Does Islam preach Hate?

[Kyle]

Originally posted by jimmy
...Your thinking is wrong. It's not about Cokes, and mustangs, and McDonalds. It's about Western influence and involvement in their affairs. What is an example of Western influence in the Middle East? Um...Israel?....

That's what it always comes back to isn't it Jimmy! ISRAEL

That we won't let fifteen nations gang up on and slaughter a tiny little population on a spit of land!

If that's what makes us "Hegemonic"...."Imperialist" then I guess we'll have to be Imperialist then. And they'll have to get over it!
I'd like to know how you see "stopping a nation from attacking another" as "interfering in internal matters"? That's fairly external!

UFB

 

[Kyle]

Re: AndWhat

Originally posted by vraiblonde
[B... Actually, we went over there because the South Koreans were our UN buddies so we went over there to help them out against the Chinese and North Koreans. You need to go back and get a history lesson....[/B]

Don't hold your breath for any of them to actually read a little history....It's evidently far easier to just make it up!

 

[Kyle]

Originally posted by jetmonkey
...or trying to learn how to spell kat...

Hell! Some of the "WhatNuts" spell that way now!

 

[andwhat]

Vrai, went over there to help them out against the Chinese and Norht Koreans b/c they were are UN buddies huh? So what after a session in New York or Teh Hague we'd go out drinking with korea and look for girls? The reason we helped our good body Korea against North Korea and China is b/c North Korea and China were communist and we couldn't let te evil communist boogie men take over one of our good buddies. What was korea the best man at the US's wedding?

Soviet Union? We convinced them to change huh? what one day millions of people form the USSR woke up one morning and said, you know what those American Capitalist Pigs were right after all? The truth is that the nation imploded b/c they were spending so much money on building new war heads that they're people were starving. But as I said again that was then and this is now when big business, not governments, rule the world. the USSR wasn't populous enough to sustain being a superpower. china is. wait and see.

The bomb: Why not them first, b/c we ferreted the smart scientists out of germany. Thats why they didn't have it first. Oh wait, we discovered something first so then we must be better than everyone else huh? Then China wins again b/c they discovered gun powder which was the last revolutionary discovery in warfare before the bomb. (yes planes and tanks were new and changed warfare, but not in the way that gunpowder and the bomb did).

Humans as animals. Humans are animals, ok groovy works for me. Dogs are animal. Dogs don't have morality, humans don't have morality. Logic. If you want to say my logics flawed try reading Darwinian Natural Rigth by Larry Arnhart. Its all about using survival of the fittest in modern morality. I'll even give away the surprise ending, animals can't have morality therefore humans either aren't strictly animals, or they have no morality at all.

When we see a majority of americans wanting to bash the heads in of lesbians we can be alarmed, not when its just a few people. I'm sorry but I didn't see all of the worlds muslims at the controls of those airplanes. My eyesight must be failing. i thought it was just a few extremists who committed the terrorist attacks. My fault.

Yea well we've had our hand in the middle east (The Iranian revolution comes to mind) in the name of oil for a long time. Kinda like you don't start nothin, there won't be nothin huh? We have a problem with tehm attacking us and telling us how to act, but damn if we weren't quick to tell them that the way they're living is "stone age" and wrong. So we leave their oil alone and get out of the middle east, fine by me but our wonderful elected officals in washington refuse to increase fuel efficiency requirements in cars or push alternative energy. So we're still over there protecting our oil interests and smacking down anyone who stands in our way of taking the oil we want.

Monkey, sorry must have missed that article, would love to see it if you can find it though. I seem to remember a Post article specifically saying that most of these extermists came from desolate areas of the countries where extremists and fundamentalists provided the only source of schooling and chance for a future. you should read over the two articles you posted.

 

[andwhat]

Monkey, I'm not syaing that China's all that great of a place. However I would say that a civilization that has thrived for 4,000 years is a bit more impressive than a country that has been thriving for 50 years. China isn't all that great. I'll admit it, but thats not even the point now is it? And next you masturbate in the corner b/c of my shitty memory, use some vaseline or something. Don't want you to chafe after all. Then you'd be in too much pain to sit there and argue with everything jimmy and I say.

 

[jimmy]

Ah...I leave for lunch and anther "dillbag rubbing" session is in full swing, emoticons and all!! Shame I've been missing it...seems like you all are really getting off on eachother...

Vrai I'll get to your points first cause they're the easiest.

