Double Standards (women equality)....

[T.Rally]

Here.... this should explode a few heads this morning...


Civil service: Once dominated by men, occupations like firefighter and police officer are viable options for women today. In the U.S., more than 8,500 women currently work as full-time, career firefighters and officers, and there are an estimated 78,000 female police officers.

Some of the women I've seen lately as police officers, I know could kick their azzes. What are they going to do when they have to go up against a 6'3 220 pund chiseled thug? Call for backup, ie a man. I guess we should get used to picking up the slack.

 

[Steve]

I was asking a question, not making a statement. If you can't answer, don't.

I'll ask again (more generally). Are there physical requirements for specific positions that are physical in nature? Are those requirements gender specific?

And my response answered your question. The services have all kinds of Standards and Requirements for positions. Are you asking me to track them down for you? Should I provide the Air Force Instruction dealing with Physical Fitness Standards? How about Standards for AFSCs? How about I find all the regs for all positions in every branch? Huh?

The short answer is yes, some jobs have physical fitness standards above and beyond the basic standards. For example, Combat Controllers and Pararescue have demanding standards that must be met before you are "qualified". If these are written down somewhere, so be it. As I said, those who can't perform will not graduate tech school training and will be reassigned. elsewhere.

 

[Toxick]

As for abortion... I agree that the father should have more say. It's a tough call though. Pregancy does reak havoc on a woman's body.

Unfortunately, the baby has no say.

And abortion REALLY wreaks havoc on their bodies.

 

[Spoiled]

You mean reverse discrimination? Its not my fault i was born a white male, if i have better grades or what ever than someone why should they get something because they where born a different race or sex when they have shown their inability to perform as well as me?

 

[kwillia]

Check this (bottom of webpage) out... there is not only sex descrimination going on... but age descrimination as well... seem like the older a man gets, the more they are allowed to let themselves go...

 

[Steve]

My point is that in a combat zone, even supply clerks become combatants. In that zone, you can't tell me you wouldn't rather have a man who could carry your butt out if you got wounded than a chick who can do 18 pushups.

What I would rather have is someone who could assist me, regardless of gender. Let's suppose GI Jane can't lift me and carry me to safety, yet GI Jane is an expert marksman who puts down suppression fire at the enemy while GI Joe, who wears coke-bottle glasses and can't shoot the side of a barn, pulls me to safety. Which one should I thank?

Read this to add some info to this debate.

 

[Lost Soul]

The battle of the sexes

There will never be a winner

 

[Steve]

Check this (bottom of webpage) out... there is not only sex descrimination going on... but age descrimination as well... seem like the older a man gets, the more they are allowed to let themselves go...

Good post, Kwillia.

Splain that one machismos!

 

[ylexot]

And my response answered your question. The services have all kinds of Standards and Requirements for positions. Are you asking me to track them down for you? Should I provide the Air Force Instruction dealing with Physical Fitness Standards? How about Standards for AFSCs? How about I find all the regs for all positions in every branch? Huh?

The short answer is yes, some jobs have physical fitness standards above and beyond the basic standards. For example, Combat Controllers and Pararescue have demanding standards that must be met before you are "qualified". If these are written down somewhere, so be it. As I said, those who can't perform will not graduate tech school training and will be reassigned. elsewhere.

Ok, so you answered the first part. However, the part that is important to this discussion is "Are those requirements gender specific?" You're obviously familiar with the standards. So, can you answer that question?

My feeling is that they had better not be.

 

[sleuth]

Unfortunately, the baby has no say.

And abortion REALLY wreaks havoc on their bodies.

True dat.. True dat... I'm against abortion in general... but letting the father have a say would be a step in the right direction.

 

[T.Rally]

Check this (bottom of webpage) out... there is not only sex descrimination going on... but age descrimination as well... seem like the older a man gets, the more they are allowed to let themselves go...

Someone please clue me in. The fact that a man at every age bracket has to outperform his female counterpart is somehow discrimination? Against whom? You expect a 62 year old to keep up with the 21 year olds?

 

[sleuth]

I doubt I could find it, but when I was in college, I read a study that said one of the reasons men get paid more than women is because men are "generally" more aggressive at demanding raises, looking for higher-paying jobs, and threatening to 'walk' if they didn't get those raises or promotions. The study also showed that women, in general, tend to take a more passive stance, complain to coworkers rather than their boss, and worry too much about making waves in the workplace to ask for that raise. They also tend to get settled in their routine jobs and don't actively search for better-paying positions as often as men do.

