Explain please

[Gwydion]

PC -

ALl the animals were in test tubes!

duh!

 

[godsbutterfly]

The linkup dems4me provided in post 112 (see below) reads that only about 35,000.00 animals made it onto the ARK and they would have taken up a lot less than 40% of the Ark's space if the proper proportions were applied to the Ark's dimensions. That figure takes into account animals that would have been able to survive the flood. It really is good reading and answers a lot of questions.
How BIG was Noah's Ark?

 

[foodcritic]

ok, now YOU are just trying to pass time because we have already agreed that the story is possibly true, as written. It is the concept that people are trying to force on it, comparing it to modern day standards, that doesn't work for me. By that, I mean the people who actually try to rationalize all of the animals of today being loaded onto the boat, or actually having the entire world as we know it today, flood.

My mind is definitely not closed. I never close my mind to a topic if I can be logically proven incorrect. By asking someone to logically explain the concept we're discussing, being compared to TODAY'S knowledge (not the knowledge of the time) there are actually people who tried to rationalize it, and obviously failed.


lets put it plain and simple in writing.

I agree that the story is believable, as written, when based on the knowledge they had in that time period (thousands of years ago).

I disagree that the story some people are trying to rationalize, of the ACTUAL entire world (earth) flooding and all of the animals being saved by a single man, is true. That story is by all means exaggerated.

Is it any more rational to believe that the complexity of life all around came about from Time, Temperature and water???? I can turn on national geographic channel and visit it in cultures in South America or Africa that are living as if they existed 5000 years ago. Really the ancient egyptions had more developments than some tribes in South America in 2008. Why has the evoulutionary process overlooked these people it terms of development?

 

[tommyjones]

Is it any more rational to believe that the complexity of life all around came about from Time, Temperature and water???? I can turn on national geographic channel and visit it in cultures in South America or Africa that are living as if they existed 5000 years ago. Really the ancient egyptions had more developments than some tribes in South America in 2008. Why has the evoulutionary process overlooked these people it terms of development?

evolution and social development are totally different things.....

 

[foodcritic]

i disagree

evolution and social development are totally different things.....

we can differ on opinion. To me they are completely tied together. I think it's a reasobable statement to suggest that the more highly evolved something is the more socially developed it is.. seems logical to me.

 

[Starman3000m]

and? there arent revisions to the Bible?

Around the world there is a distinct layer known as the K-T boundary. This layer is rich in iridium, an element that is rare on earth, but common in meteorites. The layer consistently dates to about 65 million years old. It is obvious what happened. A large meteor hit the earth 65 million years ago (See Impact Event and Mass extinctions). Now every modern mammal fossil is above this boundary--every single one. Every lion, monkey, bear, dolphin, elephant and whale fossil are above this boundary--every single one. On the other hand, every dinosaur fossil is below this boundary--every single one. There are thousands of modern mammal fossils. They are all above the K-T boundary. There are untold thousands of dinosaur fossils. They are all below the boundary.
A flood cannot possibly explain this

:shrug:

Hmmm... I see. This giant meteorite smashed into the earth and covered the atmosphere with a cloud so great that it snuffed out the dinosaurs only but not the other animals and humans who were able to have found a way to survive the period of no sunlight and colder weather due to blockage of sun rays on the earth. OK

 

[itsbob]

Maybe it's not as clear cut as that. Maybe God left part of the world alone, and that's where other animals survived - but it was the whole known world to the mankind He created. Maybe there were other Noah's elsewhere, but they don't matter to the overall story, so they were not included (remember, the Bible is all you NEED to know, not all you WANT to know). Maybe when Noah gathered the animals, he only gathered eggs and sperm (thus, their "male"ness and "female"ness), and had a lab to provide the world with the first test tube babies when he was back on dry ground - and that's why it was seven pairs of some, and two pairs of others.

Saying it's impossible for someone to do is very close minded. I know it was considered impossible to have man land on the moon, and to have one guy shoot the president, and to make computers so small, and to etc., etc.

SO the Mid East flooded.. to the top of the mountains.. but the rest of the world was left alone??

Part of the world at an altitude of 10,000 feet was flooded, but New Orleans at -25 ASL was spared??

Where did God build THAT dam??

Yeah, and I've heard the NEED to know not the WANT to know a few THOUSAND times when you ask questions about faith that there aren't answers for.


Fundamentalist Church of the Latter Day Saints.... The Davidians.. the purple pajama party.. Jim Jones, Guyana.. This is what happens when you accept faith without question.

Of course instead of questioning it, giving my opinion, I could do what eveyrone else does. Recognize it for what it is, and take advantage of the masses, and live in a mansion on the Riviera..

