Dugger vs Dunham

[officeguy]

and how exactly is this a coverup ?

The coverup is that back when this happened, the elders of the church arranged for the perpetrator and the victims to receive counseling rather than involving the juvenile justice system. The second stage of the coverup was when a state trooper was informally involved and he failed to act in a timely manner once he received information of a criminal act. When in 2006, the allegations finally made it to the Springdale PD, the statute of limitations had expired as the involvement of the trooper started the clock. The elders may be able to weasel out of their obligation to report abuse as the statute says 'clergy member', but a police officer who is informed of a crime against minors doesn't have that option.

The outcome would probably not have been any different. Juvi authorities would have sent Josh to counseling and it would have been expunged once he reached the age of majority. By all accounts, he managed to move past this, no reason to believe that the outcome would have been any better had the juvi authorities been involved. They are notorious for their f###-ups, so I can understand why a religious community would try to handle this internally. But then again, when the catholic church handled their abuse problem internally, everyone got upset, so I guess there is no way to win this one.

 

[Hijinx]

The coverup is that back when this happened, the elders of the church arranged for the perpetrator and the victims to receive counseling rather than involving the juvenile justice system. The second stage of the coverup was when a state trooper was informally involved and he failed to act in a timely manner once he received information of a criminal act. When in 2006, the allegations finally made it to the Springdale PD, the statute of limitations had expired as the involvement of the trooper started the clock. The elders may be able to weasel out of their obligation to report abuse as the statute says 'clergy member', but a police officer who is informed of a crime against minors doesn't have that option.

The outcome would probably not have been any different. Juvi authorities would have sent Josh to counseling and it would have been expunged once he reached the age of majority. By all accounts, he managed to move past this, no reason to believe that the outcome would have been any better had the juvi authorities been involved. They are notorious for their f###-ups, so I can understand why a religious community would try to handle this internally. But then again, when the catholic church handled their abuse problem internally, everyone got upset, so I guess there is no way to win this one.

The Catholic Church never never handled it at all. They just hid the pedophiles and that is why the Church is upset.

 

[officeguy]

The Catholic Church never never handled it at all. They just hid the pedophiles and that is why the Church is upset.

There was a pattern to it. The first two allegations, they just moved the priests around to new congregations. If they couldn't keep it in the pants, they were moved to some nursing home ministry where they wouldn't have altar boys or youth groups. If that didn't work, they were sent to one of their 'perv holding tanks' (officially 'treatment center'). Many other churches do the same with their drinking or drugged out clergy.

 

[PsyOps]

The coverup is that back when this happened, the elders of the church arranged for the perpetrator and the victims to receive counseling rather than involving the juvenile justice system. The second stage of the coverup was when a state trooper was informally involved and he failed to act in a timely manner once he received information of a criminal act. When in 2006, the allegations finally made it to the Springdale PD, the statute of limitations had expired as the involvement of the trooper started the clock. The elders may be able to weasel out of their obligation to report abuse as the statute says 'clergy member', but a police officer who is informed of a crime against minors doesn't have that option.

The outcome would probably not have been any different. Juvi authorities would have sent Josh to counseling and it would have been expunged once he reached the age of majority. By all accounts, he managed to move past this, no reason to believe that the outcome would have been any better had the juvi authorities been involved. They are notorious for their f###-ups, so I can understand why a religious community would try to handle this internally. But then again, when the catholic church handled their abuse problem internally, everyone got upset, so I guess there is no way to win this one.

The Duggars didn’t even have to get the ‘religious community’ involved, let alone the cops. He was 14 for crying out loud! You’re acting like this was some crazed 23 year old sex offender molesting a 13 year old. This is the sort of thing that should be dealt with between the families. Jim Bob makes Josh apologize to family. Jim Bob punishes Josh. DONE! I think this is what’s so ####ed up about our society today… we want to call the cops on everything our kids do wrong, when all we need is some stinking parenting.

Is there anything you feel didn’t work in Josh’s counseling, that he someone continued with his depraved behavior for the reason you’re taking this extreme position?

 

[Hijinx]

There was a pattern to it. The first two allegations, they just moved the priests around to new congregations. If they couldn't keep it in the pants, they were moved to some nursing home ministry where they wouldn't have altar boys or youth groups. If that didn't work, they were sent to one of their 'perv holding tanks' (officially 'treatment center'). Many other churches do the same with their drinking or drugged out clergy.

The way to solve the Pedo problem in any Church is to call the Sheriff and press charges. Don't fool around with clergy, Bishops or Cardinals and don't let them talk you out of the charges by asking that you protect the Church. Protect your child.

