Fools

[Geek]

i just have 1 question for all you ppl that insist on fixing your pets...
do you think you would have the pet "you own now" if their parents were fixed?

Yes. Because no matter how many people get their pets fixed, there are those that don't, won't, or can't. We have too many by the milllions. We have breeders making their living off of making more animals. We will never run out.

 

[HunterJJD]

The only way animal over population will ever end is if we get off our high horse and see out pets as what they truly are, DINNER. People are starving and we are throwing away good healthy meat everyday. The amount of animals being rendered into other products when that meat could be cooked and fed to millions

 

[Magnum]

The only way animal over population will ever end is if we get off our high horse and see out pets as what they truly are, DINNER. People are starving and we are throwing away good healthy meat everyday. The amount of animals being rendered into other products when that meat could be cooked and fed to millions

If it tastes good then eat it :shrug:

 

[Sharon]

YouTube - Chinese Food / Cat's In The Kettle

 

[vraiblonde]

Your next argument will be, of course "All kittens get adopted". And to this I will say, they most certainly don't.

Of course they don't. But what is the solution? Spay/neuter ALL pets? Then where will other animals come from? Should we make people put in an order for a pet, then allow cats and dogs to breed only on demand?

I agree that it's sad that so many unwanted animals are out there. But you cannot control that unless you get all Nazi about it. Propose a reasonable solution - "reasonable" being the operative word. If you could eliminate all the irresponsible people in the world, damn, wouldn't that be a trick?

 

[Geek]

The only way animal over population will ever end is if we get off our high horse and see out pets as what they truly are, DINNER. People are starving and we are throwing away good healthy meat everyday. The amount of animals being rendered into other products when that meat could be cooked and fed to millions

You are actually right. It sounds disgusting, but if the animals are dying anyway, It would be the best way to let their deaths be worth something.

 

[cattitude]

Moved from the Kitten thread

Geek, I sometimes think you (as well as others) hurt the cause. I try to stay positive and not continually berate people regarding rescue, etc. It's hard to know everyone's story. Robin, for example...she's trying to do right by these cats. I don't know her financial situation but I do know what it costs to vet strays and perhaps she's not equipped to deal with that. I mean she has taken them in and tried to do what's right.

Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, I try to stay realistic. I've been thinking a lot about this since last night because I don't feel I really put my thoughts out there as I intended. I'm an animal lover, I try to help animals in any way I can. I think the cause of animal rescue has grown tremendously and made great positive strides but I also think many rescuers are very offputting and condescending. Rather than gaining support, they push people away.

I frequent Petco in Prince Frederick. Most Saturdays, Petco is full of various rescue groups. Loving animals like I do, I usually stop to look and pet the babies and TRY to chat with the various volunteers. I'd say that the majority of the people I try to engage in conversation are aloof and judgmental, almost to the point of being rude.

I stopped yesterday to pet a few kittens. The women holding them barely spoke. I like to talk about the babies I've rescued, that it's hard for me to take any now because of my work schedule, etc. but it's a great thing they're doing They just looked at me...almost as if I was wasting their time. It's not limited to this group, as I've had the same experiences at other rescue events.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've seen the rescue side first hand. I understand how frustrating it is to see so many animals needing homes and how people can be so thoughtless when it comes to animals. I know there are too many animals, I know people need to spay and neuter their pets, I know about cruelty and on and on..... BUT..attacking people, making nasty comments and practically calling people stupid...people you don't even know..does far more harm for the animals. Rescuers need to educate, understand peoples' situations and work with people rather than drive them away.

 

[Geek]

Of course they don't. But what is the solution? Spay/neuter ALL pets? Then where will other animals come from? Should we make people put in an order for a pet, then allow cats and dogs to breed only on demand?

I agree that it's sad that so many unwanted animals are out there. But you cannot control that unless you get all Nazi about it. Propose a reasonable solution - "reasonable" being the operative word. If you could eliminate all the irresponsible people in the world, damn, wouldn't that be a trick?

Absolutely. I think the reasonable thing is fixing the loved animals, the ones that have vet care and a human to love them. There will always be the people that "want just one litter for the kids to see" or the "I would never cut off my dog's manhood" types. I would like the people that can read to look at the facts and see that we don't need "one more litter" of anything right now.

 

[Larry Gude]

*lol*...

OK damn it. I am all confused. Am I suppose to get Timmy's nuts put back on or what?

... :

 

[Magnum]

I'm starting to think there are too many kids. How about we start fixing them as soon as they are born. One less on welfare, one less eating up my tax money

 

[cattitude]

I'm starting to think there are too many kids. How about we start fixing them as soon as they are born. One less on welfare, one less eating up my tax money

You should start a thread outside of the animal forum.

 

[Magnum]

You should start a thread outside of the animal forum.

I was stating the fact to be used as a metaphor

 

[vraiblonde]

Rescuers need to educate, understand peoples' situations and work with people rather than drive them away.

Great post, Catt!

 

[Geek]

Geek, I sometimes think you (as well as others) hurt the cause. I try to stay positive and not continually berate people regarding rescue, etc. It's hard to know everyone's story. Robin, for example...she's trying to do right by these cats. I don't know her financial situation but I do know what it costs to vet strays and perhaps she's not equipped to deal with that. I mean she has taken them in and tried to do what's right.

Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, I try to stay realistic. I've been thinking a lot about this since last night because I don't feel I really put my thoughts out there as I intended. I'm an animal lover, I try to help animals in any way I can. I think the cause of animal rescue has grown tremendously and made great positive strides but I also think many rescuers are very offputting and condescending. Rather than gaining support, they push people away.