"And where are they now, hmmm? A better question is: why were we able to convince them to change instead of vice versa?"

Because we (regan/bush) convinced Gorbachev that he would receive help from us in getting their new economy running and that we would disband NATO as a result (a threat in the USSR's eyes). Then, after Glastnost and Peristroika accomplished what we wanted, we basically left them alone. That's why. Good old fashioned deciet.

"Why didn't they do it first? They've been around a lot longer than we have"

Dunno. Are you suggesting that other races and cultures who did not develop this technology were inferior to us? Hmm...then why did we have to go and get germans and jews to do it for us?? (oppenhiemer was educated in germany, einstein was both jewish and german)

"Because I don't believe that, just because you are an animal, you lose all morality. And humans ARE animals - get over it or get a biology book"

Go buy a philosophy book. Humans ARE the ONLY animals with a moral code. Unless you can get one of them to tell me otherwise, I'm not gonna believe it.

Now Kyle...

"Do you really believe this bull$#!t you spit out? Or is it for purposes of humor?" (and the rest of your little tirade)

Well aren't we all grown up? But I'll give you the benefit of addressing you concerns.

I love this country. I love the freedoms which this country affords me. I respect the fact that, in order to protect those freedoms, wars have to be waged and people need to be killed. I wouldn't move to another country for the rest of my life if it was within my power. Do not attempt to guage my patriotism. Jesus, you all are SO bad with these ASS-umptions that you make.

BUT----that doesn't mean I'm gonna turn a blind eye to my country's history. That doesn't mean that I'm gonna side with my president no matter WHAT is at issue. Jesus, that's why we HAVE these freedoms here! So that dissenting voices aren't quieted by people like YOU that see them as a threat to our national identity.

If you want to look at history and shout "RAH RAH USA" at every turn, then be my guest. But don't take my disagreement to mean that I don't love living here.

Yes I'm employed (well...for the time being) and YES I am going to to my best to make sure that I earn a good living. I don't have a problem with capitalism that is kept in check by basic regard for your common man...THAT is what I see lacking when we talk about big corporations and evil american imperialism etc...

Let me go on the record as this seems to be a HUGE issue with you: I am NOT a Marxist/Communist whateverthe"F"elseyouthink-ist. I don't have this view of a social utopia or paradise or whatever the hell you think. I think Marx was an idealist whose vision cannot be realized on this earth. I DON'T think communists are EVIL and I DO think SOME aspects of Communism are good ideas. But, again, your ASS-umptions are getting the better of you and you are ASS-uming things about me that just aren't true.

If we are gonna keep conversing, stop trying to GUESS who I am and simply deal with EACH issue as it comes up.

I love this country because of it's ability to change. I F'n HATE the "love it or leave it" crap that I get from you all because you are omitting one VERY fundamental choice: Change it. Love it, leave it or CHANGE IT.

But that cuts right to the core of the difference between us liberals and you conservatives doesn't it...change...you fear it; you don't want it to come. So much so, that you blatantly IGNORE it's possiblity.

I,however, and liberals, embrace it and hope to be a part of it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Jimmy

I leave for lunch and anther "dillbag rubbing" session is in full swing, emoticons and all!!

So if you don't like it, you and AndWhat should stop rubbing. What's a "dillbag", anyway?

Hmm...then why did we have to go and get germans and jews to do it for us?? (oppenhiemer was educated in germany, einstein was both jewish and german)

Then why didn't they develop the technology for their own country? We also have a lot of Asians who are busily developing new technology in the US - why aren't they doing that for China, Korea, etc.?

Go buy a philosophy book.

No thanks - philosophy isn't fact, it's philosophy. That's why they call it philosophy.

F'n HATE the "love it or leave it" crap that I get from you all because you are omitting one VERY fundamental choice: Change it. Love it, leave it or CHANGE IT.

What about those of us who don't WANT it changed? Or don't we get a say in this?

 

[vraiblonde]

Hello, kettle? It's 'jimmy' again, you black m/f-er...

 

[andwhat]

no no monkey we get off with each other not on each other. Hey vrai, philosophy isn't fact. You win, guess what else morality is philosophy, i.e not fact. Please my dear lady tell me what is fact. I'd love to see what you can do to prove anything is fact without philosophy and logic. Remember logic is philosophy, therefore all deductive reasoning is philosophy there attempting to provide proof to anything is philosophy therefore nothing can be proven to be true "fact" with out support which is based on logic which is philosophy which is not fact. You have now essentially said that nothing can be proven fto be fact and that science is wrong.

