Dr. Charles Stanley

[ItalianScallion]

<CENTER>By Todd Strandberg</CENTER>
Whenever I look at all the groups that teach false doctrine and are highly focused on end-time events, I cannot find any that support the rapture theory.

Hi Marie. First, I don't know this Strandberg guy. I somewhat believed the rapture doctrine many years ago but I still had problems reconciling it with some verses like Rev 20 v 4, 5 so I just kept quiet about it. Now I'm a bit more comfortable and knowledgeable about it and, if this is the first resurrection right before the millenium, then the rapture couldn't have happened. And Paul, at the end of 1 Thess. 4, never said WHEN this being "caught up" in the air with the Lord would happen; Before, during or after the tribulation. This is the mistake that many people made (including me) in reading more into this than was intended. There is really no back to back 3 1/2 years of peace and 3 1/2 years of tribulation spoken of in the Bible. Anyhow, look, you can believe what you like about this. We can still co-exist here with these differences. I really don't want to get away from the posted topic here but we all have deviated seriously from commending Dr. Charles Stanley.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I do not see how anyone can say that she believes some of her own family members are to burn in Hell for all eternity,

and then claim to be soft hearted.

That kind of contradiction is not acceptable in my God.

You god is spelled with a lower case g, since your god is not the God of the Bible.

Plain and simple, like it or not, not everyone is saved. Recognizing that is key to proclaiming the saving grace that is available through belief in Jesus. If everyone is already saved, then there is no need for the great commission. Since Jesus gave Christians the great commission, there must be a need.

Of course that all relies on logic and the ability to apply it, so it will go over your head unless, by some miracle, you instantly realize that what you have been teaching is wrong.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Maybe I should have said "some verses" instead of "many" but no matter, what is your take on vs 15,16 and 34? I think they have a reference to the temple destruction don't you? Why would Jesus speak of the "abomination that causes desolation" that Daniel 9, 11, 12 spoke of in reference to the temple destruction and mention only to those in Judea to flee and, finally, "this generation" won't pass away until this has happened?

No. I do not think it refers to the destruction of the temple. The ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION spoke of in Daniel is a thing or practice because Daniel says it is set up in Daniel 11:31 as does Jesus' words in Matthew 24:15 where He says we see it "standing in the holy place." The destruction of the temple in not a "set up" but a "tear down."

Scripture does not tell what the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION actually is in Daniel or Matthew. I believe it is the image of the beast spoken of in Revelation 13 and elsewhere in Revelation, but I firmly believe that true Christians will recognize it as such when it happens. The generation that sees the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION set up will see the end of this system and the return of Jesus. Those in Judea is an example as are "those on a house top." Jesus was just saying that no matter where you are, when this happens, get away, flee to uninhabited areas, the mountains because "there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will."

I have studied Revelation in light of Daniel 11 & 12, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. Not recently, so my memory is hazy, but doing so sheds light on the last days and the tribulation and Jesus' return. I used to be a pre-tribulation rapture believer because of reading Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth," but after getting more in depth with the Bible as the authority, I have come to believe that the pre-tribulation is just wishful thinking.

But pre and post tribulation coming of Jesus is just a distraction from proclaiming the Gospel. God came as man, as Y'shua, He is Savior and Lord and His gracious gift of salvation and eternal life is available to all mankind for the asking. Amen.

 

[Starman3000m]

Hi Marie. First, I don't know this Strandberg guy. I somewhat believed the rapture doctrine many years ago but I still had problems reconciling it with some verses like Rev 20 v 4, 5 so I just kept quiet about it. Now I'm a bit more comfortable and knowledgeable about it and, if this is the first resurrection right before the millenium, then the rapture couldn't have happened. And Paul, at the end of 1 Thess. 4, never said WHEN this being "caught up" in the air with the Lord would happen; Before, during or after the tribulation. This is the mistake that many people made (including me) in reading more into this than was intended. There is really no back to back 3 1/2 years of peace and 3 1/2 years of tribulation spoken of in the Bible. Anyhow, look, you can believe what you like about this. We can still co-exist here with these differences. I really don't want to get away from the posted topic here but we all have deviated seriously from commending Dr. Charles Stanley.

Hi there Italian Scallion,

Indeed there are many thoughts about the end-times circumstances and the time period of antichrist's rule on earth. I guess the "back-to-back" period of 3 1/2 years of peace and 3 1/2 years of great tribulation are formulated from the following verses in Revelation chapters 11 and 13.

