Dugger vs Dunham

[PsyOps]

no, we aren't. We are condeming both, this isn't an either or.
You on the otherhand are trying to say that Polanski was wrong but that the duggars should get a pass.

You make obvious that you really don't read what people post. I have posted numerous times that NO ONE - ME INCLUDED - approves of what Josh Duggar did. No one gives him a pass. I'm certainly not going to put what a 14 year old on the same plane as what an adult does. The family dealt with it. It's over. Yet you haters just want to stir #### up in peoples' lives to ruin their lives - things that happened 14 years ago; the family has long since moved past this - all because you have a problem with their lifestyle. The kid screwed up. The family dealt with it. Josh has long since married and has kids. Two of the girls are now married and have kids. They all seem to be well-adjusted despite the incidents. No evidence of this ever happening again since he got help. The show has been pulled and you're still not happy. Let it go for crying out loud.

 

[Midnightrider]

Why do you have such an obsessive vendetta against this Duggar person?

I have no vendetta, nor am I obsessed.

They are Christians. Midnight has a certain antipathy towards Christians. Given they live this life of morals and such, a Christian child MUST be held to a higher standard of accountability than a pedophile adult.

That's retarded. Please show where I have made any comments regarding the Duggars religion or said I thought they should be held to a higher standard. They should be held to exactly the same standard as everyone else.

You make obvious that you really don't read what people post. I have posted numerous times that NO ONE - ME INCLUDED - approves of what Josh Duggar did. No one gives him a pass. I'm certainly not going to put what a 14 year old on the same plane as what an adult does. The family dealt with it. It's over. Yet you haters just want to stir #### up in peoples' lives to ruin their lives - things that happened 14 years ago; the family has long since moved past this - all because you have a problem with their lifestyle. The kid screwed up. The family dealt with it. Josh has long since married and has kids. Two of the girls are now married and have kids. They all seem to be well-adjusted despite the incidents. No evidence of this ever happening again since he got help. The show has been pulled and you're still not happy. Let it go for crying out loud.

:kilingme

Maybe you should give it a try some time.....

There certainly are people that are dismissing his actions as 'fondling' by a teenager. V, jinx, and TP think and have said this was normal. It ain't. It was molestation. That's my problem with it.

Now I will challenge you to go back and read all of my posts on the subject and then show where I have criticized their lifestyle or religion in any way. My knock with them is that they did not report a very serious crime.

 

[Midnightrider]

Josh was responsible for the distress a dozen or more years ago. That distress had been dealt with, forgiven, and the victims able to move on.

The media are responsible for the current - day revictimization. Their stress today is not the result of what they went through back then, but rather what they're going through today. The loss of privacy on such an intimate issue is a traumatic event in and of itself.

That the family put themselves on TV does not mitigate their privacy on issues they choose to not make public. Ignorant bastards that would make such an incident public are truly disgusting.

No, what is disgusting is that a guy molested his sisters and it obviously affected them. They weren't upset by the attention or notoriety of being a public figure. The family had been for years, and not just on their show. Their privacy was sold. They were fine with it.

I agree that they were 'revictimized' I just disagree on who was responsible for that. Their brother hold most of that responsibility, their parents the rest. The media only found a public record. Josh committed the crime.

 

[vraiblonde]

No, what is disgusting is that a guy molested his sisters and it obviously affected them. They weren't upset by the attention or notoriety of being a public figure. The family had been for years, and not just on their show. Their privacy was sold. They were fine with it.

Well, you certainly know the Duggar girls better than their parents or anyone else, so I will defer to your expertise.

 

[vraiblonde]

I have no vendetta, nor am I obsessed.

obsess
[uh b-ses]

verb (used with object)
1.
to dominate or preoccupy the thoughts, feelings, or desires of (a person); beset, trouble, or haunt persistently or abnormally:
Suspicion obsessed him.
verb (used without object)
2.
to think about something unceasingly or persistently; dwell obsessively upon something.


vendetta
[ven-det-uh]

noun
1.
a private feud in which the members of the family of a murdered person seek to avenge the murder by killing the slayer or one of the slayer's relatives, especially such vengeance as once practiced in Corsica and parts of Italy.
2.
any prolonged and bitter feud, rivalry, contention, or the like:
a political vendetta.

If you say so.

 

[This_person]

No, what is disgusting is that a guy molested his sisters and it obviously affected them. They weren't upset by the attention or notoriety of being a public figure. The family had been for years, and not just on their show. Their privacy was sold. They were fine with it.

I agree that they were 'revictimized' I just disagree on who was responsible for that. Their brother hold most of that responsibility, their parents the rest. The media only found a public record. Josh committed the crime.

I do find the molestation morally reprehensible, but the traumatic events the girls face this decade are the release of private information. The family is on TV, but they don't show them in the bathroom or their first make out session or getting a pap smear or any of a number of intimate, private situations. Saying that they are fine with it because they televise their vacations and birthday parties is pretty weak, even for your positions.