 

[itsbob]

Hmmm... I see. This giant meteorite smashed into the earth and covered the atmosphere with a cloud so great that it snuffed out the dinosaurs only but not the other animals and humans who were able to have found a way to survive the period of no sunlight and colder weather due to blockage of sun rays on the earth. OK

Meteorites exist, we know this to be true.


Did men ever live to the age of 600?? Prove it.

 

[tirdun]

Of course they'd have all the water they needed.

In the same way that people living on the ocean coast have all the water they need, and not a drop of it worth anything to them. Dropping millions of gallons of fresh water onto the ground and into salt water would create a quagmire of salty, muddy water that would have obliterated every sea creature on earth within days. Plankton would have been killed by the lack of light, fish by the lack of fresh water, everything else by the lack of food.

Noah + crew + million animals would have had to either take water with them (millions of gallons) or purify water as they went.

Even more interesting, falling water creates energy, specifically heat. In a normal rainstorm it dissipates into the atmosphere with no real measurable difference. In a global 40 day rainstorm the energy produced by billions of gallons of falling water would have cooked everything.

Finally, saying a flat pre-flood Earth is somehow supported by Science's understanding of geology is simply untrue.

 

[hvp05]

I'm merely suggesting that there is more than one way to look at things - without needing to change what's written - and see the possibilities.

And I think rational non-theists can accept that; more opposition to your idea comes from biblical literalists. And actually, I am surprised that you have not countered TimAllen and Starman, for they are as closed-minded as you purport pcjohnnyb to be.

Secular science is ever coming up with new discoveries whereby scientists and theorists have to make changes and rewrite textbooks.

Yeah, it's so much better to establish a belief before one knows the real answer then stick with it for hundreds or thousands of years, even once you know better. I wish you luck with that.

This giant meteorite smashed into the earth and covered the atmosphere with a cloud so great that it snuffed out the dinosaurs only but not the other animals and humans who were able to have found a way to survive the period of no sunlight and colder weather due to blockage of sun rays on the earth. OK

YOU are the one claiming humans and dinosaurs lived concurrently, not science. Science says humans arrived well after the big impact - partially thanks to the proliferation of mammals in the absence of dinosaurs.

The linkup dems4me provided in post 112

You also should have watched the Discovery Channel special (Noah's Ark: The True Story) about this. You can argue what would fit on the ark until you turn blue in the face, but, as the DC notes, a boat the dimensions listed in the Bible is not even physically possible...

Bigger than many ships, almost as large as the Titanic. If it were even possible to build a boat that large with wood in the time of Noah, it wouldn't have floated for long. The stresses put upon the hull of the boat would cause it to lose its shape and distort. Seams would open up, and it would sink just a few minutes after going into the water.

No doubt, that quote will garner several "But God made it possible..." type responses. I have to wonder why God didn't just lift Noah and his family into the air and let them float above the torrent - would have saved Noah some work and would certainly prove supernatural involvement.

 

[Starman3000m]

And I think rational non-theists can accept that; more opposition to your idea comes from biblical literalists. And actually, I am surprised that you have not countered TimAllen and Starman, for they are as closed-minded as you purport pcjohnnyb to be.

So you are a rational non-theist. OK, that is your right to believe as you wish. If God doesn't exist then you really have nothing to worry about.

As for me, my experience with knowing God's Plan of Salvation through Yeshua HaMashiach (New Testament Jesus) is based on a spiritual awakening that I had in 1976. It saved my marriage whereby my wife, Diana, and I became born-again believers through faith in Yeshua's Atoning Blood. Prior to that I disregarded Yeshua's Authority as the personal Saviour of mankind which He claimed to be.

I trust the words of Yeshua's teachings who not only spoke of the Great Flood but also predicted how the world would be like during the end-times. I guess you are saying that Yeshua was close-minded as well for teaching about the Flood of Noah's Day?


Regarding Yeshua's analogy of the last days compared to Noah's days:

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:35-39)

 

[BuddyLee]

I expected no more explanation than this.

So why ask the question if you already know the answer?

I believe many stories in the bible serve as a moral compass. This is not to say that they are necessarily true or are meant to be interpreted as much.

 

[hvp05]

OK, that is your right to believe as you wish.

Thanks.

... based on a spiritual awakening that I had in 1976.

Happy for ya.

I trust the words of Yeshua's teachings who not only spoke of the Great Flood but also predicted how the world would be like during the end-times.

And again, every other major religion has speculated on the same thing. It seems to be universally understood that people are easily bent towards greed, anger, distrust, selfishness, etc. And it doesn't take much to know a society can not survive long once those characteristics take hold. Many civilizations have fallen in the past few thousand years, and each experienced their own "end times" as known within their frame of reference. Of course, that's not the topic...

