Electric Car News

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member

I love that they used Lowley here, was one of my favorite book characters as a kid.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Sometimes you gotta make the call and decide what you are gonna do...

Apple first started working on its car project, known internally as "Project Titan," in 2014. At one point, it had around 5,000 workers dedicated to the effort. But Apple pivoted repeatedly over the last decade, oscillating between an emphasis on making an all-electric Tesla competitor and a fully-autonomous vehicle more akin to what Waymo has created.
 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
Great. An apple car.

Every year new model comes out with all the same features that they say are better but really are just the same, they cost $10000 more, when it’s two years old it will only operate at 35 miles an hour, at four it’s down to 20mph and two years after that stops working altogether as the Apple 12 Pro-MAX SE Ultra model arrives.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

More Hidden Risks of EVs


By Pete Colan


An EV will likely not exceed five digits on the odometer because the cost to replace the battery in the typical 10-year span of a battery life will exceed the vehicle’s resale value, therefore making it economically impractical.

Other authors have all cited valid facts about the impracticality of charging these things on long trips, the stress they will add to a fragile electric grid, the lack of enthusiasm in this country for adding additional reliable energy power plants, etc. None of this has made me want to rush right out and buy an EV, but just for the sake of developing a more complete picture, let’s peel another layer off the onion.

It should come as no surprise that insurance costs are also higher, not only because of their higher sticker price but because of the cost of specialty parts (including batteries), the lack of a specially-trained workforce to fix them, and the possibility that even a younger vehicle may be totaled if there was a damaged battery simply because of the cost of the battery.

Progressive Insurance sums it up nicely:

“Insurance costs for EVs and hybrid cars can be higher than for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles largely because they can be more expensive to repair and replace. For example, a new EV battery ranges between $4,000 and $20,000 depending on the make and model of your EV, compared to $100-200 for an ICE car battery. If the battery of an EV is damaged in an accident, that's a significantly more expensive replacement cost.
On top of more expensive parts, there also aren't as many repair shops with technicians trained to fix electric vehicles versus traditional vehicles. That means those qualified facilities may charge more for repairs because of the specialized training required.”

But wait! There’s more!

I serve on my township’s Board of Advisors, with responsibility for maintaining a top-notch fire department. We keep a lot of different supplies and chemicals on hand that they may need to address in various residential and commercial situations. I asked our fire chief recently how they would handle an EV fire. His answer, because of the unique danger a battery fire poses, since there’s not enough water to extinguish it, and the lack of any recommended protocol from the US Fire Administration or any other resource, is to “try to isolate it and let it burn out.”
 

glhs837

Power with Control

More Hidden Risks of EVs


By Pete Colan


An EV will likely not exceed five digits on the odometer because the cost to replace the battery in the typical 10-year span of a battery life will exceed the vehicle’s resale value, therefore making it economically impractical.

Other authors have all cited valid facts about the impracticality of charging these things on long trips, the stress they will add to a fragile electric grid, the lack of enthusiasm in this country for adding additional reliable energy power plants, etc. None of this has made me want to rush right out and buy an EV, but just for the sake of developing a more complete picture, let’s peel another layer off the onion.

It should come as no surprise that insurance costs are also higher, not only because of their higher sticker price but because of the cost of specialty parts (including batteries), the lack of a specially-trained workforce to fix them, and the possibility that even a younger vehicle may be totaled if there was a damaged battery simply because of the cost of the battery.

Progressive Insurance sums it up nicely:




But wait! There’s more!

I serve on my township’s Board of Advisors, with responsibility for maintaining a top-notch fire department. We keep a lot of different supplies and chemicals on hand that they may need to address in various residential and commercial situations. I asked our fire chief recently how they would handle an EV fire. His answer, because of the unique danger a battery fire poses, since there’s not enough water to extinguish it, and the lack of any recommended protocol from the US Fire Administration or any other resource, is to “try to isolate it and let it burn out.”

Where are they getting "typical 10 year lifespan"?

But wait, there's more. Seems a bit of a cop out to just say the USFA hasn't issued guidance so we'll just sit it out. There are techniques and tools for this purpose, blankets, submergence basins, and I just found this thing. Since its a township, could be a small place where there are no EVS to speak of so the Chief doesnt really care.

https://www.garrisonflood.com/ev-fire-fighting-water-submersion-pool
 

DaSDGuy

Well-Known Member
Where are they getting "typical 10 year lifespan"?

But wait, there's more. Seems a bit of a cop out to just say the USFA hasn't issued guidance so we'll just sit it out. There are techniques and tools for this purpose, blankets, submergence basins, and I just found this thing. Since its a township, could be a small place where there are no EVS to speak of so the Chief doesnt really care.

https://www.garrisonflood.com/ev-fire-fighting-water-submersion-pool
So we not only have to pay for a complete charging infrastructure, we also need to provide a submersion pool for every fire station in the country. Not to mention a tow truck to drag that flaming EV over to that pool and those specialty blankets. What do the fire fighters remove from their trucks to make room for those?
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member

More Hidden Risks of EVs


By Pete Colan


An EV will likely not exceed five digits on the odometer because the cost to replace the battery in the typical 10-year span of a battery life will exceed the vehicle’s resale value, therefore making it economically impractical.

Other authors have all cited valid facts about the impracticality of charging these things on long trips, the stress they will add to a fragile electric grid, the lack of enthusiasm in this country for adding additional reliable energy power plants, etc. None of this has made me want to rush right out and buy an EV, but just for the sake of developing a more complete picture, let’s peel another layer off the onion.

