Dugger vs Dunham

[PeoplesElbow]

I don't know anything about these people, don't really care. I do know that this is how a whole lot of people see them.

http://deadstate.org/funny-or-dies-new-video-mocking-the-duggar-family-is-perfect/

Got to admit "machine gun of christianity" is pretty funny.

 

[Midnightrider]

That is incorrect. The FOIA does not include juvenile records, Arkansas law also addresses that issue. I had to post the link to this video clip. Transcripts are not available from Megyn Kelly's show, or else I would include the transcript.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/42720204...g-duggar-record/?intcmp=related#sp=show-clips


Also - I'm understanding that the police report was apparently not sealed, according to the City Attorney, which is why they released it. (supposedly reluctantly, but that's another story) Names are redacted, due to the ages of the juveniles. I think the City Attorney and the Sheriff are skating on very thin ice stating that the record should not have been sealed because Josh was 18 when this was all reported. Maybe later when I can find it, I will be able to post the transcript, but last night on Kelly's show she said that a judge declared those records SHOULD HAVE BEEN sealed.

However - back to the huge public outcry that Christians are somehow above making mistakes and should not, therefore, judge others - what a load of hooey.

From the interviews I watched (both nights) at NO TIME did either of the parents claim that somehow their son was not wrong. They completely think now and then that he WAS wrong. They did all the right things that they thought they should do, both to get their son help and to help the other children, and their family.

Good freaking grief. Just because someone is very opinionated about moral issues and such, doesn't mean they don't make mistakes, fall from grace or any other thing of that sort. This family obviously suffered - but they WORKED to get things right again. They made decisions to HELP affect positive change in their own family. How is that wrong? They know right from wrong - they aren't "immune" from doing wrong and never do they claim to be immune from doing wrong. It's what you do to correct that wrong, that counts. It seems to me, from what I have seen in the interviews and such that they have done all they could in order to correct those wrongs.

I find it astounding that at the same time, a lot of these critics of the Duggars believe Bruce Jenner taking female hormones, growing tits, long hair, and fingernails and dressing up like Jayne Mansfield and posing on the cover of Vanity Fair is considered totally okay and perfectly fine because "that's who s/he feels like s/he is" and is not considered a mental illness.

Actually the records were not sealed because josh was an adult when the report was taken. If they wanted the protections of the juvenile system they should have reported it before he turned 18.

But Cate says that the Springdale Police Department did not break any laws. "On May 20, 2015," his statement reads, "in full compliance with Arkansas law, the Springdale Police Department responded to a records request under the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act.

"The requested record was not sealed or expunged, and at the time the report was filed, the person listed in the report was an adult," the statement says.

"Any names of minors included in the report, as well as pronouns, were redacted from the report by the Springdale Police Department in compliance with Arkansas law prior to release."

http://www.people.com/article/josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-records-released-compliance-law


Also, people need to put the blame on the responsible parties. The media didn't do anything to these girls. Josh molested them and their parents covered it up until it was public information when it was finally reported. THEN the parents started down their '15 mins of fame' path. They chose the limelight.

Any negatives that came out of this are the result of Josh and his parents actions. Those girls were crying because josh molested them. Its a shame that the choices of the parents to delay reporting and then seek fame caused their daughters' victimization to be made public.

 

[Bann]

Actually the records were not sealed because josh was an adult when the report was taken. If they wanted the protections of the juvenile system they should have reported it before he turned 18.

The records were not sealed BUT they should have been, according to Judge Stacy Zimmerman. Josh was a MINOR when he confessed these incidents to the police. It was up to the police to prosecute, and at that time, they did not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: There was also pushback today on the Duggars claim that the police report detailing Josh's behavior was improperly released. The city attorney of Springdale who authorized the disclosure here said to The Kelly File tonight that the police report was not under seal or protected by law. He says Josh, while a minor, when he committed these acts, was 18 at the time the police investigated his behavior. The Duggar Family says that's nonsense, saying the records were protected. It turns out a judge agrees with them. "The Kelly File" confirming that an Arkansas juvenile court judge, Stacy Zimmerman has issued an order siding with the Duggars finding that the release year was illegal and that these records should never have been produced. She ordered the police to destroy any remaining copies. So the judge says one thing, the city attorney says another. Who's right? Joining me now, Arthur Aidala, Fox News Legal Analyst and Criminal Defense Attorney and Mark Eiglarsh who is also a Criminal Defense Attorney and a Former Prosecutor. Mark, who's right?