I guess you are saying that Yeshua was close-minded as well for teaching about the Flood of Noah's Day?

Am I? I don't see anything in there that would necessarily conflict with an open interpretation (like This_Person's).

 

[djenkins13]

First of all, the ark was, as many have said, huge. Big enough to house more than twice the number of known animals we have in the world today. (BTW - that number is nowhere near a million. It is more along the lines of 30,000) Remember, many animals have adapted due to their climates. So most likely there weren't EVERY type dog we know of today. They have adapted since that time. I read where the dachshund has shrunk 4-6 inches in the last 300 years alone, adapting to its needs. There are butterflies, the EXACT same species, that look nothing alike because they have adapted to the areas where they live. And as for food, most likely God caused a deep sleep to come upon them so that the problems you have brought up didn't occur, like a lion eating a goat. It isn't known. Also, the Bible says that God brought the animals to Noah, so He decided what animals were there. And finally, the ark, to my knowledge, has never been recovered. It is most likely under 100 feet of snow and ice on Mt Ararat.

 

[TimAllen]

I never said that :shrug:



wow, you just lost any little respect I still had for you...

I can't believe you are honestly trying to say that the earth has been around ONLY as long as man has....and for only 6k years at that

Genesis says that God created the Heavens and the Earth, That would indicate to me that it was not here since He created it. Coorect?

 

[This_person]

SO the Mid East flooded.. to the top of the mountains.. but the rest of the world was left alone??

Part of the world at an altitude of 10,000 feet was flooded, but New Orleans at -25 ASL was spared??

Was it 10,000 feet thousands of years ago?Is there reason to think the land that New Orleans is on was spared?

Yeah, and I've heard the NEED to know not the WANT to know a few THOUSAND times when you ask questions about faith that there aren't answers for.

Fundamentalist Church of the Latter Day Saints.... The Davidians.. the purple pajama party.. Jim Jones, Guyana.. This is what happens when you accept faith without question.

Who's asking you to accept without question? That would be dumb. But, try to understand that the answers could be out there. Pretend it's a scientist coming up with the possibilities without proof, and sound fantastical, and see if that helps.

Of course instead of questioning it, giving my opinion, I could do what eveyrone else does. Recognize it for what it is, and take advantage of the masses, and live in a mansion on the Riviera..

"Everyone" does that? Really? It sounds like a lot of people don't do that. Trillions of people over thousands of years make your statement there a little fantastical all on its own.

 

[tommyjones]

we can differ on opinion. To me they are completely tied together. I think it's a reasobable statement to suggest that the more highly evolved something is the more socially developed it is.. seems logical to me.

sounds pretty ignorant to me.

if that were the case, that people who are more socially developed are more highly evolved, it would mean that europeans are more highly eveloved than say our african "brothers and sisters".
i think thats just ignorant.

 

[hvp05]

First of all, the ark was, as many have said, huge. Big enough to house more than twice the number of known animals we have in the world today.

Well, there's a new one - to me, anyhow.

And as for food, most likely God caused a deep sleep to come upon them so that the problems you have brought up didn't occur, like a lion eating a goat.

Uh, any sort of animal would still need to receive nourishment, even if they were put into a deep sleep (coma). They would not need to eat, but they would need their nutrients and calories and so forth. Perhaps Noah gave all the animals little IV hookups while they were knocked out to make that happen. That's as good of an answer as anything.

 

[tirdun]

First of all, the ark was, as many have said, huge.

True, in fact it would have been larger than any wooden boat ever built, and about as seaworthy as a bus.

Big enough to house more than twice the number of known animals we have in the world today.

While you may reduce "kind" down to something above species, there doesn't seem to be any reason for literalists to do this except to make everything fit. It mentions "animal and its mate" which implies mating pairs of adult animals, which means that the modern definition of species is required AND every extinct species ever. Your number goes from 30K to something over 300 million, with a multiplying space requirement for water, food, exercise, housing and waste. Invoking a miracle to make the animals docile, comatose and nourished is just one step away from a miracle having the whole Ark suspended in time and space safely above the maelstrom.

But let's be honest. People who have accepted a Young Earth (<10K years) and Noah as an absolute reality are not going to be swayed by discussions on this or any other board. No amount of scientific study, research or discovery is going to impact their conclusion. The world is as they believe it is and science is misinterpreting, falsifying or ignoring the real evidence of an incredibly young universe and a global flood of billions of gallons of water destroying untold millions of animals.

 

[Solja_Boy]

Noah had a fleet of 100 aircraft carriers to transport the animals. The ARK was the name of the boat that Noah captained.