Dugger vs Dunham

[vraiblonde]

it seems he learned his lesson and is living an honest and honorable fatherly life.

And my take is that he grew up and stopped being a yutz, as most teenage boys do.

But I'm glad AD brought up Roman Polanski. It's absurd to compare an adult man who drugs and rapes a 13 year old girl to a teenage boy who feels up a teenage girl, but the celebrity reaction is interesting. The "stars" are coming out of the woodwork to condemn Josh Duggar as an evil predator, yet they didn't say a word negative about Roman Polanski - they were too busy applauding when he won his Oscar.

Anyone remember when R. Kelly was boinking 13 year olds? Nobody seemed to care a lot about that.

Steven Tyler actually got his 14 year old girlfriend's parents to sign over custody to him so he could keep her as a sex slave.

The list of adult celebrities who are sex abusers is quite long, but....nah, to hell with them, let's talk about Josh Duggar when he was a teenager.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

 

[vraiblonde]

I seem to remember there was a thread on Polanski and I don't recall anyone cheering this guy.

Skip to :34 and watch the next 30 seconds or so.

 

[PsyOps]

Skip to :34 and watch the next 30 seconds or so.

I would say I am amazed, but this is the left... if you are dishonest, lying, child molester/rapist, abuser of power (Clinton/Lewinski) you are a hero; that is, as long as the liar, rapist, abuser is someone on the left.

If you handle things honestly, do what you believe is best for your own child, raise them in a very loving and moral climate, allow your faith to direct your actions in correcting wrongs, you are evil and should be shunned; you're a criminal.

 

[Bann]

And my take is that he grew up and stopped being a yutz, as most teenage boys do.

But I'm glad AD brought up Roman Polanski. It's absurd to compare an adult man who drugs and rapes a 13 year old girl to a teenage boy who feels up a teenage girl, but the celebrity reaction is interesting. The "stars" are coming out of the woodwork to condemn Josh Duggar as an evil predator, yet they didn't say a word negative about Roman Polanski - they were too busy applauding when he won his Oscar.

Anyone remember when R. Kelly was boinking 13 year olds? Nobody seemed to care a lot about that.

Steven Tyler actually got his 14 year old girlfriend's parents to sign over custody to him so he could keep her as a sex slave.

The list of adult celebrities who are sex abusers is quite long, but....nah, to hell with them, let's talk about Josh Duggar when he was a teenager.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

Then there was Elvis and Priscilla.

 

[vraiblonde]

Then there was Elvis and Priscilla.

Jerry Lee Lewis and his 12 year old cousin.

The list is long.

 

[PsyOps]

Jerry Lee Lewis and his 12 year old cousin.

The list is long.

And rational people frown on all of this. I frown on Josh's behavior. But there are ages that require parental intervention and there are ages that require the law. We seem to be unable to differentiate this in today's society; and I think this stems from a generation of parents that refuse to take responsibility for their own urchin.

 

[Amused_despair]

I think at some point you have to be as responsible for the daughters' safety as you are the son's.

 

[vraiblonde]

I think at some point you have to be as responsible for the daughters' safety as you are the son's.

So tell me...are you in favor of schools handing out birth control? Do you support Planned Parenthood not having to notify parents if a minor comes in for an abortion?

 

[Amused_despair]

In most cases when a child is 16 or older there is a lot the parent can not inquire about without the minor's permission. Insurance companies won't talk to you about services rendered, doctors won't talk to you about what they did, heck even internet service providers won't tell you their passwords. So in that circumstance I would say if it is covered under existing laws for privacy then no, they shouldn't be allowed to talk to the parents if a doctor can't talk to me about my child's last doctor appointment without the child present. As for handing out birth control? If it keeps some kid from getting some nasty disease or somebody becoming a parent before they finish middle school? Yes. A lot cheaper then paying to support the baby the next 18 years or paying for a lifetime of medical care.