EIGLARSH: But I know what Arthur is going to say, I know how he thinks. The statute is very clear. Let's go to the Arkansas code 928217. It makes it very clear that any reports, any memorandums, correspondents concerning juveniles shall -- meaning must not be released to the public. There are a number of exceptions and "In Touch Weekly" is not on the list. I'll tell you this. The investigation didn't start when he was an adult. It started when he was a juvenile in 2003, when he walked into the police station and confessed his involvement in these abhorrent offenses.http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2...ggars-respond-to-their-critics-on-kelly-file/

 

[PsyOps]

I don't really understand what the haters hope to accomplish with all this vitriol toward Josh Duggar. Just to trash him because you all have nothing better to think about? This situation has been resolved for years. Years! So why is it still a thing?

This is the war on Christianity. Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl, at which he fled the country to evade prosecution. He is praised by the Hollywood crowd. He receive an stinking academy award in which the Hollywood loons gave him huge cheers. The same type of people that are condemning Josh Duggar for what he did at 14, are silent with the likes of Polanski. When there are so many other really bad 'actors' in our entertainment industry, and their behavior is not only ignored but some are cheered as heroes, it's pretty obvious to me what this is about.

 

[Midnightrider]

The records were not sealed BUT they should have been, according to Judge Stacy Zimmerman. Josh was a MINOR when he confessed these incidents to the police. It was up to the police to prosecute, and at that time, they did not.

He wasn't a minor at the time the police report in question was taken. BUt that is really beside the point. Josh is the person responsible for his sister's distress, not the media. Josh molested them and their parents chose to become reality stars knowing that this was out there. Its a shame, but they have no one to blame but family.

This is the war on Christianity. Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl, at which he fled the country to evade prosecution. He is praised by the Hollywood crowd. He receive an stinking academy award in which the Hollywood loons gave him huge cheers. The same type of people that are condemning Josh Duggar for what he did at 14, are silent with the likes of Polanski. When there are so many other really bad 'actors' in our entertainment industry, and their behavior is not only ignored but some are cheered as heroes, it's pretty obvious to me what this is about.

no, we aren't. We are condeming both, this isn't an either or.
You on the otherhand are trying to say that Polanski was wrong but that the duggars should get a pass.

 

[vraiblonde]

You on the otherhand are trying to say that Polanski was wrong but that the duggars should get a pass.

So you think that what Josh Duggar did is on the same moral level as what Polanski did?

Anyway, we've been discussing this for over two weeks. That is ridiculous and WAY! more attention than it deserves. So why this national obsession with someone that most people don't even know who he is?

 

[Midnightrider]

So you think that what Josh Duggar did is on the same moral level as what Polanski did?

Anyway, we've been discussing this for over two weeks. That is ridiculous and WAY! more attention than it deserves. So why this national obsession with someone that most people don't even know who he is?

I'm not the one trying to draw comparisions, Psy is. But yes, molesting girls in their sleep is on the same morally bankrupt 'level' as drugging one and molesting them.

Its a "national obesssion" (not that i agree with that charecterization) because the Duggars attention whored their family into a position of B rate 'fame'.....

 

[Bann]

He wasn't a minor at the time the police report in question was taken. BUt that is really beside the point.

No - that IS the point. The first time he reported it was a confession to the police. You and the city attorney, and the Chief of Police are skating around on thin ice with semantics. It just so happens a JUDGE thinks so, too, so she had the records destroyed.

You can argue all day with the Arkansas statute, doesn't make you right. :shrug:

 

[Midnightrider]

No - that IS the point. The first time he reported it was a confession to the police. You and the city attorney, and the Chief of Police are skating around on thin ice with semantics. It just so happens a JUDGE thinks so, too, so she had the records destroyed.

You can argue all day with the Arkansas statute, doesn't make you right. :shrug:

Judges can be wrong too you know, the city attorney seems to think the law is on their side.

what is not in question is that at the time of the 2006 report Josh was an adult and the recoprds were not sealed.


remember, this is the point :

Josh is the person responsible for his sister's distress, not the media. Josh molested them and their parents chose to become reality stars knowing that this was out there. Its a shame, but they have no one to blame but family.

