This_person
Well-Known Member
Not sure what this means, but I hope it made you feel good!
Does God Hide Himself?
- Thread starter onel0126
- Start date
Radiant1
Soul Probe
But then I also deal with theologians and not protestant grocers-turned-preachers more, so hell if I know what you bunch of freaking heretics get up to in your Germanic squalor.
Wow. That was said with the zeal and vehemence of a ROCOR bishop!
TheLibertonian
New Member
Wow. That was said with the zeal and vehemence of a ROCOR bishop!
That's like the first time I've seen someone on these forums acknowledge something other then protestant and Catholics exist.
I like to make jokes as if it's still the 1500's. Because I'm a neeeeeerd.
cheezgrits
Thought pirate
You posted "to be accurate"...I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just asking you to clarify, which you did. You are stating your perspective. I respect that and thank you for it. And you have me mistaken, obviously, I don't try to disprove anything about christianity. I have stated what I don't believe or agree with, but like you said, that's perspective.
And I never called you out personally about being one of those "christians", so perhaps one doth protest too loudly. If the shoe fits I suppose.
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Some of us are aware of who or who does not have Apostolic succession, and the various theological and/or liturgical differences/similarities of the rites thereof. It just happens that if an Orthodox exists on this forum they don't speak up. Having any of the Orthodox or Eastern Uniate Catholics in the mix would certainly make things interesting!
PsyOps
Pixelated
You posted:
... which had nothing to do with what was posted prior or thereafter in regards to the topic. You posted this in direct response to my post. You did call me out personally ("why do you christians - you even quoted the word 'christian' as if to question that I am a christian), along with all other Christians that dare challenge non-believers that come into this part of the forum tell us how wrong we are for believing in a fantasy. I'm really not trying to be argumentative with you on this - I'd much rather just discuss the topic at hand. But you went there.
ProximaCentauri
Member
Yes, a sad commentary on the human race that it’s the 21st century and yet these primitive tribal belief systems, that is to say religions, continue to divide much of the world, potentially endangering the survival or our species down the road. Of note, is that in the western ‘civilized’ world, the US is by far the most religious of all the western nations. But not to worry, we’re the ‘good’ guys. The ‘one true creator of the universe’ is on our side.
ProximaCentauri
Member
Hmmm, invisible gods and invisible oxygen? Of course, oxygen is only transparent in the gaseous state - it's visible in the liquid and solid state.
But oxygen is of the physical universe, while the Christian god is of the metaphysical. Oxygen is obviously necessary for human life, the other??
Yes, if the atmosphere of the earth were to suddenly and inexplicably become oxygen-deficient for human life, the human species would indeed be in trouble. On the other hand, if invisible god(s) were found to be nonexistent, human life would be unaffected.
Therefore, it follows that we should continue to focus on the expansion of our knowledge of the natural world and universe, of which elemental oxygen is just one small part of. Any time spent on the supernatural, focused on the existence of a 'god' for which there is no evidence, is effectually, a waste of the oxygen you're breathing. Thank-you for your assistance in making this point.
cheezgrits
Thought pirate
Fair enough, now settle down, I'm not nor never have tried to tell anyone they are wrong. And I was speaking about "christians" as a whole. Don't flatter yourself that I think that much of you to single you out to spend my thinking energy on. Now carry on.
TheLibertonian
New Member
Yes, a sad commentary on the human race that it’s the 21st century and yet these primitive tribal belief systems, that is to say religions, continue to divide much of the world, potentially endangering the survival or our species down the road. Of note, is that in the western ‘civilized’ world, the US is by far the most religious of all the western nations. But not to worry, we’re the ‘good’ guys. The ‘one true creator of the universe’ is on our side.
And when you have scientifically proven the existence of love, justice, law, and all the other things based purely on belief, I'm sure scientism will have its place.
But in truth, humans need belief. It's a requirement. Whether that is in god or science doesn't matter; the important thing is that we believe in something. Even Nietzche understood that, possibly better then anyone. That at the very least, man must believe in man.
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Yes, a sad commentary on the human race that it’s the 21st century and yet these primitive tribal belief systems, that is to say religions, continue to divide much of the world, potentially endangering the survival or our species down the road. Of note, is that in the western ‘civilized’ world, the US is by far the most religious of all the western nations. But not to worry, we’re the ‘good’ guys. The ‘one true creator of the universe’ is on our side.
The nature of human kind is what is divisive; envy, lust, greed, etc. If you think a world without religion is a world more unified, then I think you're being rather foolish and naive.
ProximaCentauri
Member
Good people will be good and bad people will be bad, with or without religion. But when religious convictions result in burning people alive or severing their heads - as christians and muslims have done for the better part of the last millenia - then the seemingly harmless naivety of belief in an imaginary deity, has metamorphosed into an evil and deadly one.
Everyone has their naive blind spots and biases. Mythical belief systems are the greatest hindrance to eliminating them.