 

[vraiblonde]

As for handing out birth control? If it keeps some kid from getting some nasty disease or somebody becoming a parent before they finish middle school? Yes. A lot cheaper then paying to support the baby the next 18 years or paying for a lifetime of medical care.

So you think the parents should only protect their daughters in *some* cases?

Anyway, don't answer that. I don't care. The Christian-hating hypocrisy has officially become boring. And that's exactly what it is. The Left despises this kid and his whole family because they don't march in Gay Pride parades, and that's the only reason this has become major news.

 

[PsyOps]

In most cases when a child is 16 or older there is a lot the parent can not inquire about without the minor's permission. Insurance companies won't talk to you about services rendered, doctors won't talk to you about what they did, heck even internet service providers won't tell you their passwords. So in that circumstance I would say if it is covered under existing laws for privacy then no, they shouldn't be allowed to talk to the parents if a doctor can't talk to me about my child's last doctor appointment without the child present. As for handing out birth control? If it keeps some kid from getting some nasty disease or somebody becoming a parent before they finish middle school? Yes. A lot cheaper then paying to support the baby the next 18 years or paying for a lifetime of medical care.

And this is just more indication of how things have changed. Parents have allowed an environment where ‘systems’ (schools, medical, legal, etc…) control the child’s destiny. They don’t want the responsibility anymore, so they hand it off to someone else and wash their hands of it.

My child at 16, living under my care, everything they have I paid for, I get everything: access, passwords, medical, school records, their sex life, etc… Otherwise they get nothing: no TV, no computer, no cell phone, no Facebook, if they are dishonest about their behavior and activities I’ll keep them in the house until I am convinced they will comply with MY rules.

But parents today allow the kids to rule and control their environment. Then we run around asking why our kids have gone bad. How pathetically ignorant.

 

[Amused_despair]

Not a question of not wanting the responsibility, it is a question of what is legally allowed. Try and argue with the person on the telephone form the doctor's office that since you pay the bills you should see their record, no matter what the law says. Let me know how that turns out. As for schools...when your kid is home-schooled there is no doubt that the school will control the child's destiny.

 

[Midnightrider]

No need to go on with this. You were honest and I appreciate that. You’d have your own 14 year old child convicted as a child molester and deemed a child predator and pedophile; thus yanked out of school, never able to be around children again (at least until he turns 18, at which time he would likely be reevaluated to determine if he is safe to exist in normal society), and forced out of any normal life; this all from (according to the Duggar charges) ‘forcible fondling’ – aka copping a feel.

I am old school where parents took care of the problems with their kids. You're of this new progressive thinking where even your own kid goes astray you'd call the cops on your own child. This is just a generational thing I suppose. And it explains why so many of us have this perception that parents just don't want to take responsibility for their own kids; they want to dump their problems on someone else - in this case you'd dump your problem on society. Then complain about how our kids have gone so wrong today. I don't personally begrudge this; I only say we get the society of bad kids we deserve when we, as parents, decide our own kids aren't responsibility anymore.

that's so retarded its funny. I am not and would not dump my kid on society. I would do everything in my power to help my kids. I would also make sure that they are held responsible when the commit a serious crime. You would rather cover up your boy's molesting several young girls than to have him own up to it like any adult would have to. If things happen the way duggar says they did then he probably would not have ended up being removed from the family, at least not for long and his juvenile record would be expunged when he turn 18. Its called taking responsibility for your actions. I know, its an old school value you young whippersnappers might not understand

Dude, you completely made that up. There has been no allegation that he laid a hand on the 4 year old. The report said girls, including one of his sisters. There was no mention of how old any of them were. So your whole basis for outrage is made up in your mind and not based on any fact.

So why don't you just admit why you hate this guy so much that you have to make up a bunch of crap about him?

All you have to do is read between the lines (and redactions) of the police report. they interviewed 5 sisters who had all been touched and one girl who was not a family member. The 5 oldest sisters when Josh was 14 ranged from 4 to 12. Nothing made up.

And this is just more indication of how things have changed. Parents have allowed an environment where ‘systems’ (schools, medical, legal, etc…) control the child’s destiny. They don’t want the responsibility anymore, so they hand it off to someone else and wash their hands of it.