It should come as no surprise that insurance costs are also higher, not only because of their higher sticker price but because of the cost of specialty parts (including batteries), the lack of a specially-trained workforce to fix them, and the possibility that even a younger vehicle may be totaled if there was a damaged battery simply because of the cost of the battery.

Progressive Insurance sums it up nicely:




But wait! There’s more!

I serve on my township’s Board of Advisors, with responsibility for maintaining a top-notch fire department. We keep a lot of different supplies and chemicals on hand that they may need to address in various residential and commercial situations. I asked our fire chief recently how they would handle an EV fire. His answer, because of the unique danger a battery fire poses, since there’s not enough water to extinguish it, and the lack of any recommended protocol from the US Fire Administration or any other resource, is to “try to isolate it and let it burn out.”
With me the charging on a long trip and the resale value will kill it, however I don't believe this point "An EV will likely not exceed five digits on the odometer"
 

glhs837

Power with Control
So we not only have to pay for a complete charging infrastructure, we also need to provide a submersion pool for every fire station in the country. Not to mention a tow truck to drag that flaming EV over to that pool and those specialty blankets. What do the fire fighters remove from their trucks to make room for those?
Same way we introduced every piece of new technology over the last hundred years. A little piece at a time. And I agree taxpayers shouldn't be paying for charging infrastructure. Let the market drive that s***. Up until recently Tesla paid for the supercharging Network all by themselves. That old Uncle Joe wanted to go throwing money around and hell they'd be idiots to leave it on the table.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

Hertz CEO Out As Firm Seeks Traction After Big EV Bet Goes Bust




CEO Stephen Scherr's barely two-year ride with Hertz came to a screeching halt on Friday. In his wake, he leaves a company still working to recover from a big bet on electric vehicles gone bad. It will do so under new CEO Gil West, whose previous posts include executive roles at Delta Air Lines and the Cruise unit of General Motors.

Scherr, who came on board in February 2022 after 30 years at Goldman Sachs, ushered the company through its emergence from bankruptcy. Hertz's EV push began in the previous year, with a splashy move to order 100,000 Tesla Model 3 vehicles. After taking the reins of the Estero, Florida-headquartered company, Scherr doubled down on the green vision, committing to purchased another 65,000 EVs from Polestar, a Swedish company.

In December 2023, Hertz emphatically demonstrated that its massive EV push just wasn't working out, throwing 20,000 EVs into the used-car market to start a systematic liquidation planned to extend through 2024. "The company expects to reinvest a portion of the proceeds from the sale of EVs into the purchase of internal combustion engine vehicles to meet customer demand," Hertz said at the time, adding, "The company expects this action to better balance supply against expected demand of EVs."

The resale of fleet cars is a key driver of rental car companies' profitability. On that front, Tesla threw a wrench in Hertz's financials by aggressively slashing prices across its product line, crushing the resale values of not only Teslas, but the entire EV market. Top-selling EV's saw their secondary-market prices plunge by almost a third in 2023.

Poor resale value isn't the only EV liability biting Hertz -- the company also pointed to the high cost of collision repairs. “For context, collision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Scherr noted in an October third-quarter conference call.







 

Kyle

Beloved Misanthrope
PREMO Member
And no doubt he walked away with millions in bonus money and stock options for running the ship up on the rocks.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Poor resale value isn't the only EV liability biting Hertz -- the company also pointed to the high cost of collision repairs. “For context, collision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Scherr noted in an October third-quarter conference call.

And this might be the thing that convinces me not to make the switch because as I approach retirement, I am highly likely to do all my driving in a warmer climate and almost all on short. local trips, with a much emptier house and garage - ideally suited for an EV.

But one of the great things about maintaining an ICE vehicle that is paid for is - repairs are minimal and cheap.
 

glhs837

Power with Control

Poor resale value isn't the only EV liability biting Hertz -- the company also pointed to the high cost of collision repairs. “For context, collision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Scherr noted in an October third-quarter conference call.​




So, two points on this. EVS are not the bad guys here, corporate idiocy is.

1. One reason they bought so many was to immediately turn them over to Uber and other rideshare drivers. These folks treated them like rentals, which led to higher repair costs. Had they bought fewer and only used them for paying customers, that number would not have been so high, as damage would have come from renters insurance.

2. Hertz did a horrendous job of introducing these. They didnt add charging at the locations, they didn't train staff, they didn't ensure customers were ready and willing to rent EVs. The net is rife with stories about how badly folks got treated by Hertz with EV rentals. My experience was good, and so were others, but they quite often forced people who hadn't asked for one into one, or forced them into ones they didnt want like Volvos.


If you wont commit to a logistics backside and what we call full lifecycle logistics, your rollout is doomed to fail.
 

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
So, two points on this. EVS are not the bad guys here, corporate idiocy is.

1. One reason they bought so many was to immediately turn them over to Uber and other rideshare drivers. These folks treated them like rentals, which led to higher repair costs. Had they bought fewer and only used them for paying customers, that number would not have been so high, as damage would have come from renters insurance.

2. Hertz did a horrendous job of introducing these. They didnt add charging at the locations, they didn't train staff, they didn't ensure customers were ready and willing to rent EVs. The net is rife with stories about how badly folks got treated by Hertz with EV rentals. My experience was good, and so were others, but they quite often forced people who hadn't asked for one into one, or forced them into ones they didnt want like Volvos.


If you wont commit to a logistics backside and what we call full lifecycle logistics, your rollout is doomed to fail.
You are delusional!
 
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