Does Islam preach Hate?

[Kyle]

I just have to...

624
Muhammad (pbuh) defeats the Quraysh tribe at the battle of Badr.
630
Muhammad (pbuh) leads his followers to the conquest of Mecca.
Abu Bakr (573-634), father in law of the Prophet (pbuh), becomes leader of the Muslim community, and expands Islam through Arabia and into Iraq and Syria. The riddah wars: local uprisings. Putting these down not only re-united Islam, but won many converts.
Umar 1 (586-644) becomes the Second Caliph, calls himself "commander of the faithful" and consolidates Islam in Syria and Mesopotamia and expands it into Iran and Egypt.
Under Umar Islam becomes a major power and the structure of the Islamic Empire takes shape.
635
Capture of Damascus. Islamic forces defeat the Sasanid empire of ancient Persia at al-Qadisiyah. They begin a programme of converting the people from their state religion of Zoroastrianism, and this ancient religion only survives in small communities in Iran.
638/640
Capture of Jerusalem.
641
Capture of "Cairo".
642
Capture of Alexandria.
643
Capture of Isfahan.
644
Umar is assassinated.
'Uthman ibn 'Affan (?-656) becomes the Third Caliph as a compromise when the more obvious contenders cancel each other out.
'Uthman centralises the administration of the Islamic world.
651
Possible Islamic expedition to China.
656
'Uthman is assassinated by rebellious soldiers.
'Ali Ibn Abu Talib (600-661), cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet, reluctantly becomes the Fourth Caliph.
'Ali was one of the first converts to Islam,and a devoted follower of Muhammad (pbuh). He was responsible for the first chronological version of the Qur'an, and noted for his holiness.
Opposition to 'Ali's right to be Fourth Caliph causes the Islamic World to split into the Sunni and Shi'ite factions.
The Battle of the Camel (December): Beginning of Islam's civil war.
Islamic capital moves to Kufa
657
The Battle of Siffin (May-July): This indecisive battle and the following negotiations lead to the establishment of a rival caliphate, under Mu'awiya (602-680).
The Kharijite Islamic sect breaks away and opposes both Ali and Mu'awiya. They carry out a series of uprisings. The sect survives in a mild form today.
661
'Ali is assassinated and the Caliphate ends.

THE SPLITTING OF ISLAM
START OF THE UMMAYYAD DYNASTY
---------------------------------------------------
The majority group of Muslims follow the Ummayyad leadership, and later become known as the "Sunni" Muslims. Shi'a Muslims remain loyal to 'Ali's descendants, and form a separate religious community.
Mu'awiya is first Ummayyad Caliph
Damascus becomes capital of Islam, and Syria becomes its power-base.
Islam continues to expand.
670
Occupation of Tunisia, control of Kabul in Afghanistan.
691
Dome of the Rock completed in Jerusalem.
698
Capture of Carthage by Ibn an-Nu'man .

Of course this goes on and on… For 14 centurys!

Christ was supposed to have demonstrated the path of Christianity through miracles, i.e. healing blind etc., Charity and compassion.

Mohammed demonstrates his faith by showing and working the sword!

Since the very man who began the religion itself used conquest to spread his religion it’s fairly safe to say that the view of that religion today is completely consistent with it’s history and it's founders principles.

Christianity has a moment in History you keep bringing up. The Inquisition! The Crusades that took back Jerusalem. A few decades out of 20 century’s. The rest of Christianity tends to be boring.

The Hindu’s don’t seem to have this legacy of bloodlust. Since I'm not a student of religion I can't speak about the Buddists Shinto's or whatever other flavor of religions are out there.

 

[Kyle]

Originally posted by jetmonkey
...One battle, ass clowns, one battle. More casualties than both a-bombs together.

Tarawa was really ugly too. Don't remember the final body counts though.

I doubt seriously they'll even read it.

I figure I've wasted my time posting some of this stuff but being an optimist one can only hope they learn to read!

On the plus side pulling a few books off the shelf I hadn't read in years got me out of mowing the lawn yesterday evening!

