Dow 40,000

[HemiHauler]

For your consideration ...



Yeah, it's called a feedback loop. Everything costs more becasue more money created from nothing is pushed into the economic system that raises prices for EVERYTHING. They spend becasue they have to just to maintain a minimal subsistence. Not everyone has a million dollar 401k or IRA account. Or any substantial savings for that matter, through no fault of their own.

I do understand. Our economy is a carefully but centrally planned one. Our implementation of capitalism is a highly constrained one indeed.

I do have a strong disagreement with your “no fault of their own” angle.

There is no other nation on the planet where one can become as rich and financially successful as one’s talents, creativity, and innovation will carry them, even in our sometimes suffocating form of capitalism.

The most valued minority group in our nation is the individual. I believe very strongly that each individual is responsible for their own successes, failures, and retirement planning in life.

There is no “we”. There is only me and you, etc.

 

[Clem72]

And everything costs more because … wait for it. EVERYONE IS SPENDING MONEY.

Come on man!

In a closed system this would be kept in check, if everyone needs to spend all their money on necessities then luxuries get cheaper as there is less demand.

BUT

If we just print more money and give it to people then they can buy both, and will. Now we are supply constrained and prices rise (inflation).

The problem isn't people buying things, it's injecting more money into the system.

 

[HemiHauler]

In a closed system this would be kept in check, if everyone needs to spend all their money on necessities then luxuries get cheaper as there is less demand.

BUT

If we just print more money and give it to people then they can buy both, and will. Now we are supply constrained and prices rise (inflation).

The problem isn't people buying things, it's injecting more money into the system.

I understand your reasoning.

Our economy doesn’t work without consumption. Ergo, if you’re looking at this with an eye towards root cause analysis, it is consumption that is the engine. Money press going brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr is the fuel.

 

[Gilligan]

When I was in graduate school in 1987,

You are just a kid. I figured as much...

 

[Chopticon64]

If jobs are everywhere why do I still see people begging we where better off when TRUMP was POTUS why are so many complaining about the economy was is inflation so high I know why because a dem is in the white house

You are not real.

If you are, your “friends” are idiots

 

[TPD]

To put things in perspective -

Since inauguration day 2021 - Dow annualized return to now has been 7.76%

Trump inauguration day 2017 to May 31st 2020 (same amount of time in office as Biden now) - Dow annualized return was 7.63%. This was 2 months after Covid hit and the Dow dropped almost 9,000 points in less than 3 weeks.

Trump inauguration day 2017 to Biden inauguration day 2021 - Dow annualized return was 11.98%

Dow has to reach 49000 by January 2025 for Biden to match Trump's 4 years in office. Lets revisit this in January to see where we are.

 

[GURPS]

To put things in perspective -

No Using FACTS

 

[TPD]

No Using FACTS

my bad - I forgot the rules of this forum...

 

[TPD]

The Dow dropped 9000pts in 3 weeks under Trump. He got that back plus another 4000pts in 8 months. All I'm asking of Biden is to give me 9000pts in 8 months, not 13000pts. That's not a difficult task so lets go Brandon!

 

[TPD]

I've changed my mind Brandon - I do want 13000pts just to make up for YOUR inflation!

Inflation flattens Americans' wealth gains under Biden: report

High inflation has flattened the growth in American household net worth in recent years, with little net growth in President Biden's first three years compared to his predecessor.

www.foxbusiness.com

A report by the Wall Street Journal analyzed changes in household net worth from the start of Biden's presidency in comparison to those seen during the tenure of his predecessor and presumptive opponent in the 2024 election, former President Donald Trump. It found that in nominal terms, total household net worth rose by 19% through Biden's first three years in office – a comparable figure to the 23% increase seen in Trump's first three years.

However, when factoring inflation's impact on household net worth, the data is less favorable for Biden. After adjusting for inflation, household net worth is up by just 0.7% through Biden's first three years in office, whereas it was up 16% in Trump's first three years.

At the time of Biden's inauguration in January 2021, year-over-year inflation in the U.S. economy was about 1.4%. However, inflation surged due to global supply chain disruptions related to the COVID pandemic as well as elevated levels of government spending, peaking at a 40-year high of 9.1% in June 2022.

 

[Kinnakeet]

You are not real.

If you are, your “friends” are idiots

You cant handle the truth and your friend are homosexuals begging for dik in the walmart parking lot

 

[somdwatch]

For your consideration...



And it will keep going higher and higher over the next decades. Because ... we are in a fiat monetary system where the only way to keep the house of cards from falling is to keep increasing the money supply.



There is so much wrong here, I'm not even going to try to explain things to you.

Smart Choice! between cow pie high and the living roid there aren't enough pictures that would have them understand it.

 

[somdwatch]

And everything costs more because … wait for it. GOVT IS PRINTING MONEY.

Come on man!

Fixed it for you Roid.

 

[SamSpade]

Fixed it for you Roid.

I don't think I can see how it is possible that printing more money does NOT cause inflation.

 

[HemiHauler]

Fixed it for you Roid.

Without the consumption component, money press going brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt cannot alone create inflation. Inflation is “too much money chasing too few goods”; ergo with out consumption… well never mind. You’re clearly too stupid to grasp.

Let me guess: public education?

 

[HemiHauler]

I don't think I can see how it is possible that printing more money does NOT cause inflation.

It only does because of human propensity to spend a dollar — thus the turn of phrase, “Money burning a hole in my pocket.”

There is a reason quantitative easing is used to stimulate the economy.

But you need to work on the nuanced understanding of cause vs. effect here.

 

[SamSpade]

It only does because of human propensity to spend a dollar — thus the turn of phrase, “Money burning a hole in my pocket.”

There is a reason quantitative easing is used to stimulate the economy.