 

[Midnightrider]

The Catholic Church never never handled it at all. They just hid the pedophiles and that is why the Church is upset.

So it is a problem for the church to handle sexual abuse internally and not call the police? Why would that be any different for Duggar?

 

[Midnightrider]

The Duggars didn’t even have to get the ‘religious community’ involved, let alone the cops. He was 14 for crying out loud! You’re acting like this was some crazed 23 year old sex offender molesting a 13 year old. This is the sort of thing that should be dealt with between the families. Jim Bob makes Josh apologize to family. Jim Bob punishes Josh. DONE! I think this is what’s so ####ed up about our society today… we want to call the cops on everything our kids do wrong, when all we need is some stinking parenting.

Is there anything you feel didn’t work in Josh’s counseling, that he someone continued with his depraved behavior for the reason you’re taking this extreme position?

How about since it wasn't reported to the police we really don't know the extent of his perversion. He might not have fussed up to everything. There may be victims out there that are living with being molested who will get no justice.

Are you saying if some 14 boy touched your daughter in her sleep you wouldn't call the police?

 

[officeguy]

The way to solve the Pedo problem in any Church is to call the Sheriff and press charges. Don't fool around with clergy, Bishops or Cardinals and don't let them talk you out of the charges by asking that you protect the Church. Protect your child.

Agreed.

 

[officeguy]

The Duggars didn’t even have to get the ‘religious community’ involved, let alone the cops. He was 14 for crying out loud! You’re acting like this was some crazed 23 year old sex offender molesting a 13 year old. This is the sort of thing that should be dealt with between the families. Jim Bob makes Josh apologize to family. Jim Bob punishes Josh. DONE! I think this is what’s so ####ed up about our society today… we want to call the cops on everything our kids do wrong, when all we need is some stinking parenting.

If your 12 year old daughter came to you and told you about what happened, you wouldn't let it go with a dad to dad talk.

 

[PsyOps]

so it is a problem for the church to handle sexual abuse internally and not call the police? Why would that be any different for duggar?

because the kid was 14 fondling other 14 year olds, not 65 raping 14 year olds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Midnightrider]

because the kid was 14 fondling other 14 year olds, not 65 raping 16 year olds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I need to ask in big bold letters?

Are you saying if some 14 boy touched your daughter in her sleep you wouldn't call the police?


BTW, I don't think they have said how old the various girls were or exactly what constituted what you so easily dismiss as 'fondling'.

 

[PsyOps]

Do I need to ask in big bold letters?

Are you saying if some 14 boy touched your daughter in her sleep you wouldn't call the police?


BTW, I don't think they have said how old the various girls were or exactly what constituted what you so easily dismiss as 'fondling'.

You seem to have very little understanding of the mind of a 14 year old. But since you NEVER like to do your own homework….. HERE is the police report. Crime/Incident: Forcible Fondling.

I’ll answer your trap question from both sides. But I will qualify my comments with – I have raised two kids; a boy and a girl. Both are now adults. So I am qualified to provide this answer.

If my son had done such a thing, I would have marched him over to each girl’s home and he would not only apologize to the girls, but he would apologize to the parents. Then, if I felt it was necessary, I would get him help. Otherwise, he’s getting locked in his room for a very long time with some very interesting books to read, in which he will write reports on, until I was absolutely certain he got the message about what he had done wrong. It’s about parenting. It’s about PARENTS holding their children accountable. I happen to think this is a far better tool for correcting your child than having then deemed sex offenders.

If it were my daughter this had happened to, I would take her to the boy’s house, reveal this to his parents, and demand an apology and that something will be done about this bad behavior. If the parents and boy was defiant, then I am likely to tell them to expect the police at their door soon. But I would have at least made the effort to remedy the situation internally.

Unlike you… I have no desire to ruin a 14 year old kid’s life when these things can easily be handled without having him deemed a sex offender at 14. I understand that a kid at 14 is going to do stupid things that they don’t completely understand the consequences of. It’s my job as a parent to make sure they get it. The law is only going to PUNISH; not teach lessons.

Josh Duggar not only apologized, but he asked for each girl’s forgiveness; which he got. Josh Duggar went on with his life, the problem dealt with; but now, almost 10 years later folks want to dredge #### up because it’s an opportunity to bash Christians; that is at the root of all of this.

 

[LibertyBeacon]

But since you NEVER like to do your own homework…..

I've had my Recommended Daily Allowance of irony for the day.