Don't know how much of that study is true... :shrug:

Dang... can't believe the women-folk let this slide...

 

[Steve]

Ok, so you answered the first part. However, the part that is important to this discussion is "Are those requirements gender specific?" You're obviously familiar with the standards. So, can you answer that question?

My feeling is that they had better not be.

Again, I'd have to search for specific policies reagrding gender specific requirements beyond those already established for Basic Training minimums, which we know are different. Combat controllers, Rangers, SEALs, etc. are front-line combat positions, so women are excluded.

But for all else, I found this concerning quals for Army positions.

To quote from it: "The overall objective of MOS Physical Demands Analysis is job related support for the genderfree screening of soldiers." What that means is if the woman passes the PDA, then she gets the job.

 

[kwillia]

Someone please clue me in. The fact that a man at every age bracket has to outperform his female counterpart is somehow discrimination? Against whom? You expect a 62 year old to keep up with the 21 year olds?

Are you saying that there are no 62 year old men that can keep themselves fit enough to compete with 21 year old men...

 

[SamSpade]

Car insurance companies base thier prices on whatever makes them the most money. I am sure that if they decided to make the cost equal for both sexes they would raise the womens rates to the same as mens rather then lowering or taking an average rate for both.

Yes and no. They balance them VERY carefully. Trust me, you want to make a LOT of money? Become an actuary in the insurance business. It's VERY tough, and you have to be an expert in applied math, but it pays very well.

So they do have the objective of maximizing profit. That is normal.

But it ALSO doesn't mean that it's arbitrary. They could NOT remain in business if it wasn't very carefully arrived at. It's not as simple as raising the rates for women and just averaging them out. Heck, an insurance company will raise JUST *YOUR* rate if you get in an accident. They set rates for every conceivable demographic in every geography. I only know about how complicated it is to set insurance premiums in the medical industry. I can just say, it is totally based on risk, driving record and the attendant probabilities.

 

[vraiblonde]

You mean reverse discrimination? Its not my fault i was born a white male, if i have better grades or what ever than someone why should they get something because they where born a different race or sex when they have shown their inability to perform as well as me?

How do you reconcile this with your support of the Democratic party, which is nothing BUT reverse discrimination?

 

[T.Rally]

Are you saying that there are no 62 year old men that can keep themselves fit enough to compete with 21 year old men...

Look, I see where you're going with this. The fact of the matter is men in general, are physically stronger (not mentally-women have us beat hands down). All this stuff about push ups and gender equality is a bunch of PC hullabaloo.

Most people on these boards rail against the politically correct environment but when the scale is tipped in their favor, suddenly its a good thing.

 

[ylexot]

Again, I'd have to search for specific policies reagrding gender specific requirements beyond those already established for Basic Training minimums, which we know are different. Combat controllers, Rangers, SEALs, etc. are front-line combat positions, so women are excluded.

But for all else, I found this concerning quals for Army positions.

To quote from it: "The overall objective of MOS Physical Demands Analysis is job related support for the genderfree screening of soldiers." What that means is if the woman passes the PDA, then she gets the job.

I delved a little deeper into it and found that the Army and Air Force do have non-gender specific requirements for each position. I couldn't find similar information for the Navy or Marines, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In light of that, I don't have a problem with the initial requirements differences between men and women in the military.

 

[Shutterbug]

I doubt I could find it, but when I was in college, I read a study that said one of the reasons men get paid more than women is because men are "generally" more aggressive at demanding raises, looking for higher-paying jobs, and threatening to 'walk' if they didn't get those raises or promotions. The study also showed that women, in general, tend to take a more passive stance, complain to coworkers rather than their boss, and worry too much about making waves in the workplace to ask for that raise. They also tend to get settled in their routine jobs and don't actively search for better-paying positions as often as men do.

Don't know how much of that study is true...

Dang... can't believe the women-folk let this slide...

As a women-folk...I tend to think this is true. Why else would they have books titled, "Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office"? :shrug: That book talks about exactly what you said.

 

[Toxick]

You mean reverse discrimination? Its not my fault i was born a white male, if i have better grades or what ever than someone why should they get something because they where born a different race or sex when they have shown their inability to perform as well as me?

You're familiar with Affirmative Action and quotas.

You're aware that it's one of the founding principals and key points of your modern Democratic Party.