But you need to work on the nuanced understanding of cause vs. effect here.

And I think you have the same.

If I am spending MORE for gas and groceries, it's not because I am buying more gas and groceries - it's because they cost more.
They cost more for a lot of reasons - not the least of which is, fuel to transport them has risen.
If I spend more for rent (I don't rent, this is an example) it is not because I like to give my landlord more money - it's because for various reasons, he is CHARGING more.

These are the sorts of things that people will always pay, because they depend on them. If I pay more for insulin (again, not me but family) it's because they're charging me more money.

If I am spending more money for the same things today that I was buying three years ago, it's not ME. *I* am not driving inflation.

What HAS been observed is - savings are down. Credit cards are maxxed. People are raiding retirement accounts.
They are not doing that because they are idiot spendthrifts wasting money on Starbucks and eating out - they are doing that, because they have no choice.

I realize DEMAND can produce inflation - but I don't see that happening here.

 

[HemiHauler]

And I think you have the same.

If I am spending MORE for gas and groceries, it's not because I am buying more gas and groceries - it's because they cost more.
They cost more for a lot of reasons - not the least of which is, fuel to transport them has risen.
If I spend more for rent (I don't rent, this is an example) it is not because I like to give my landlord more money - it's because for various reasons, he is CHARGING more.

These are the sorts of things that people will always pay, because they depend on them. If I pay more for insulin (again, not me but family) it's because they're charging me more money.

If I am spending more money for the same things today that I was buying three years ago, it's not ME. *I* am not driving inflation.

What HAS been observed is - savings are down. Credit cards are maxxed. People are raiding retirement accounts.
They are not doing that because they are idiot spendthrifts wasting money on Starbucks and eating out - they are doing that, because they have no choice.

I realize DEMAND can produce inflation - but I don't see that happening here.

For better or worse, that’s why we now have the concept of core inflation — transitory price shifts are excluded. The academic concept has been around for a while but only in the last 20 years or so have our central planners started to use core inflation (PCE) vs. other traditional measures.

A criticism of that methodology is, because PCE generally runs lower than other measures (consumer price index (CPI)), the government wants to use more optimistic figures to make us feel better.

While I’m not sure that history will judge quantitative easing positively, it doesn’t make any logical sense at all that the act of creating money, absent other market forces (like consumption), creates inflation all by itself. I just don’t see any possible way that can happen without the consumer consumption component.

 

[SamSpade]

While I’m not sure that history will judge quantitative easing positively, it doesn’t make any logical sense at all that the act of creating money, absent other market forces (like consumption), creates inflation all by itself. I just don’t see any possible way that can happen without the consumer consumption component.

I may not grasp a lot of economics very well - I do get what is called inelastic demand - that some things, people will buy no matter how much they cost, because they have to have them. Like - to live. And some things are also inelastic, because other than live, they don't want to go hungry, freeze to death or be unable to go to their jobs and so forth.

So when the cost of basics goes up, they scrounge, scrape and go through the couch for change, but they pay it.

But I try to see printing money like this --

Say I want to buy a house. Half a mil and I don't got squat. I ring up Uncle Sam and say, hey Uncle, print me up a buncha money, I want to buy a house. I stroll up with a huge pile of cash in my pickup and say, here ya go - half a mil. Can I move in now?

Now where did the "value" of that currency come from? Other than the ink and paper it took to create it? Since things have a more or less fixed value, and currency can be created at will - and at any time, there is a finite amount of currency - creating more devalues the currency.

Otherwise, Uncle Sam could just go into the currency creating industry from coast to coast, and literally buy everything on the planet. It could print enough money for everyone in the nation to be billionaires, but they'd all be sixpence none the richer. And the only thing that makes sense of that - is inflation. Or DE flation, as it were. Money is worth less, stuff costs more.

 

[HemiHauler]

I may not grasp a lot of economics very well - I do get what is called inelastic demand - that some things, people will buy no matter how much they cost, because they have to have them. Like - to live. And some things are also inelastic, because other than live, they don't want to go hungry, freeze to death or be unable to go to their jobs and so forth.

So when the cost of basics goes up, they scrounge, scrape and go through the couch for change, but they pay it.

But I try to see printing money like this --

Say I want to buy a house. Half a mil and I don't got squat. I ring up Uncle Sam and say, hey Uncle, print me up a buncha money, I want to buy a house. I stroll up with a huge pile of cash in my pickup and say, here ya go - half a mil. Can I move in now?

Now where did the "value" of that currency come from? Other than the ink and paper it took to create it? Since things have a more or less fixed value, and currency can be created at will - and at any time, there is a finite amount of currency - creating more devalues the currency.

Otherwise, Uncle Sam could just go into the currency creating industry from coast to coast, and literally buy everything on the planet. It could print enough money for everyone in the nation to be billionaires, but they'd all be sixpence none the richer. And the only thing that makes sense of that - is inflation. Or DE flation, as it were. Money is worth less, stuff costs more.

Well that gets into a whole other bag of worms…

The question of how fiat money has value is the source of loads of conspiracy theories and Gadsden Flags all across America.

My thoughts on that: our currency has value because of the government’s ability to levy an income tax denominated in that currency.

When we hear of a new government spending program, we ask, “But how are we going to pay for it — by raising taxes of course.”

What that really means though is: by how much do taxes need to be raised to remove enough money from the economy such that we don’t create more inflation than we need to given extant constraints. Our taxes don’t really fund a damn thing directly. Our federal income tax dollars are just data in a spreadsheet that gets destroyed when we settle up every April.

So while I understand the example you’re using to demonstrate your point, it ignores the role of the income tax. Of course, I realize it’s just a scenario do demonstrate a point, but the role of the income is vital to how this apparent house of cards works.