 

[Bann]

Judges can be wrong too you know, the city attorney seems to think the law is on their side.

what is not in question is that at the time of the 2006 report Josh was an adult and the recoprds were not sealed.

remember, this is the point :

Josh is the person responsible for his sister's distress, not the media. Josh molested them and their parents chose to become reality stars knowing that this was out there. Its a shame, but they have no one to blame but family.

Have the last word. The state law speaks for itself.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm not the one trying to draw comparisions, Psy is. But yes, molesting girls in their sleep is on the same morally bankrupt 'level' as drugging one and molesting them.

Plus in one instance we're talking about a young teenager; in the other we're talking about an adult man.

But if you think that's the same thing, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Midnightrider]

Have the last word. The state law speaks for itself.

what law was broken by the city attorney when they released the FOIA info?
Because the city attorney and police cheif say none.


why dont you try putting the blame where it belongs, on the molester?

Or do you blame the media for all molestations?

 

[Midnightrider]

Plus in one instance we're talking about a young teenager; in the other we're talking about an adult man.

But if you think that's the same thing, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

so you think the age of the molestor makes it worse?

I think being molested by a family member and then being forced to live with your molester is a pretty rough row to hoe.

 

[GURPS]

.... drugging one and molesting them.

Polanski sodomized that teen age girl, he was an adult

 

[vraiblonde]

so you think the age of the molestor makes it worse?

I think being molested by a family member and then being forced to live with your molester is a pretty rough row to hoe.

And I think you're manufacturing outrage and going somewhat off the rails in your zeal to do so.

The girls have already said they don't even remember it, or if they do they're over it. For some reason you've decided to not be over it on their behalf, and I know you have better things to worry about. This can't possibly be the most important thing in your world.

You're to the point that you have equated an adult man who drugged, raped, and sodomized a 13 year old girl to a young teenage boy who fondled a girl. Those are not even close to equal. They're just not and you're not going to convince too many people that they are.

-30-

 

[Midnightrider]

Polanski sodomized that teen age girl, he was an adult

duggar molested that 5 yo and he was her brother :shrug:

 

[Midnightrider]

And I think you're manufacturing outrage and going somewhat off the rails in your zeal to do so.

The girls have already said they don't even remember it, or if they do they're over it. For some reason you've decided to not be over it on their behalf, and I know you have better things to worry about. This can't possibly be the most important thing in your world.

You're to the point that you have equated an adult man who drugged, raped, and sodomized a 13 year old girl to a young teenage boy who fondled a girl. Those are not even close to equal. They're just not and you're not going to convince too many people that they are.

-30-

i never once said they were equal, nor am i "outraged".

I just see both as sexual assualt. you can try to excuse one if you want, but you know deep down that you wouldn't if either the rape or the molestation happened to your daughter. you can BS around that if you want, but we both know its true.


BTW, those girls didn't look to 'over it' in that interview. That was real emotional distress they were showing and it was the result of being molested. Put the blame where it belongs.

 

[This_person]

Josh is the person responsible for his sister's distress, not the media. Josh molested them and their parents chose to become reality stars knowing that this was out there. Its a shame, but they have no one to blame but family.

Josh was responsible for the distress a dozen or more years ago. That distress had been dealt with, forgiven, and the victims able to move on.

The media are responsible for the current - day revictimization. Their stress today is not the result of what they went through back then, but rather what they're going through today. The loss of privacy on such an intimate issue is a traumatic event in and of itself.

That the family put themselves on TV does not mitigate their privacy on issues they choose to not make public. Ignorant bastards that would make such an incident public are truly disgusting.

 

[vraiblonde]

i never once said they were equal, nor am i "outraged".

I just see both as sexual assualt. you can try to excuse one if you want, but you know deep down that you wouldn't if either the rape or the molestation happened to your daughter. you can BS around that if you want, but we both know its true.


BTW, those girls didn't look to 'over it' in that interview. That was real emotional distress they were showing and it was the result of being molested. Put the blame where it belongs.

Why do you have such an obsessive vendetta against this Duggar person?

 

[PsyOps]

Why do you have such an obsessive vendetta against this Duggar person?

They are Christians. Midnight has a certain antipathy towards Christians. Given they live this life of morals and such, a Christian child MUST be held to a higher standard of accountability than a pedophile adult.