This_person
Well-Known Member
So, you agree it could be a true story. Very good!! I'm starting to really like you!
and all that
Explain please
- Thread starter theArtistFormerlyKnownAs
- Start date
and all that
theArtistFormerlyKnownAs
Well-Known Member
it isn't. It is true as written. I agree with you there. I am saying that some people's interpretation is off in that they still believe that this involved the whole world and all species as we know them now.
theArtistFormerlyKnownAs
Well-Known Member
So, you agree it could be a true story. Very good!! I'm starting to really like you!
now we're all on the same page
see how easy that was? 
This_person
Well-Known Member
But, it doesn't say that any more than it says only two of every creature.
It's really quite complete, and accurate, as written.
D
dems4me
Guest
Here's a good link if not already posted explaining it. I just looked it up because I was thinking it was pairs of twos and sevens depending on the animals being clean, and unclean, and for food or sacrificing.
How BIG was Noah's Ark?
tommyjones
New Member
but wouldn't god, who supposedly inspired the book to be written, have known the real "truth" and directed the writers to write about it, and not this impression they had of what the entire world was?
I mean, god would have known if other animals were not included in the pairs even if the writers and noah didn't
theArtistFormerlyKnownAs
Well-Known Member
Very interesting read.
Though I didn't finish it, just don't have time to sit and read it through lol.Old Testament did not use parables.
The first 11 chapters of Genesis are vitally important for us to obtain a clear grasp of. These 11 chapters are the ones that have incurred the most criticism from modern scholars, scientists, and skeptics. Let's take a look at some of the following proposed interpretations of Genesis 1-11: as poetry, parables, prophecy, letters, biography, or autobiography/personal testimony.
Are any of these chapters poetry?
To answer this question we need to examine in a little more depth just what is involved in the parallelism of ideas that constitutes Hebrew poetry.
Let us consider Psalm 1:1, which reads as follows:
“Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.”
Here we see triple parallelism in the nouns and verbs used (reading downwards in the following scheme):
walketh counsel ungodly
standeth way sinners
sitteth seat scornful
As well as this overt parallelism, there is also a covert or subtle progression of meaning. In the first column, “walketh” suggests short-term acquaintance, “standeth” implies readiness to discuss, and “sitteth” speaks of long-term involvement. In the second column, 'counsel' betokens general advice, 'way' indicates a chosen course of action, and 'seat' signifies a set condition of mind. In the third column, 'ungodly' describes the negatively wicked, 'sinner' characterizes the positively wicked, and 'scornful' portrays the contemptuously wicked.
Other types of Hebrew poetry include contrastive parallelism, as in Proverbs 27:6, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful,” and completive parallelism, as in Psalm 46:1, 'God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in time of need.' [3].
And so we return to our question. Are any of the first 11 chapters of Genesis poetry?
Answer: No, because these chapters do not contain information or invocation in any of the forms of Hebrew poetry, in either overt or covert form, and because Hebrew scholars of substance are agreed that this is so (see below).
Note: There certainly is repetition in Genesis chapter 1, e.g. “And God said…” occurs 10 times; “and God saw that it was good/very good” seven times; “after his/their kind” 10 times; “And the evening and the morning were the …day” six times. However, these repetitions have none of the poetic forms discussed above; rather they are statements of fact and thus a record of what happened, and possibly for emphasis—to indicate the importance of the words repeated.
Are any of these chapters parables?
No, because when Jesus told a parable He either said it was a parable, or He introduced it with a simile, so making it plain to the hearers that it was a parable, as on the many occasions when He said, “The kingdom of heaven is like…” No such claim is made or style used by the author of Genesis 1-11.
Chapters 12-50 of Genesis were very clearly written as authentic history, as they describe the lives of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his 12 sons who were the ancestral heads of the 12 tribes of Israel. The Jewish people, from earliest biblical times to the present day, have always regarded this portion of Genesis as the true record of their nation's history.
tommyjones
New Member
just because jesus used the convention of stating a story was parable before hand does not mean that it was the same for the tellers of the stories of the old testament.
What I quoted, referred to how the Hebrew language was used, therefore why would the way the language was used change? Everywhere in the Bible Jesus says he is using a parable to explain something. Does the story of Noah's Ark sound like a parable? Is it using an illustration to make a point? I don't think so, it is telling the story of a worldwide flood, it states that the highest mountain under the heavens was covered by at least 20 feet of water. That does not sound like a parable.