There are two traumatizing events and one was long since over, the other a new one by a vindictive group out to harm the family. It's very clear.

 

[Midnightrider]

Well, you certainly know the Duggar girls better than their parents or anyone else, so I will defer to your expertise.

Which part are you disagreeing with, that it is disgusting he molested his sisters or that their parents sold their privacy and they enjoyed the limelight?

 

[Midnightrider]

obsess
[uh b-ses]

verb (used with object)
1.
to dominate or preoccupy the thoughts, feelings, or desires of (a person); beset, trouble, or haunt persistently or abnormally:
Suspicion obsessed him.
verb (used without object)
2.
to think about something unceasingly or persistently; dwell obsessively upon something.


vendetta
[ven-det-uh]

noun
1.
a private feud in which the members of the family of a murdered person seek to avenge the murder by killing the slayer or one of the slayer's relatives, especially such vengeance as once practiced in Corsica and parts of Italy.
2.
any prolonged and bitter feud, rivalry, contention, or the like:
a political vendetta.

If you say so.

Looks like everyone on somd is obsessed about everything.

 

[PsyOps]

Maybe you should give it a try some time.....

There certainly are people that are dismissing his actions as 'fondling' by a teenager. V, jinx, and TP think and have said this was normal. It ain't. It was molestation. That's my problem with it.

Now I will challenge you to go back and read all of my posts on the subject and then show where I have criticized their lifestyle or religion in any way. My knock with them is that they did not report a very serious crime.

Here we go again. You obvious have not read the police report where it stated that the ‘crime/incident’ was “Forcible FONDLING”. I completely get you’re going to find a way to exaggerate this into RAPE or some other heavier crime; so you just right into your MO of making up your own facts to make yourself right.

If you’re not on this obsession with the Duggars because of their religion, then perhaps you could enlighten us all as to why you're are so obsessed with something that happened 14 years ago, Josh was a child, the kids forgave him, the family resolved the problem, there is no evidence he ever did it again; and as far as the family is concerned is done and over with. Why isn’t it done and over with with you?

 

[PsyOps]

Looks like everyone on somd is obsessed about everything.

The other obsession you have................................ denial!

 

[rdytogo]

Here we go again. You obvious have not read the police report where it stated that the ‘crime/incident’ was “Forcible FONDLING”. I completely get you’re going to find a way to exaggerate this into RAPE or some other heavier crime; so you just right into your MO of making up your own facts to make yourself right.

Originally Posted by Midnightrider

Maybe you should give it a try some time.....

There certainly are people that are dismissing his actions as 'fondling' by a teenager. V, jinx, and TP think and have said this was normal. It ain't. It was molestation. That's my problem with it.

Now I will challenge you to go back and read all of my posts on the subject and then show where I have criticized their lifestyle or religion in any way. My knock with them is that they did not report a very serious crime.

I haven't read much else in this thread, but where is he making this more than what it is? Forcible FONDLING sounds pretty serious to me!

 

[PsyOps]

I haven't read much else in this thread, but where is he making this more than what it is? Forcible FONDLING sounds pretty serious to me!

Why because of the word 'forcible'. That word only mean 'unwelcome' or 'against one's will'. What would you view as worse 'child molestation' or 'forcible fondling'? Don't get me wrong; I think it's bad. But it doesn't rise to the level of what I see Midnight asserting it is.

The way I read "There certainly are people that are dismissing his actions as 'fondling' by a teenager" as people are downplaying this whole thing as a teen just fondling some kids when it's far worse than that. I'm saying "no it's not". By saying that, I am NOT trying to marginalize the seriousness of Josh's actions. His actions are deplorable. But they DO NOT rise to the level of rape. That's not even my point. This was a long-resolved issue within the Duggar family that was taken care of.

Folks seem to think that because the Duggars decided to do a TV show, that every aspect of their lives is open game; therefore some are going to exploit with a vengeance that I can only conclude is born out of a certain level of hatred for them. I really am not able to rationalize this vendetta any other way. Midnight, and all the others that seem bent on disparaging this family over this have yet to explain why the obsession over it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Forcible FONDLING sounds pretty serious to me!

Sure does. Sounds like he held her down and molested her while she screamed and cried. That's why the Duggar haters keep saying it.

Unfortunately for them, that's not the way it happened.

 

[vraiblonde]

Midnight, and all the others that seem bent on disparaging this family over this have yet to explain why the obsession over it.

We, and the media, did not talk about Robin Williams' death for this long.

Just sayin'...

 

[rdytogo]

Why because of the word 'forcible'. That word only mean 'unwelcome' or 'against one's will'. What would you view as worse 'child molestation' or 'forcible fondling'? Don't get me wrong; I think it's bad. But it doesn't rise to the level of what I see Midnight asserting it is.

No, it was the fondling which made me believe it was a serious crime. Forced, coerced or done without one's consent is the same to me.