I frequent Petco in Prince Frederick. Most Saturdays, Petco is full of various rescue groups. Loving animals like I do, I usually stop to look and pet the babies and TRY to chat with the various volunteers. I'd say that the majority of the people I try to engage in conversation are aloof and judgmental, almost to the point of being rude.

I stopped yesterday to pet a few kittens. The women holding them barely spoke. I like to talk about the babies I've rescued, that it's hard for me to take any now because of my work schedule, etc. but it's a great thing they're doing They just looked at me...almost as if I was wasting their time. It's not limited to this group, as I've had the same experiences at other rescue events.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've seen the rescue side first hand. I understand how frustrating it is to see so many animals needing homes and how people can be so thoughtless when it comes to animals. I know there are too many animals, I know people need to spay and neuter their pets, I know about cruelty and on and on..... BUT..attacking people, making nasty comments and practically calling people stupid...people you don't even know..does far more harm for the animals. Rescuers need to educate, understand peoples' situations and work with people rather than drive them away.

I read that in the other thread. (And I have met the non talker before , BTW after talking to her I just think she is shy in that situation.)

I guess it is hard to convey the feeling behind words. The cats and dogs that I see that I know won't be saved. The cute litters that in a few months won't be so cute, so they get dropped off. Disposable, allergic, they bit my kid, moving to a new place, having a baby. The excuses are long and some are convincing. The ten year old or 12 year old dog in Tri county that did nothing but love someone getting dropped off. It's too sad. I should really just take my animals and walk away.

 

[vraiblonde]

Absolutely. I think the reasonable thing is fixing the loved animals, the ones that have vet care and a human to love them. There will always be the people that "want just one litter for the kids to see" or the "I would never cut off my dog's manhood" types. I would like the people that can read to look at the facts and see that we don't need "one more litter" of anything right now.

Read Catt's post. Calling people names and acting like a bia about it isn't the way to get them to listen to you.

Also, mistakes happen. Magnum has a point with his humans analogy - it's really the same thing. Nobody sets out to have an unwanted litter of puppies, kittens or children. Ideally everything would be all planned out and people would be responsible, but that's not the way it works.

So the only real question should be "Now what?" Because you're never going to rid the world of the unwanted and abandoned.

 

[Larry Gude]

See...

Yes. Because no matter how many people get their pets fixed, there are those that don't, won't, or can't. We have too many by the milllions. We have breeders making their living off of making more animals. We will never run out.

...that's the point right there. There aren't a few too many pets, their are MILLIONS of them. Vrai doesn't see this because she figures most everyone else loves their pet like she does. If more people were like her, we wouldn't have the pet problem. The thing is, far too many people who have no business having pets, have them. They don't care for them, they don't even really love them all that much and they don't see to their problems and care.

All of Vrail's (Claudia's) litters, she has SEEN TO IT that they went to good homes. She didn't neglect them, she didn't throw them out of the car into a field, she didn't abuse them and she just can't fathom how any one could, so, it's not real to her.

And the hot dog analogy doesn't work because Vrail isn't responsible for the other 398 hot dogs in the case; she does NOT contribute to the problem of unloved and uncared for pets. She doesn't go out and get 100's of pets just to get one or two she cares for. Far from it.

Sadly, there is no other practical solution but to destroy the animals by the millions and hope for the Vrail's and Catt's and everyone else who is a good pet owner to take the ones they can. People working to get folks to care more and be more responsible are doing a great service, but, given that we just can't impose or force people to be responsible, that's the best you can do; try.

 

[cattitude]

I guess it is hard to convey the feeling behind words. The cats and dogs that I see that I know won't be saved. The cute litters that in a few months won't be so cute, so they get dropped off. Disposable, allergic, they bit my kid, moving to a new place, having a baby. The excuses are long and some are convincing. The ten year old or 12 year old dog in Tri county that did nothing but love someone getting dropped off. It's too sad. I should really just take my animals and walk away.

Believe me, I understand all too well. It is very easy to lose sight of reality. I want people to feel the way I do but that's not possible. It's a balancing act..you cannot allow yourself to become callous and cynical. You have to keep plodding ahead, even if you are only able to save one. When I see Timmy, Trixie, Buddy and KiKi (as well as my Chloe and Rascal), which are my most recent rescue babies, I know my efforts are worthwhile.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

When I see Timmy, Trixie, Buddy and KiKi (as well as my Chloe and Rascal), which are my most recent rescue babies, I know my efforts are worthwhile.

Timon is a rescue and now I torture him with silly outfits.

 

[Larry Gude]

Because...

I'm starting to think there are too many kids. How about we start fixing them as soon as they are born. One less on welfare, one less eating up my tax money

...we're talking about animals, not people. Hitler was not the first, or, obviously, last person to see the world through an engineered, dictated and controlled viewpoint.

Humans, kids, have the potential to grow up from bad beginnings and to become, good, responsible, productive members of society. Obviously, the converse is also possible and all to often rather likely, but still, we have free will and opposable thumbs.

Animals, be it biblical teachings or moral societal values, clearly animals can not make decisions, so, it's entirely appropriate that we at least try to do it for them. We don't hunt enough anymore. We can't just let deer run wild. It is appropriate to have organized hunts and to explore ways to keep them under control.

So, not that we should hunt cats, but, it's up to us to apply some controls.

 

[vraiblonde]

So, not that we should hunt cats, but, it's up to us to apply some controls.

If one of the girls got knocked up, I'd try to give them away. The leftovers, I would have euthanized.




Okay, who am I trying to kid? I'd just keep them.

But that's what these classifieds people and Robin are doing - trying to get rid of their kittens to good homes. The alternative is to have them put down, but you should at least try and farm them out first. However, when they do this, some animal nuttie comes along to pick at them and make them feel guilty for doing the right thing. Which makes no sense. You'd think they would be applauded for trying to find homes for the kittens.