 

[Kyle]

Originally posted by jetmonkey
... We should fly a load of those turdcutter bombs into Mecca and say 'hey, you bombed the WTC, the holy place of capitalism, take it you f-ers!'

Mecca!...Medina!....Bagdad!....

But you know we wouldn't.

 

[jimmy]

Originally posted by jetmonkey
"When ye encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads until ye make a wide slaughter amoung them."
(Koran 47:4)

You can find similar passages in the Bible (OT). You said Islam was the WORST.

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends Unbelievers (non-Muslims) rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
(Koran 4:144)

What about that whole thing about the different Yokes etc from Christianity? Again...is this worse?

"Thou seest many of them turning in friendship to the Unbelievers (non-Muslims). Evil indeed are (the works) which their souls have sent forward before them (with the result), that Allah's wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide."
(Koran 5:80)


Gee. Sounds a lot like a more directly worded version of the "way the truth and the light" idea from Christianity to me. And, moreover, this is just the 'non-believers will go to hell" idea from many many religions (not just Islam).


"O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
(Koran 5:51)

Again...same ideas as Christianity...

oh yeah, I'm feeling the love here

You're right, you're not. Picking and choosing passages, you can certainly find examples of calls to action in the Koran. Which, and we can debate this for sure, seem AWEFULLY similar to ideas expressed in Christianity.

My opinion is not that religious text cannot, as with just about any piece of written work, be interpreted in different ways, misunderstood, and exploited for someone's own purposes.

My point is just that in many main-stream religious texts (Christian, Jewish, Hindu etc..) you can find passages like this. If you want to argue that RELIGION in GENERAL is dangerous and conflict-ridden when misapplied and, therefore, offers a poor basis for a government, then I'm right with you on that.

However, it was my impression that you were asserting Islam as, somehow, the WORST offender.

 

[jimmy]

So Kyle,

Your history of Islamic battles and conquests and power changes proves....what? That Islamics have had a MORE war torn history than Christians?? That Islamic fighting has LITTLE to do with geography and MUCH MORE to do with the tenents of Islam?

I don't see it doing either.

I see it proving that religion begats violence. I see it proving that that area of the world has been frought with conflict because THREE populous religions ALL lay some sort of divine claim to the same basic areas of land.

I don't see you pointing out why, based on the tenents of Islam, it has proven itself to be a more hateful and evil religion than all others.

 

[jimmy]

Oh and back to this:

"Some Muslims are heretics, okay, what does that have to do with them being evil hate-filled bastards?"

Well, everything. If they are heretics and NOT following the true pillars of Islam (5), then they are really just taking what they will and applying it in a way that suits their purposes. NOT because Islam preaches hate; because that is how THESE muslims would view it.

And Muslims are the only ones guilty of misapplying relgion to advocate hatred?? You really believe that?

 

[Kyle]

Jimmy,


The man that founded the religion demonstrated it's doctrine by his actions! Convert or Die!

No one can make you read or comprehend what you read.

All we can do is lay it out there.

So have a nice day....Continue through life "Blissfully ignorant" after all if you need some history you can always just make it up.

See ya......

 

[jimmy]

Oh and as far as the atom bomb goes (not that this is REALLY the issue, but just a point)

Long term estimates have placed the death tolls at between 150,000-200,000 for EACH bomb. Not to mention all the medical problems and birth defects etc...

AND---these were civilians! Granted, this was WWII and a days, we as 'good americans' are trying to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. And what's wrong with that? With most of our wars being against militant dictators supressing their own people anyway, shouldn't we be as careful as can be allowed??

Yes I believe your numbers are accurate but they only tell a piece of the story and don't take a lot of factors into account....perhaps, though, this is for another thread.

 

[BudoPo]

Actually, during most of its history, Islamic countries were very tolerant of other religions. The religion was often spread militarily, but within the countries Jews, Christians, and Muslims coexisted very well. They were also very advanced during Europe's Dark Ages, rivaling (or surpassing) China. Their libraries were outstanding, and significant advances in science and mathematics were developed in these countries.

The tendancy towards terrorism is a fairly recent phenomena, and a perversion of the religion. And don't forget that the non-Arab Islamic countries (Indoesia, Singapore, etc) behave in a more civilized fashion than their Middle East counterparts.