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Would you agree that such things have also been done outside of religious beliefs (Roman crucifixions or the killing fields of the Kmer Rouge for example)? And if you agree, then would you also agree that political and/or cultural convictions are evil and deadly? I'm pretty sure we have posted in this forum before the stats of deaths as a result of religious and non-religious entities with the non-religious numbers far greater. Although I could be wrong, if I recall correctly you participated in that thread, so although not surprising it's disappointing that you are still falling back on your atheist knee-jerk reaction. Religion is guilty of its fair share, but only it's fair share, and it's share isn't half the size you seem to think it is. In fact, it could be argued that without religion the world would be even worse, but that's neither here nor there.
"Religion is the result of all evil in the world" is atheist drivel that is repeated ad nauseam by those who don't investigate the facts and therefore don't know what the #### they are talking about. Really PC, by all means go ahead and dream of your brave new world sans religion, but for the love of truth don't base that dream on erroneous reasons.
ProximaCentauri
Member
Rad1, your entire post is a strawman argument. Suggest you re-read what I posted, I think you'll find that I've said none of the things you're using here for your strawman. And you're even dredging up something you think that I posted in an old thread. All this along with a condescending tone thrown in for good measure.
Feel free to argue against what I've actually posted. Or not. But suggest you have a glass of wine or something. As for me, I'm enjoying a scotch.
Just to keep you Secular-humanists on track......hmmmmmmm
http://popten.net/2010/05/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/
http://popten.net/2010/05/top-ten-most-evil-dictators-of-all-time-in-order-of-kill-count/
This_person
Well-Known Member
I was actually just responding to the invisible part. As I believe something exists outside of our known universe, I find it inconceivable that we will ever be able to prove a negative, that some form of what we call God doesn't exist. If you can conceive of the test which could be conducted, I would love to hear it!Hmmm, invisible gods and invisible oxygen? Of course, oxygen is only transparent in the gaseous state - it's visible in the liquid and solid state.
But oxygen is of the physical universe, while the Christian god is of the metaphysical. Oxygen is obviously necessary for human life, the other??
Yes, if the atmosphere of the earth were to suddenly and inexplicably become oxygen-deficient for human life, the human species would indeed be in trouble. On the other hand, if invisible god(s) were found to be nonexistent, human life would be unaffected.
Therefore, it follows that we should continue to focus on the expansion of our knowledge of the natural world and universe, of which elemental oxygen is just one small part of. Any time spent on the supernatural, focused on the existence of a 'god' for which there is no evidence, is effectually, a waste of the oxygen you're breathing. Thank-you for your assistance in making this point.
So, from my point of view, we would not exist without God. As God has repeatedly interacted with mankind in documented ways, God's existence is at least partially in the physical the way oxygen is. Without oxygen there would be no human life; without God there would be no universe.
However, I fully agree we should continue to expand our knowledge. The vast majority of the time that is good.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Please provide the objective standard which defines the actions you described as either good or evil. I would love to be taught what eternal and objective (not social norms) standards exist.
littlelady
God bless the USA
I wanted to reply on this thread again. First, I would like to say that I am not as knowledgeable on the subject as most of y'all are, and I tend to be very simplistic in how I view things. As far as does God hide? He does not hide from those that choose to believe, and have faith. However, I believe that belief and faith should be a personal and private thing. Religion should not factor into how people in the world relate to each other, and, for certain not be why there is hatred, war, and murder. God (whichever one you worship) is not hiding. He is there watching, and I imagine at this point is very disappointed in the behavior of Man.
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Rad1, your entire post is a strawman argument. Suggest you re-read what I posted, I think you'll find that I've said none of the things you're using here for your strawman. And you're even dredging up something you think that I posted in an old thread. All this along with a condescending tone thrown in for good measure.
Feel free to argue against what I've actually posted. Or not. But suggest you have a glass of wine or something. As for me, I'm enjoying a scotch.
Although I don't think it's as cut and dry as you seem to think nor have I personally ever portrayed religion or even my God as strictly benign, you're right and I apologize. I went off on a tangent.
Trust me, I don't need a glass of wine, that stuff gives me a headache. What I need is a good long vacation somewhere exotic and far away. I hope your scotch was of good quality.
ProximaCentauri
Member
Although I don't think it's as cut and dry as you seem to think nor have I personally ever portrayed religion or even my God as strictly benign, you're right and I apologize. I went off on a tangent.
Trust me, I don't need a glass of wine, that stuff gives me a headache. What I need is a good long vacation somewhere exotic and far away. I hope your scotch was of good quality.
No worries, happens to us all and I am not without 'sin'. No, I don't think it's cut and dry, I see both sides believe it or not, but I realize that it's hard to get that from my posts.
Macallan is my usual but I think some Talisker might be good for this cold weather. Too bad about your headache problem, I wouldn't know what to drink with a good meal if I couldn't drink wine. Here's wishing you get your exotic vacation soon!