G'nite.

 

[Bann]

because the kid was 14 fondling other 14 year olds, not 65 raping 14 year olds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You seem to have very little understanding of the mind of a 14 year old. But since you NEVER like to do your own homework….. HERE is the police report. Crime/Incident: Forcible Fondling.

I’ll answer your trap question from both sides. But I will qualify my comments with – I have raised two kids; a boy and a girl. Both are now adults. So I am qualified to provide this answer.

If my son had done such a thing, I would have marched him over to each girl’s home and he would not only apologize to the girls, but he would apologize to the parents. Then, if I felt it was necessary, I would get him help. Otherwise, he’s getting locked in his room for a very long time with some very interesting books to read, in which he will write reports on, until I was absolutely certain he got the message about what he had done wrong. It’s about parenting. It’s about PARENTS holding their children accountable. I happen to think this is a far better tool for correcting your child than having then deemed sex offenders.

If it were my daughter this had happened to, I would take her to the boy’s house, reveal this to his parents, and demand an apology and that something will be done about this bad behavior. If the parents and boy was defiant, then I am likely to tell them to expect the police at their door soon. But I would have at least made the effort to remedy the situation internally.

Unlike you… I have no desire to ruin a 14 year old kid’s life when these things can easily be handled without having him deemed a sex offender at 14. I understand that a kids at 14 is going to do stupid things that they don’t completely understand the consequences of. It’s my job as a parent to make sure they get it. The law is only going to PUNISH; not teach lessons.

Josh Duggar not only apologized, but he asked for each girl’s forgiveness; which he got. Josh Duggar went on with his life, the problem dealt with; but now, almost 10 years later folks want to dredge #### up because it’s an opportunity to bash Christians; that is at the root of all of this.

I agree with Psy and Vrai.

 

[PsyOps]

I've had my Recommended Daily Allowance of irony for the day.

G'nite.

Well, we can always count on you for substance.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

My ole lady is the same age as I am and I grope her in her sleep all the time hoping for some morning or middle of the night lovin, she usually pushes me away, says get the f off me, etc depending on her mood (it even occasionally works) am I a sex offender?

 

[This_person]

Well, we can always count on you for substance.

You realize that if you keep using facts, logic, and making good sense from a personal-responsibility point of view they're only going to keep arguing, right?

 

[PeoplesElbow]

You seem to have very little understanding of the mind of a 14 year old. But since you NEVER like to do your own homework….. HERE is the police report. Crime/Incident: Forcible Fondling.

I’ll answer your trap question from both sides. But I will qualify my comments with – I have raised two kids; a boy and a girl. Both are now adults. So I am qualified to provide this answer.

If my son had done such a thing, I would have marched him over to each girl’s home and he would not only apologize to the girls, but he would apologize to the parents. Then, if I felt it was necessary, I would get him help. Otherwise, he’s getting locked in his room for a very long time with some very interesting books to read, in which he will write reports on, until I was absolutely certain he got the message about what he had done wrong. It’s about parenting. It’s about PARENTS holding their children accountable. I happen to think this is a far better tool for correcting your child than having then deemed sex offenders.

If it were my daughter this had happened to, I would take her to the boy’s house, reveal this to his parents, and demand an apology and that something will be done about this bad behavior. If the parents and boy was defiant, then I am likely to tell them to expect the police at their door soon. But I would have at least made the effort to remedy the situation internally.

Unlike you… I have no desire to ruin a 14 year old kid’s life when these things can easily be handled without having him deemed a sex offender at 14. I understand that a kid at 14 is going to do stupid things that they don’t completely understand the consequences of. It’s my job as a parent to make sure they get it. The law is only going to PUNISH; not teach lessons.

Josh Duggar not only apologized, but he asked for each girl’s forgiveness; which he got. Josh Duggar went on with his life, the problem dealt with; but now, almost 10 years later folks want to dredge #### up because it’s an opportunity to bash Christians; that is at the root of all of this.

What if it was your daughter that did it to the boy?

 

[LibertyBeacon]

Well, we can always count on you for substance.

 

[officeguy]

BTW, I don't think they have said how old the various girls were or exactly what constituted what you so easily dismiss as 'fondling'.

The redacted police report is online. Of course, the investigation was delayed by 4 years, most of the girls testimony is bound to be contaminated by that point. It is pretty clear that the 'treatment' Josh received was simply to be sent away to Little Rock to work for someone doing remodeling work. The duct-tape and baling wire approach to juvenile sex offender treatment.