Originally Posted by pcjohnnyb
there is NO documentation of a WORLDWIDE (we're going with your story here...entire world remember?) flood in that time period. There is documented story of a flood in that tiny area of the globe, which would thus mean that there could have definitely been a flood...it COULD have even been documented as being "worldwide" because it was the entire area known to those people, and they could have very well said they took two of every animal aboard the boat because they took 2 of every KNOWN animal...the simple fact is that the actual idea of this single man saving the entire population of the animal kingdom while all the evil men were wiped out...is just that, a story.
Read this...
Could Noah's Ark really hold all the animals that were supposed to be preserved from Flood? - ChristianAnswers.Net
there is NO documentation of a WORLDWIDE (we're going with your story here...entire world remember?) flood in that time period. There is documented story of a flood in that tiny area of the globe, which would thus mean that there could have definitely been a flood...it COULD have even been documented as being "worldwide" because it was the entire area known to those people, and they could have very well said they took two of every animal aboard the boat because they took 2 of every KNOWN animal...the simple fact is that the actual idea of this single man saving the entire population of the animal kingdom while all the evil men were wiped out...is just that, a story.
Read this...
Could Noah's Ark really hold all the animals that were supposed to be preserved from Flood? - ChristianAnswers.Net
tommyjones
New Member
it certainly sounds like a parable to me....
an angry god that kills all the people and animals in the world save the ones that would listen to and fear him.....
again, jesus was not in the old testament, so why would you compare OT works to STORYS about jesus?
This_person
Well-Known Member
And, what would that have gained anyone (God included)?
It's what you NEED to know, not what you WANT to know.
Starman3000m
New Member
A deluge of torrential rains for forty days straight would definitely generate an abundance of water upon the earth.
It's easy to do but I believe you are basing your perspective of "mountains" on what we see today in the form of Himalayas, Alps, Pacific Northwest regions, etc. However, speaking to a friend from Israel, "mountains" in those days consisted of lower heights than the geological formations of mountains that we see today. Again, the water covering the mountains of that period came from the torrential rains that lasted for a full forty days.
Geological formations of deep valleys are caused quite quickly through water erosion. The massive amount of water upon earth would definitely carve up quite a bit of deep valleys, creating pockets of area for water to flow into. The receding waters would reveal land and the earth that had been carved away to deep depths is what contains the oceans we have today.
Additionally, the mountain ranges would continually rise after the Great Flood through subsequent sliding of tectonic plates, earthquakes and formation of mountains from volcanic action.
Again, you are trying to examine this event by an observation of today's geological earth. Even secular scientists agree that today's earth is not the same as from the time it was first formed. Their explanation of deep valleys is that wind and water eroded them over a period of "millions of years" however, when we take into account how fast water can erode and form new land masses in a torrential rain we can comprehend that such phenomenon does not need to take "millions of years" in order to affect the earth's geological structure.
According to the Holy Bible, God created all things of the animal kingdom that are subject to His Divine direction. (Mankind who was given a "free-will to decide whether to obey or disobey God) I believe God would certainly have a way to have His Created animals instinctively move to safety as a matter of preservation of the species.
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tommyjones
New Member
According to the Holy Bible, God created all things of the animal kingdom that are subject to His Divine direction. (Mankind who was given a "free-will to decide whether to obey or disobey God) I believe God would certainly have a way to have His Created animals instinctively move to safety as a matter of preservation of the species.
then why did noah need to build a boat?
and wouldn't the existence of this "safe place" mean that the earth was not covered in water 20 ft deep?
God told Noah to build an Ark, God sent all the animals to Noah. The highest mountains under the heavens were covered at least 20 feet by water.
I have a question for all of you asking the questions.
Why do they find fossils of clams and fish, and other sea life at the top of mountains?
How did the fossils of sea life get to the top of a mountain?
Did the clams crawl? Did the fish jump out of the water and walk up the mountain?
Starman3000m
New Member
Men have drowned in water less than 20 feet. The ark was that "safe place" that the critters were led to and is what saved them from being wiped out in the flood - even if it was only twenty feet of water. By the way, the water covered the earth for a period of 150 days. Even if people could hold their head above water in 20 feet depths there is little chance they would live 150 days without food. Of course they'd have all the water they needed.
tommyjones
New Member
my questions were directly in response to Starman's comments, if that helps you.....
as for fossils, you should really just get a science book, somewhere between third and fifth grade level should explain what you are asking
tommyjones
New Member
that doesn't answer how the animals that nuckle asked about got there.....
for many species, the trip would have been longer than their life span