glhs837
Power with Control
Well, your factual rebuttal has me on the ropes, can't argue with your command of no facts whatsoever.... Good day, Sir.
Electric Car News
- Thread starter Kyle
- Start date
Kinnakeet
Well-Known Member
Its my opinion sorry ,dont need facts for that do I, they are a waste of money to me and the materials mined for them destroy the earth and when the batteries need replaced what do they do with them bury them in the ground?From what I have read the batteries cost almost as much as the car,Fossil fuel fired generators still make the electric so being green and saving the planet just went out the window,How long does it take to charge one? when your on a road trip can you find charging stations as much as you can fuel stations,how long do the batteries last,can you buy parts at NAPA for them and why are they catching on fire? Just saying no hard feelings.
glhs837
Power with Control
Take a breath. And of course your opinion doesn't need facts to be your opinion. But opinions backed by facts get more credit than those backed by memes and outrage.
1. You of course decide what is and isn't a waste of you money.
2. Drilling for oil and such and the materials needed for engines and transmissions also damage the earth.
3. We are now reaching the point where there are enough batteries for recycling to be economically feasible. And we are recycling them. Too valuable to bury. Looks to be about a 90% reuse.
4. The battery cost stories are generally all from older very low volume vehicles so that price data is a bit skewed. Of course, modenr batteries should last 300-500k, so most people will never face that problem.
5. Fossil fuel power plants operate far more efficiently than ICE vehicle engines. A natural gas power plant is about %42 efficient, while the average road car ranges between 20%-35%. So while you are still burning, its less than if you used that fuel for powering vehicles directly. And the real answer for that point is to make a whole lot of nuke plants and good renewables paired with storage.
6. How long it takes to charge is a variable. At home, 6-8 hours if you were low. And for the 85% of owners who charge at home, that's fine. Few people travel more than 30-40 miles a day so it takes far less time to top off. On road trips, a level three charger like a Tesla Supercharger, of which they just announced there are 40,000 of in the world, with installs increasing more rapidly all the time, you can get the charge you need in the amount of time it takes for a snack and bathroom break.
7. Can you find charging stations, well, that depends on what you buy. With Tesla, its easy. Just enter your destination and the car simply plots your route and shows you where and for how long you need to charge. And the health of each individual charger and how busy it it is monitored in real time and used to plot your route. Other makes, not so much since they rely on a patchwork of spotty charging networks. But that should get better for them as time goes on.
8. Batteries, well, Teslas newer packs have a design life of 300-500k. Other makers using pouch cells? No idea, but more makers are adopting hard cylindrical cells which should have good life.
9. Parts? Depends on the part. And as time goes on, aftermarket parts makers will make more parts for them. Like any new thing, taks time to get enough installed base to make manufacture of aftermarket parts feasible.
10. Yep, some catch on fire. Corrected for quantity, far less than ICE vehicles. And when they do, they generally do so in such a way that the occupants have plenty of time to pull over and safely escape. No explosions. Hitting a tree at 100mph will break a pack open, however.
I have links to prove all these points if you are interested.
No need to any normal human being, EV's are a not ready for prime time joke! Plain and simple, as soon as you mentioned oil drilling you confirmed Kinnakeets stance is correct.
glhs837
Power with Control
I didn't say we don't need to drill for oil, just that we have better uses for those petrochemicals than burning them in your car. All material resource gathering causes damage of some kind. Some more, some less. Not sure how that invalidates any of my points.
And I agree that they are not ready to take over 100% of use cases. But as they are, they can fulfill many peoples transportation needs with no compromise.
Bare-ya-cuda
Well-Known Member
Spending 60k on a car to drive 16 miles a day to work and a couple trips to town isn’t worth it for most people. When they come out with a truck that will match the towing capacity/distance that my duramax can then I will pay attention.
glhs837
Power with Control
Depends on use case of course. If you are in the 30k and below market, then of course a 50K EV isnt for you. But once you get in the 40k range, then the total cost of ownership starts to make sense. We still drive about 12-15k a year. We spend about $120 a month on gas. Doesn't take super long to make that difference back if you charge at home and things like oil changes every 7K.
What is your durmaxes range/towing/cost and fuel cost?
The future is stupid.
glhs837
Power with Control
Well, if your an Eastern European who decides you need to own one in a country with no chargers, you are the stupid one, not the car. Ah, seems this is in Ukraine after the Russians took out that part of the grid.
Yep, like California with their brownouts.
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I'm really looking forward to that demand disaster.
glhs837
Power with Control
California voters and politicians making stupid choices doesn't make the cars bad. It's an object lesson and not cutting putting the cart before the horse.
Bare-ya-cuda
Well-Known Member
Diesel cost is up there right now as we all know.
Towing a 9k lb 35 foot travel trailer which is essentially a big brick I have made it from callaway MD as far as just south of Bristol TN before fueling up, still had slightly over 1/4 tank left, but thought best to go ahead and fuel up to carry me on in TN where we were going.
Not towing I average around 22-24 mpg on the highway. Made it from callaway to northern Vermont on 3/4 tank, roughly 600 miles. 36 gallon tank It all depends on traffic, mountains etc. how well I do on mileage. I have data written down just not available right this minute. Truck weighs right at 7k lbs.
I need to tow over distances. EV is a long way off. We really can’t justify 40k for my wife to go back and forth to work and run around town, especially when her vehicle is paid for.
Sneakers
Just sneakin' around....
The mindset of "either/or" just doesn't play here. Agree that EVs are not ready for 'prime time' yet; the infrastructure isn't up to speed, the vehicles are still working out kinks, prices won't come down until they can be sold in quantity.
But at the same time, if an investment in an EV doesn't happen while everyone waits for everyone else to build it up, it will take much longer. Investors won't invest is something that isn't selling.
My approach is to get an EV with the knowledge that it cannot be an end-all solution. It's a stepping stone. I'll use mine as often as I can, but still need the ICE truck for towing and loads (towing the EV, actually...). I'm not sure that in the years of driving I have left, that an EV truck that can tow x-country without issues will be a reality. Maybe. We'll see.
But at the same time, if an investment in an EV doesn't happen while everyone waits for everyone else to build it up, it will take much longer. Investors won't invest is something that isn't selling.
My approach is to get an EV with the knowledge that it cannot be an end-all solution. It's a stepping stone. I'll use mine as often as I can, but still need the ICE truck for towing and loads (towing the EV, actually...). I'm not sure that in the years of driving I have left, that an EV truck that can tow x-country without issues will be a reality. Maybe. We'll see.
You are beating a DEAD HORSE bro!