My child at 16, living under my care, everything they have I paid for, I get everything: access, passwords, medical, school records, their sex life, etc… Otherwise they get nothing: no TV, no computer, no cell phone, no Facebook, if they are dishonest about their behavior and activities I’ll keep them in the house until I am convinced they will comply with MY rules.

But parents today allow the kids to rule and control their environment. Then we run around asking why our kids have gone bad. How pathetically ignorant.

See I would do all of those things AND make sure that they made it right with the authorities.

you might give your kid a pass on stealing your car. YOU might even give him 6 passes, I wouldn't. But as soon as you know he has stolen a neighbors car, you need to involve the police. What are you teaching him by not having him face the true punishment for his crime? This is more serious than a stolen car to me....

 

[GURPS]

And my take is that he grew up and stopped being a yutz, as most teenage boys do.

But I'm glad AD brought up Roman Polanski.

Ahem .... http://forums.somd.com/threads/300151-Dugger-vs-Dunham?p=5532303&viewfull=1#post5532303

 

[GURPS]

Not a question of not wanting the responsibility, it is a question of what is legally allowed.

until they are 18 they cannot make decisions for themselves, enter contracts etc .... except well get an abortion in fact the school nurse cannot give them an asprin, buy 16 / 17 they can go to the 'free clinic and make decisions about lethal medical procedures

 

[PsyOps]

that's so retarded its funny.

Well, I gave it my best shot, and you did about what I predicted you'd do.............. take cheap personal shot. You go back to the ignore category. Don't waste your time replying to my 'retarded' comments.

 

[PsyOps]

Not a question of not wanting the responsibility, it is a question of what is legally allowed. Try and argue with the person on the telephone form the doctor's office that since you pay the bills you should see their record, no matter what the law says. Let me know how that turns out. As for schools...when your kid is home-schooled there is no doubt that the school will control the child's destiny.

These 'laws' only exist because the people allow them to. And it seems (especially based on the replies in this thread) it's what people want - total unaccountability and responsibility to our children. It's unimaginable for me to believe I can't see my own child's medical records; who is completely dependent on me for everything, they do not survive without my full monetary support. We have allowed the government to strip us of every right we should have in regards to our so-called 'dependents'.

 

[Midnightrider]

Well, I gave it my best shot, and you did about what I predicted you'd do.............. take cheap personal shot. You go back to the ignore category. Don't waste your time replying to my 'retarded' comments.

if this strawman is your best shot you ought to just sign off

I am old school where parents took care of the problems with their kids. You're of this new progressive thinking where even your own kid goes astray you'd call the cops on your own child. This is just a generational thing I suppose. And it explains why so many of us have this perception that parents just don't want to take responsibility for their own kids; they want to dump their problems on someone else - in this case you'd dump your problem on society. Then complain about how our kids have gone so wrong today. I don't personally begrudge this; I only say we get the society of bad kids we deserve when we, as parents, decide our own kids aren't responsibility anymore.

as you should have predicted, I called you on a bunch of retarded BS

 

[PsyOps]

Ahem .... http://forums.somd.com/threads/300151-Dugger-vs-Dunham?p=5532303&viewfull=1#post5532303

Oh, pat yourself on the back.

Wait, let me help

:imissed:

 

[This_person]

if this strawman is your best shot you ought to just sign off



as you should have predicted, I called you on a bunch of retarded BS

It's not "retarded BS." It's a difference of opinion. Your opinion eventually came around to be "the state has the responsibility to properly discipline and provide help for my child if he feels up another child, so I demonstrate my parental responsibility by turning my child over to the state"; whereas my (and what I perceive Psy's) opinion is "I am responsible for my child so I provide the discipline and counseling for him myself, including making him confess and provide some form of restitution, all while working with the parents of the victims."

I don't understand your incessant need to belittle other people's opinions by calling them retarded and such. You and a certified licensed psychotherapist should really look into that.