forced acceptance of homosexuality.

[bcp]

...the doctors have been required to have gay sex? I thought they were being told that if they want to be in business, it has to be open to the public as a whole.

so they have no control over their client list?
when is it too much government interference reached in your eyes?

 

[drmatsci]

I disagree that gay-ness is a choice. I am pretty sure scientists have found the brain in certain areas to be different. But I had a friend growing up - she dated guys and knew something was missing but not what (no, we never dated) - but later when she went to college she met a girl and fell in love. One point she was very clear on was that she didn't make a choice, it was part of her biology inherant. Are these people simple malfunctions of the brain? That's another argument. But from what I have seen, its not a 'choice'.

 

[This_person]

...the doctors have been required to have gay sex? I thought they were being told that if they want to be in business, it has to be open to the public as a whole.

See, I don't get this.... WHY do they have to open to the public as a whole? WHY can't a private organization decide for itself who to serve, who to employ, who to treat (electively), etc?

Isn't freedom about, well, freedom? Choose to only serve black people? Then, you'll limit your ability to grow as a company! Free market!! Capitalism!! FREEDOM!!!

Roads and sidewalks is a reason to make companies bow to government standards for public institutions?? Come on, Larry, you usually do better than that with your arguments!

I see no reason why a company cannot discriminate in every last part of their business. If they're wrong, they'll fail, or at least be punished with a much smaller, less profitable company.

Government? Different deal all together.

 

[drmatsci]

So when you need an ER, you can't go to the close one, because its Black only, but you have to drive to the white hospital further down the road?

 

[Larry Gude]

If...

so they have no control over their client list?
when is it too much government interference reached in your eyes?

...we accept a right to license business then that means rules and regulations. These doctors asked to be licensed to provide artificial insemination.

As part of the deal, one of the rules is that you can not discriminate based on whatever factors; race, religion, sexual orientation. They did not apply for a license based on the ability to be able to pick and choose who their clients are based on race and/or religion and/or sexual orientation.

This woman is not demanding that a pizza shop sell her car parts. She is not demanding that they marry her. She is not demanding that they like her, send her Christmas cards or be the Godfathers of her child. She is demanding that a sub shop sell subs, that a car parts store sell car parts, that an artificial insemination store sell artificial insemination.

 

[This_person]

So when you need an ER, you can't go to the close one, because its Black only, but you have to drive to the white hospital further down the road?

Note the word "elective" in my post.

In terms of someone who chooses to work in the ER, I feel they are taking on a role they know will likely end up with them serving people they don't want to. And, their service is life or death, not something that can wait. So, in choosing to work in an ER, I believe you've chosen to waive such a right to refuse service. If you work at Auto Zone, or Giant, or for an orthodonist, you should have the exclusive right to pick and choose your customers, your employees - and in the process determine your professional fate.

 

[Larry Gude]

They...

See, I don't get this.... WHY do they have to open to the public as a whole? WHY can't a private organization decide for itself who to serve, who to employ, who to treat (electively), etc?

Isn't freedom about, well, freedom? Choose to only serve black people? Then, you'll limit your ability to grow as a company! Free market!! Capitalism!! FREEDOM!!!

Roads and sidewalks is a reason to make companies bow to government standards for public institutions?? Come on, Larry, you usually do better than that with your arguments!

I see no reason why a company cannot discriminate in every last part of their business. If they're wrong, they'll fail, or at least be punished with a much smaller, less profitable company.

Government? Different deal all together.

...don't have to be open to the public. They can be closed.

If you don't accept that the community has some expectations in return for a person accessing the opportunity to do business there, then, fine. I can't make you see the point. But, I can try. I'll bet if they go in the middle of nowhere Montana, they can set up shop all they like and never have to deal with a lesbian again. However, if they wanna be around a population center, well, they're looking at more gay people running loose including some that may well want to do business with them.

 

[drmatsci]

Wierd, but I fully agree with Larry.

And if the tax code had kept the seperation of church and state, keeping marriage out of taxes, that would have solved another hot issue on 'gay'.

 

[bcp]

So when you need an ER, you can't go to the close one, because its Black only, but you have to drive to the white hospital further down the road?

we are not talking about something that is either a matter of life or death, or denied based on race.
we are talking about a doctor refusing to perform and elective service on someone that may or may not be mentally unstable.

 

[This_person]

...we accept a right to license business then that means rules and regulations. These doctors asked to be licensed to provide artificial insemination.