 

[rdytogo]

Sure does. Sounds like he held her down and molested her while she screamed and cried. That's why the Duggar haters keep saying it.

Unfortunately for them, that's not the way it happened.

If that is the image the charge invokes, so be it. I like the Duggars and will be sorry to see the show end. That doesn't change my mind that this guy is a creep and hasn't been held accountable for his actions. There are people on here who are dismissing his actions as juvenile behavior. I don't see it that way. I think juveniles are capable of experimentation, but when they continue that behavior after getting caught, in my opinion, it's quite a bit more than that!

 

[This_person]

No, it was the fondling which made me believe it was a serious crime. Forced, coerced or done without one's consent is the same to me.

This is only a point of discussion because of asinine positions like

[Y]es, molesting girls in their sleep is on the same morally bankrupt 'level' as drugging one and molesting them.

Which were in response to whether Duggar and Polanski had actions that should be viewed as the same. No reasonable person could believe that the two are comparable. What Duggar did was clearly wrong, on the order of an eighth grader smacking around a kindergartener on the playground. What Polanski did was clearly wrong, on the order of a grown man slicing up a seventh grader one piece at a time while laughing at their pain as they slowly bled to death.

I don't see those two things as morally equivalent, but MR did, then said that he never said that, and then defended as being accurate while claiming it isn't.

That's why we're even discussing it.

 

[rdytogo]

I don't see those two things as morally equivalent, but MR did, then said that he never said that, and then defended as being accurate while claiming it isn't.

That's why we're even discussing it.

Your analogy's are disturbing. Are you equating what Duggar did to slapping a child on a playground? If so, then you lose me.

As far as the rest of what you wrote, I completely agree that Polanski's crime was much greater. He raped the girl. If, however he had just drugged her and sexually assaulted her as did Duggar, then I would see no difference. Both crimes however are morally reprehensible. I'm not sure if there is a degree of morally reprehensible greater than the other. Different, but one is no less criminal than the other.

 

[PsyOps]

We, and the media, did not talk about Robin Williams' death for this long.

Just sayin'...

And again, while I know Midnight doesn't condone what Polanski did, Hollywood propped this child rapist up as a hero; the Hollywood crowd cheered this man and the media (and people like Midnight) was silent. This is what makes it blatantly obvious to me that it's about their faith and an opportunity for the anti-Christian crowd to find another way to point out what hypocrites Christians are.

 

[Midnightrider]

Here we go again. You obvious have not read the police report where it stated that the ‘crime/incident’ was “Forcible FONDLING”. I completely get you’re going to find a way to exaggerate this into RAPE or some other heavier crime; so you just right into your MO of making up your own facts to make yourself right.

If you’re not on this obsession with the Duggars because of their religion, then perhaps you could enlighten us all as to why you're are so obsessed with something that happened 14 years ago, Josh was a child, the kids forgave him, the family resolved the problem, there is no evidence he ever did it again; and as far as the family is concerned is done and over with. Why isn’t it done and over with with you?

Keep building those straw men, it will be easier than fining where I called this rape

I haven't read much else in this thread, but where is he making this more than what it is? Forcible FONDLING sounds pretty serious to me!

Thank you. Many here want to pretend this was nothing and normal but we all know they would be signing a different tune if a 14 yo molested their 5, 8, 10, or 12 yo.

Why because of the word 'forcible'. That word only mean 'unwelcome' or 'against one's will'. What would you view as worse 'child molestation' or 'forcible fondling'? Don't get me wrong; I think it's bad. But it doesn't rise to the level of what I see Midnight asserting it is.

The way I read "There certainly are people that are dismissing his actions as 'fondling' by a teenager" as people are downplaying this whole thing as a teen just fondling some kids when it's far worse than that. I'm saying "no it's not". By saying that, I am NOT trying to marginalize the seriousness of Josh's actions. His actions are deplorable. But they DO NOT rise to the level of rape. That's not even my point. This was a long-resolved issue within the Duggar family that was taken care of.

Folks seem to think that because the Duggars decided to do a TV show, that every aspect of their lives is open game; therefore some are going to exploit with a vengeance that I can only conclude is born out of a certain level of hatred for them. I really am not able to rationalize this vendetta any other way. Midnight, and all the others that seem bent on disparaging this family over this have yet to explain why the obsession over it.

molestation

n. the crime of sexual acts with children up to the age of 18, including touching of private parts, exposure of genitalia, taking of pornographic pictures, rape, inducement of sexual acts with the molester or with other children, and variations of these acts by pedophiles. Molestation also applies to incest by a relative with a minor family member, and any unwanted sexual acts with adults short of rape

Words have meaning. What josh Duggar did was molestation. I am not asserting that it was anything other than the unwanted touching of the private parts of his sisters and one other girl.
If you go back and read the thread you will see many who have dismissed this as normal or 'playing doctor'. It wasn't.

While you are looking for those other things you claim I have said maybe you can find where I disparaged the family. I just disagree with the way they handled it and think josh hasn't owned up to his actions.