The Orthodox Jews are intent on constructing the Third Temple of God and the only way this can happen is if a false peace-pact is enacted by antichrist.
I personally believe that will come to pass. Also, there will be a period, shown in Chapter 11 that seems to indicate that God's "Two Witnesses" will appear during the first 3 1/2 years which may be peaceful enough to have allowed and tolerated Jewish worship on the Temple Mount. Anyway, here is what I submit for a rather interesting discussion on this. (may require a new thread)

Antichrist Reign


Part 1: First 3 ½ Years: Two Witnesses appear while the Holy City is controlled by Gentiles. Peace-Pact has allowed the Third Temple of God to have been built.

Revelation, Chapter 11, verses:

1: And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4: These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5: And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6: These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7: And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.


Part 2: Second 3 ½ years, Antichrist makes an about-face to begin war against the saints after having killed the Two Witnesses:

Revelation, Chapter 13, verses:

3: And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9: If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10: He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11: And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12: And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16: And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18: Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Marie]

Videos

I think, hands down, he is the best preacher out there on T.V. or radio. Anybody watch his "In Touch" show and feel the same or not?

Hi All,
At one point I was into Charles Stanley ,I really like his style of delivery and apericate where he came from in life. So I would go out on Ebay or always keep my eyes open for his messages. I bought some VHS tapes never watched them but if someone would like to have these because your really into him or because they think they might benifit from the topics there yours.
Perhaps someone will be blessed by them.

I have two series sermon sets the first Finical Wisdom and its a 4 tape set

The right view
Prayer Planning
Dealing with debt
The basic step

The source of our strenght is the second series it was 8 tapes I have tapes
2,3,5,8
When we are lonley
When we are fearful
When we fell interferior
When we feel burned out

 

[Marie]

Someone claimed these

 

[Lazerus]

You tell 'em Sis! Stanley tells his audience to "listen" so often that one must suspect that he knows they aren't paying attention to him.
What is even worse is his constant encouragement of the lost to "invite Jesus into their heart!" Nowhere in Scripture do we find sinners exhorted to invite Jesus into their heart, life, or anywhere else! This kind of preaching is in accord with the man-centered Christianity prevalent today and part of the reason there are so many false Christians in churches making them so impotent.
The Lord Jesus invites sinners to deny themselves and follow Him. This is just the opposite of inviting Jesus to help accomplish the will of sinners.

 

[Lazerus]

Hi Marie. First, I don't know this Strandberg guy. I somewhat believed the rapture doctrine many years ago but I still had problems reconciling it with some verses like Rev 20 v 4, 5 so I just kept quiet about it. Now I'm a bit more comfortable and knowledgeable about it and, if this is the first resurrection right before the millenium, then the rapture couldn't have happened. And Paul, at the end of 1 Thess. 4, never said WHEN this being "caught up" in the air with the Lord would happen; Before, during or after the tribulation. This is the mistake that many people made (including me) in reading more into this than was intended. There is really no back to back 3 1/2 years of peace and 3 1/2 years of tribulation spoken of in the Bible. Anyhow, look, you can believe what you like about this. We can still co-exist here with these differences. I really don't want to get away from the posted topic here but we all have deviated seriously from commending Dr. Charles Stanley.

Hello Italian,
I'm new at this, so I hope I'm doing it correctly. If not, please forgive me.
I read this and thought I might be of help. My favorite hermaneutic principle is very simple: keep reading. In this case, don't stop at 1st Thess. 4 but continue to 2nd Thess. 2 where Paul mentions "our gathering together to Him (the Lord Jesus Christ)." Unless one inserts a preconceived notion, this is clearly a reference to the so-called rapture and the entire passage tells us something about its timing.
Yes, I suppose we should be using a different thread.
Blessings,
Lazerus

 

[2ndAmendment]

You tell 'em Sis! Stanley tells his audience to "listen" so often that one must suspect that he knows they aren't paying attention to him.
What is even worse is his constant encouragement of the lost to "invite Jesus into their heart!" Nowhere in Scripture do we find sinners exhorted to invite Jesus into their heart, life, or anywhere else! This kind of preaching is in accord with the man-centered Christianity prevalent today and part of the reason there are so many false Christians in churches making them so impotent.
The Lord Jesus invites sinners to deny themselves and follow Him. This is just the opposite of inviting Jesus to help accomplish the will of sinners.

Not trying to pick a fight, but I think you misunderstand. When it is preached that people must invite Jesus into their hearts, it is in line with these scriptures.

Matthew 22:36-38

36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

37And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

38"This is the great and foremost commandment.

Luke 12:34"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Romans 5:1-5


1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;

4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;

5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Romans 10:8-11

8But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

2 Corintians 4:3-6

3And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,

4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

5For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.