As part of the deal, one of the rules is that you can not discriminate based on whatever factors; race, religion, sexual orientation. They did not apply for a license based on the ability to be able to pick and choose who their clients are based on race and/or religion and/or sexual orientation.

This woman is not demanding that a pizza shop sell her car parts. She is not demanding that they marry her. She is not demanding that they like her, send her Christmas cards or be the Godfathers of her child. She is demanding that a sub shop sell subs, that a car parts store sell car parts, that an artificial insemination store sell artificial insemination.

And, where is it her right to "demand" such service? If people choose to NOT provide a service, why can't they?

 

[drmatsci]

The problem is, you can't draw that line in the sand like you say.

What you suggest is no different than going back 50 years ago.
Seperate but equal? Or not?

Are you okay with seperate things for black and white folk?

 

[vraiblonde]

Oh stop. Please. This ##### was just looking for trouble. The doctor gave her a referral, but she wasn't interested in that - she wanted to FORCE the first doctor to inseminate her.

The whole thing is bull#### and she wasn't denied medical care in the least. I'm a firm believer that privately owned businesses should be able to refuse service to whoever they want for whatever reason.

 

[bcp]

And, where is it her right to "demand" such service? If people choose to NOT provide a service, why can't they?

the point is that they do provide this service. just not homosexuals.
Im willing to bet that if a male/female couple showed up for the service, and it was found that they lived a lifestyle not conducive to the proper raising of the child, they too would be denied service.

 

[Larry Gude]

So...

And, where is it her right to "demand" such service? If people choose to NOT provide a service, why can't they?

...you're OK with a restaurant refusing you service because you're a male? Or white? Or born wherever it is you were born? Or you have the wrong color hair? Or bad teeth? Or need a shower? Or like the Cowboys?

Still feel the same way if it's the only restaurant in your part of town? Or the only one that serves the food you are in the mood for? Or, you're just freaking hungry and wanna eat?

 

[drmatsci]

Good, Target here no longer allows Blacks or women to shop there.

Walmart doesn't allow men or whites.

everyone is happy now!

 

[Xaquin44]

Oh stop. Please. This ##### was just looking for trouble. The doctor gave her a referral, but she wasn't interested in that - she wanted to FORCE the first doctor to inseminate her.

The whole thing is bull#### and she wasn't denied medical care in the least. I'm a firm believer that privately owned businesses should be able to refuse service to whoever they want for whatever reason.

what if it's the only grocery store in town?


also, why was her sexual orientation even brought up? Does it matter at all regarding the procedure?

 

[bcp]

The problem is, you can't draw that line in the sand like you say.

What you suggest is no different than going back 50 years ago.
Seperate but equal? Or not?

Are you okay with seperate things for black and white folk?

again with the race.
evidently, homosexuality can not stand on its own merits, else, it could be argued without trying to pretend its something that it is not.

 

[LastSon]

we are not talking about something that is either a matter of life or death, or denied based on race.
we are talking about a doctor refusing to perform and elective service on someone that may or may not be mentally unstable.

Please oh please tell me that you are not seriously so closed minded in the year of 2008 that you equate mental illness and homosexuality.

The issue here is that these doctors offices are receiving public money from the government and other government agencies are expected to provide a certain amount of services. The doctors do not get to choose who they provide these services too based on the patients' non-life threatening life-style choices. If a doctor were to refuse this treatment to a person who was obviously on drugs, thats one thing, but this is completely different. They are providing a public service, and therefore must act accordingly.

 

[jrt_ms1995]

See, I don't get this.... WHY do they have to open to the public as a whole? WHY can't a private organization decide for itself who to serve, who to employ, who to treat (electively), etc?

Isn't freedom about, well, freedom? Choose to only serve black people? Then, you'll limit your ability to grow as a company! Free market!! Capitalism!! FREEDOM!!!

Roads and sidewalks is a reason to make companies bow to government standards for public institutions?? Come on, Larry, you usually do better than that with your arguments!

I see no reason why a company cannot discriminate in every last part of their business. If they're wrong, they'll fail, or at least be punished with a much smaller, less profitable company.

Government? Different deal all together.

Right! Anything private, not public, should discriminate as it wishes if it wishes, and suffer the economic consequences (I hope) or reap the rewards (I hope not) of their positions. And the only thing public is government.

 

[huntr1]

Any private business should be allowed to deny service to anyone they want. Period. You don't want to sell to me becuase I am a white male? Fine. I'll take my business to somebody that does.