 

[jimmy]

Yes, the Japanese are a notoriously racist people, it's true.

And, in the context of being at war with the Empire of Japan, and not just a small faction, perhaps a case can be made that dropping the bomb was at least tactically understandable, if not clearly morally justified.

However, this is NOT the situation we're dealing with here. Which country, aside from Iraq (and never mind the fact that there are LARGE segments of Iraqi's that are against Hussein), are we really close to being at war with? Which country does Al Qaida (our current named target) hail from? Afganistan? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Syria? Egypt? Jordan? Where do we start?

It's ridiculous to advocate nuking these countries because factions exist within them that are hostile to the West.

Also, I find it interesting that you would justify the killing of Japanese citizens who are racist, and yet, you spout off an ethnic slur and you have constantly shown religious-racism against Arabs in this thread. You are no different in your false lableing of Arabs as evil, hateful people, than you claim the Japanese to be.

I'm not even gonna try and come up with another kettle/pot/black reference...they're running out...

 

[missi1013]

None of you liberals seem to get it, but I think a lot of the rest of the forum might.

I have noooo clue what you guys are fighting about,
But I know that you guys have been at it for a while!!


Can't we all just get along!!!

 

[AnonymousPenguin]

Does Islam preach hate?...
Well, let's see... I think that most religions...(now or then)... preach hate!!! ... It's sad because you expect religions to be opposite of that. Even tho every religion claims that they are for peace and this and that... hatred seems to be or have been an aspect of many religions... including Christianity.

Often times, religion is used as a means to control or manipulate society... and people fall.

 

[vraiblonde]

Often times, religion is used as a means to control or manipulate society... and people fall.

Ain't THAT the truth? to you Penguin!

 

[PmoneyandTT]

YEP!!!

Allah - is a sun-god

Islam - In the Koran - says to hate Jews
and Christian.

Everyone is an enemy that is not a Muslim

Religion is a Man-Made word..

Here is some information

They say, 'Accept the Jewish or the Christian faith and you shall be
rightly guided.' Say, 'By no means! We believe in the faith of
Abraham, the upright one. He was no idolater.'" (Surah 2:135)



"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)



"Say, 'Obey Allah and the apostle.' If they give no heed, then truly,
Allah does not love the unbelievers." (Surah 3:29)



"If you fear that you cannot treat orphans with fairness, then you may
marry other women that seem good to you: two, three or four of
them." (Surah 4:1)



"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah
4:3)



"Men take authority over women... As for those who are disobedient,
admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (Surah
4:34)



"Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but
wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)



"Will they not ponder on the Koran? if it had not come from God, they
could have surely found in it many contradictions." (Surah 4:82)



"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:104)



"They denied the truth and uttered a monstrous falsehood against
Mary. they declared: 'We have put to death the Messiah, Jesus the
son of Mary, the apostle ofGgod.' they did not kill him, nor did they
crucify him, but they thought they did...they did not slay him for
certain. God lifted him up to him..." (Surah 4:157-158)



"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His
loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah
5:18)



"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah
5:51)



"Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is one of three.' There is but
one God. If they do not desist from so saying, those of them that
disbelieve shall be sternly punished." (Surah 5:73)



"The God will say: 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind
'Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?' 'Glory to You, 'he
will answer, 'how could I ever say that to which I have no right?"
(Surah 5:116)



"If you fear treachery from any of your allies, you may fairly retaliate
by breaking off your treaty with them." (Surah 9:12)



"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews
and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly
subdued." (Surah 9:29)



"The Christians say: The Christ is the son of Allah; these are the
words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who
disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them." (Sura 9:30)



"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal
rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)



"And say: All praise is due to Allah, WHO HAS NOT TAKEN A SON
and WHO HAS NOT A PARTNER in the kingdom."(Sura 17.111)



"'How shall I bear a child,' she [Mary] answered, 'when I am a
virgin...?' 'Such is the will of the Lord,' he replied. 'That is no difficult
thing for Him...God forbid that He [God[ Himself should beget a
son!...Those who say: 'The Lord of Mercy has begotten a son,' preach
a monstrous falsehood..." (Surah 19:20-21, 29, 88-89)



"NEVER DID ALLAH TAKE TO HIMSELF A SON, and never was
there with him any (other) god . . ." (Sura 23:91)



"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to
the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)



"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war
against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock
and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of
Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" (Sahih Bukhari
004.52.176)
t

 

[Hessian]

Yes T...those portions do paint a dark picture of Islam...but those who are willing to acknowledge those dark images are often just as critical of Scripture
OR
They will say you took them all out of context and all religions try to hide their contradictions and darker angles.