6For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

Galatians 4:4-7

4But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

So scripture says we believe with out hearts. Where our treasure is is where our heart is. The Love of God is pour out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit. The WORD is in our hearts. That God is the One that has shone in our hearts. And God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts.

I think there is plenty of scriptural evidence for asking Jesus into our hearts. Our heart is the center of life, the center of belief, the center of God's love within us, the WORD within us, the Light shining in us, and the Holy Spirit of Jesus within us.

I hope that gives you a different perspective.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Hello Italian,
I'm new at this, so I hope I'm doing it correctly. If not, please forgive me.
I read this and thought I might be of help. My favorite hermaneutic principle is very simple: keep reading. In this case, don't stop at 1st Thess. 4 but continue to 2nd Thess. 2 where Paul mentions "our gathering together to Him (the Lord Jesus Christ)." Unless one inserts a preconceived notion, this is clearly a reference to the so-called rapture and the entire passage tells us something about its timing.
Yes, I suppose we should be using a different thread.
Blessings,
Lazerus

I know this is the scripture used by the pre-tribulation folks. I prefer to rely on what Jesus said of the last days and the timing in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 read in light of the Old Testament prophets and Revelation. Doing so sheds new light on the passages in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians in my opinion.

 

[Lazerus]

None of the verses cited have anything to do with sinners inviting Jesus into their hearts. In order to see God a pure heart is necessary, but one does not get a pure heart by giving an invitation to his Creator. One must repent and die to self by humbly responding to his Creator's invitation. What is needed is a new heart, not a cleaned up heart. Thank you, though, for considering the man-centered approach compared to the Christ-centered approach. In Scripture do we find men inviting Christ or Christ inviting men?

 

[ItalianScallion]

Hello Italian...don't stop at 1st Thess. 4 but continue to 2nd Thess. 2 where Paul mentions "our gathering together to Him (the Lord Jesus Christ)." Unless one inserts a preconceived notion, this is clearly a reference to the so-called rapture and the entire passage tells us something about its timing.

Hello Lazerus, what I said is that the Bible doesn't say at what point it will happen. Some folks say that we will be raptured before the tribulation, some say during and some say at the end of it. I like to think it will be before the tribulation but I can't say that with any authority. When it does happen, we will most certainly be caught up with the Lord in the air whether we are alive or dead when he comes.

...one does not get a pure heart by giving an invitation to his Creator. One must repent and die to self by humbly responding to his Creator's invitation. In Scripture do we find men inviting Christ or Christ inviting men?

You're splitting hairs Lazerus but I have to differ with you on this my friend. The Father calls us to Jesus (John 6 v 44), Jesus saves us when we ask Him to take over our lives and the Holy Spirit seals us until the day of redemption. Jesus said in Rev 3 v 20...I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him and he with me. Yes, "we do find men inviting Christ" into their lives AFTER He calls them.

 

[RadioPatrol]

Yes, everybody gets saved.

That nonsense about burning people in Hell is just to scare people and it was never true or accurate.

well you like Islam so much why don't you strap on a bomb and get your 72 Virgins blowing up some Infidels assuring your place in Paradise

 

[2ndAmendment]

Maybe I should have said "some verses" instead of "many" but no matter, what is your take on vs 15,16 and 34? I think they have a reference to the temple destruction don't you? Why would Jesus speak of the "abomination that causes desolation" that Daniel 9, 11, 12 spoke of in reference to the temple destruction and mention only to those in Judea to flee and, finally, "this generation" won't pass away until this has happened?

No I don't. The abomination of desolation has not occurred yet. Jesus was saying verse 34 that the generation that sees the signs of the tribulation fulfilled will not pass away before He returns.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

well you like Islam so much why don't you strap on a bomb and get your 72 Virgins blowing up some Infidels assuring your place in Paradise

That nonsense about "72 virgins" does not come from the Quran.

I believe it is just a pitiful joke the Muslims give to the American infidels because only an infidel would see "72 virgins" as a prize.

That American infidels believe that nonsense is probably the funniest joke in all of Islam.

 

[ItalianScallion]

No I don't. The abomination of desolation has not occurred yet. Jesus was saying verse 34 that the generation that sees the signs of the tribulation fulfilled will not pass away before He returns.

Personally, I think it was Antiochus Epiphanes IV who was instrumental in the temple destruction by desecrating it with pigs blood, placed a statue of himself in it and who name fits the number 666. I also think it could have a double meaning by referring to him and one at the end times also. Anyhow, no problem 2A, thanks for your input.