more they could have done to save/change their loved one's life, so to speak.

Sometimes their "help" is enabling, so I understand the questioning aspect out of all of this

 

[inkah]

You know, there is a part of me that does blame family and friends who don't want to tough love someone, yet want to keen and attention whore when that person finally dies or gets busted and goes to prison. I wouldn't stand by and watch someone I loved spiral into addiction, or engage in criminal behavior. And I definitely wouldn't make excuses for them.

I've known parents who did everything right by their kids, only to have one kid go off the rails and become a dirtbag. They don't get defensive; they acknowledge the behavior and wonder if/where they went wrong.

Only people who know they're in the wrong say dumb things like, "don't judge." What they mean to say is, "I don't want to own my behavior and I wish you would stop pointing it out to me." You reap what you sow.

You wouldn't stand by and watch. Ok. What would you do?

I wonder if you think your tough love would make a difference. (Honest question)

And I wonder what you would do with your broken heart.

 

[kwillia]

Sometimes their "help" is enabling, so I understand the questioning aspect out of all of this

Exactly. Thank you for pointing that out... not all "help" is beneficial.

 

[vraiblonde]

Edit to add :bigsmile: When I said I hate people, i wasn't specifically referring to yiu vrai. My husband and I say this quite often

I know - I say it, too, and mean it just the way you presented it. No offense taken.

Marie, you are one of the few people on here whose opinion I respect, even though I don't often agree with you. So:

Sorry, but I find you very hypocritical with your position on this issue as opposed to what you say your beliefs are.

Explain, please?

So many times - I've seen it on here and in real life - the parents were inattentive lazy aholes who wanted to cover up and make excuses while their kid went off the deep end. They didn't give a tinker's damn about that kid...until he died or went inside and they could use that opportunity to get attention and sympathy.

I've also know parents who you cannot fault for their kid going off the reservation. People I've known intimately and even lived with, so I know first-hand that their son or daughter's addiction and criminality wasn't enabled by them in any way.

When you see this outpouring of "look at me! " from a deceased dirtbag's family members, you can pretty much figure them for the former. The latter wouldn't be commenting and making a big show on a website because they would be genuinely brokenhearted and regretful.

 

[Hank]

You wouldn't stand by and watch. Ok. What would you do?

I wonder if you think your tough love would make a difference. (Honest question)

ohhhhhh... I can answer! Pick me, Pick me!

Tough love does make a difference, sorry!

Problem is and I witnessed this first hand by going to meeting after meeting w/ my loved one. 75% of the people in rehab had zero family/friend support. You have to create a team of people to help someone out. A lot of tears, ultimatums, soul searching is involved in this process. It's not easy, trust me. It was probably one of the hardest years of my life and I wasn't the addict. By creating this "team", first it shows your loved one that they are important and loved and they will not be alone during this grueling process of reaching sobriety.

 

[vraiblonde]

I wonder if you think your tough love would make a difference. (Honest question)

Tough love is the preeminent method in most treatment centers, so we know that it does make a difference. Or can, if the addict wants to get clean.

If they don't, there's nothing you can do except not enable it or be a party to it. That's what they teach you in Al-Anon - the addict must own their behavior and you must not enable them or let them make it your fault. Don't fight their battles for them, don't give them money, don't support their addiction, make them work for their own life and own it.

 

[acommondisaster]

We all have our failings. Once a person is gone, those failings cease to matter. But we ought to not bully those left behind, who, despite that person's failings, still found something about them to love. We should all have someone who loves us. What good does it do to air that dirty laundry?


We can do "The Innuendo"
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry! ~Don Henley~