Abraham lied about his relationship with Sarah,
Jacob was a wiley, shifty manipulator,
Moses had a fierce temper,
David was an adulterer,
Solomon, wise but polygamist and pesimistic.

So, the shallow say "See! Those were the 'heroes' of the OT...no one should follow their example!"

Then we have seen lots of silly criticism of Paul for his stern rebuke of the behavior of the Corinthians and his denunciation of queers.

So...while believers can say "yup, those Moslems are really out of their fanatical heads." We have plenty of home-grown cynics who settle for a gray world lacking wrong & right who spout distain at all religions and despise the faith that gave this nation its birth.

Good to hear from you T.

 

[Hessian]

A Plane load of...

Oh...I just reread a letter sent by my brother in Law months ago..thus I will give him the credit for this thought.
Christianity would not hijack loads of people and plunge them too their deaths...we'd load up planes of food and gifts and distribute them to total strangers bringing hope and kindness (see Operation Christmas Child)or brings gifts to the needy families of convicts (Angel Tree).

Islam has always preached brutal conquest... hundreds of years before the crusades they enslaved and massacred thousands of people in their conquest of the Middle East, North Africa and Persia. They brutalized Spain until stopped by Pippin.
UNFORTUNATELY, our shallow liberal friends are only willing to snarl "What about the crusades???" when addressing religious violence. We have made centuries of apologies for our wayward European nobles...when has any Imam, Sultan or Satrap made any apologies for their conquests?...Never.

Islam preaches hate and will always do so.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Hey Hess

How could I forget you.. Well this is my understanding of the OT of the bible.. Its telling us about lessons learned. How can we relate to those people in the bible, if they never had problems like we do today. It goes back to when Adam fell, Sin came into the world. We all have a sin nature. All those people you described - Paul, Abraham, etc. We have to remember these were men, not gods.. Sarah couldn't wait for God to give her a child. Instead of trusting in what God told her, she took things into her own hands, So thats how Ismael came to be. We always have to remember we all come short of the Glory of God..
These men and women lived in wicked times just like we do, God had patiences, and love for them. Just like He has for all of us. The difference with true believers and others, others don't accept Christ in their hearts.. But only God knows that.
If you really read between the lines in those scriptures (Islam).. Its telling man to take these actions in their own hands.. But God tells us, not to judge others, but to love, because God Himself is the only one that can judge.
The difference I see with Christianity, and Islam. God is love, We are to love our neighbors. That has always been His first commandment.. Check out Matthew - NT, when Jesus was with the Disiples. And the Jewish leaders tried to trick Jesus, or so they thought.. God says to love your enemies.. The old ways in the OT - are for knowledge and understanding.. NT is for the new covenent after Jesus died for our sins, and rose after the 3rd day. We are saved under grace, not works..Everyone born after Jesus died is covered under the new covenent not the old. Islam is totally about works.. ALLAH is a Sun-God..

Christians in other countries are now being killed, because they refuse to accept Islam as their religion. Someday it will be the same for christians in this country..

What we fail to realize its not our place to judge others. But God also said, not to worship any other gods, because he is the one true God..

Can anyone tell me another religion practice in this world that had a Christ-like resurrection. This means for those who didn't go to sunday school. When Jesus died a physical death, on the cross, after the 3rd day He came back to earth to fellowship with the disiples. He had a new body, like we will have once we leave this earth and go into eternity.. When He left, He didn't die, He went to His father in heaven, to prepare a place for all the true believers. But I suppose if you don't believe in God, or anything past this lifetime, then your excluded. Any partakers?