Now thats philosophy.

Most fo the german scientists WERE doing it for their own country, they just didn't get a chance to finish. We stole them away before they could finish there work. And trust me there are lots of brilliant koreans, Chinese and others working in their own country for their OWN country. they're not all here. In fact according to recent studies (Yes I know they came from thew Washignton Post, that damn liberal bastion) the Chinese are much better educated than children in america. Maybe thats why most of the cutting edge technology comes form china and japan.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'd love to see what you can do to prove anything is fact without philosophy and logic.

Most grass is of a color we call green. Right now, I'm sitting at my computer. I am a female. These are FACTS, not theory or conjecture. It is not I who has a problem seperating fact from opinion...AndWhat...Jimmy...

We stole them away before they could finish there work.

Do you mean to say that we literally went in there and kidnapped them? Does Amnesty International know about this?

the Chinese are much better educated than children in america.

Pop quiz! What is the ratio of Americans who go to China for higher education vs. Chinese who come to America?

 

[Kyle]

Originally posted by jimmy
...I love this country. I love the freedoms which this country affords me. I respect the fact that, in order to protect those freedoms, wars have to be waged and people need to be killed. I wouldn't move to another country for the rest of my life if it was within my power. Do not attempt to guage my patriotism. Jesus, you all are SO bad with these ASS-umptions that you make...

Those assumptions are made, and verified, by the very thoughts you choose to share!

...BUT----that doesn't mean I'm gonna turn a blind eye to my country's history. That doesn't mean that I'm gonna side with my president no matter WHAT is at issue. Jesus, that's why we HAVE these freedoms here! So that dissenting voices aren't quieted by people like YOU that see them as a threat to our national identity....

No one ever said, including I, that there was anything wrong with dissenting voices. I don't see them as a threat either. I would just like it if you root your thoughts in "Real" not "Imagined/revised" history!

...If you want to look at history and shout "RAH RAH USA" at every turn, then be my guest. But don't take my disagreement to mean that I don't love living here.

I've heard you do little else, in many forums, but accuse the U.S. of being everything short of the Devil itself.
I should regard this as a sign of love? C'mon! Get real!

...Yes I'm employed (well...for the time being) and YES I am going to to my best to make sure that I earn a good living. I don't have a problem with capitalism that is kept in check by basic regard for your common man...THAT is what I see lacking when we talk about big corporations and evil american imperialism etc...

Again more Marist BS! You might do a little reading there Carl!

Corporations are what have brought this nation to the level it's at! Not "Mom and Pop" groceries! Not "Jimmy's Lawn Service". Industry drives the economy! These "big corporations" are made up of many hundreds and sometime thousands of "little people" that combine and solicit their talents to earn a living. In combination with venture capital it's an awesome combination in practice.

So next time you jump in your car to go home take a look around you and see how much of it would be if it weren't for men with drive, and investors with capital, creating these large companies.

The odds are even that you work for a large company that provides some product or service.

...Let me go on the record as this seems to be a HUGE issue with you: I am NOT a Marxist/Communist ...

Walks like a Duck....

...If we are gonna keep conversing, stop trying to GUESS who I am and simply deal with EACH issue as it comes up...[

"Who someone is" sometimes explains why their thinking is so twisted! And I've dealt with the issues each time. Line by line...Zzzzzzz!

...I love this country because of it's ability to change. I F'n HATE the "love it or leave it" crap that I get from you all because you are omitting one VERY fundamental choice: Change it. Love it, leave it or CHANGE IT.

But that cuts right to the core of the difference between us liberals and you conservatives doesn't it...change...you fear it; you don't want it to come. So much so, that you blatantly IGNORE it's possiblity.

I,however, and liberals, embrace it and hope to be a part of it.

See there in lies the problem. Conservatives don't "Fear" change...They only want that "Change" to be beneficial.

Liberals want "change" only because it's different! Not better! Just different!

That's the problem with Liberal philosophy!

 

[vraiblonde]

Maybe thats why most of the cutting edge technology comes form china and japan.

For example.....?

 

[andwhat]

Sorry Kyle but conservatives want that change to beneficial only to them . Liberals want that change to be beneficial to everyone. thats why liberals support gay rights (i.e. no discrimination) while conservatives do all they can to try and fight issues such as this.

Vrai, stole them away, as in figure of speech. Not literally. i know its touch on a message board to do something liek use a figure of speech but bear with me.
As for your facts, most grass is green. Only a fact if you've seen all the grass in existance and counted all the green colored grass and all the other colored grass and there is more green than anything else. As for being at a computer right now or you being a woman, I'll take you're word on those two. I can't be sure that either of these are true b/c I can't prove them. How do you prove you are ata computer? You are sitting ina place that is visible to others, they see a computer there, they see you next to the computer therefore you are at the computer. Still logic with support which is again philosophy.

Yes we have better colleges than they do, but we still live in a world where the majority of the people don't go to college so I'll rely on basic education. and besides, as you were so quick to point out on the liberals are smarter thread, more education at a higher level doesn't make you smarter or more educated.

 

[andwhat]

Monkey if you don't stop you're going to go blind.

Vrai, how about computers, satellites, cell phone technology, nanotechnology or we'll keep it simple with things like microwaves, TVs, radios, car engines (both traditional internal combustion and new hybrids gas-electrics) are those enough examples or should I keep going?

 

[vraiblonde]

How do you prove you are ata computer?

Duh! I'm fricken typing on the thing. The very fact (and yes, this is a fact as well) that you post back to me tells you that I am, in fact, at a computer. It also tells me, in fact, that you are at a computer as well. Any more tests, Einstein?

 

[Kyle]

This is going nowhere!

This thread is dead! We aren't going to get anywhere with a group that believe their opinions are real and actual history is irrelevant!

Hell! WhatNot's making up world history faster than anyone here can type!

Jimmy's convinced all evil ends in U.S.

I'm sure JimAndDanWhatEver are desparately working to finish the tome "New Improved World History" revision 5.01.

They certainly don't seem to have read, or be interested in reading, actual world history.

That being the case I'll have to wait for the next topic.

Vrai, Jet...Have fun!

 

[jimmy]

Monkey,

Our support of eachothers arguements is NOTHING compared to the over-the-top, emoticon-riddled, back-slapping, bag-rubbing coming from your camp...but I'm glad you were able to use your clever little "black m/fer" comment...bet you couldn't wait to bust that one out when you thought of it, eh?

Kyle,

You HAVE shown contempt for dissenting voices. More than just attacking with little history lessons, as you seem to be claiming, you take every opportunity to cry about what the "real problems with liberals" are and take shots at our education.

This all in the midst of neither myself nor andwhat really enquiring into your background and attempting to make generalizations about where your views might be coming from. I don't care where you learned YOUR rhetoric; it's rhetoric just the same. And I would rather deal with you on an issue by issue basis rather than resorting to labeling you and discounting your opinions in my mind before even hearing them.

You address my point about the differences between conservatives and liberals in regards to change. But you get the whole thing wrong by saying that conservatives want change to be 'Beneficial' and you neglect to say for whom. Andwhat cleared that up with his "me vs everyone" analogy. Way to go, AND!!
:bandit: How's that feel, andwhat? Dill bag getting tender yet??

Read Carl, eh? Capitalism unchecked is as dangerous as anarchy. It's a beneficial system, to some, but extremely harmful for others. What kind of system do you think we have that you call checked capitalism Marxism??? Talk about reactionary!

And me thinking the US is the Devil itself? I suppose I can see that, if you take ONE real issue we've dealt with here (the middle east) I've been pretty against US policy there. And that's no secret. That policy involves globalization where, again, I see some wrongdoing on our part. But we've yet to talk about the grand scope of things that America stands for and you've yet to hear my ENTIRE position on EVERY issue involving patriotism.

I don't care what you think you glean from my posts. I'm telling you my opinions right here and all you do is simply look at them and say "well, duh, that's not what I THOUGHT!" Well then F you if you don't want to listen to what I have to say. I really don't care any more who you think I am. Make all the assumptions you want.

 

[jimmy]

Monkey,

"WHITE devil itself" ?????

Explain this, if you would.

 

[vraiblonde]

You're wasting your time now, Jet. JimmyAndWhat don't believe that any of it is true - they think it's made up by the VRWC. The only thing that's real is what they THINK happens, not what REALLY happens. Their OPINION is what's real, not hard evidence to the contrary.

 

[James D]

Jimmy,

You said you liked some aspects of communism?

Which ones?



Then the gay rights are brought up? Which rights do gays not have? Or is it that like all liberals, you want additional rights over others?