Fundamentalist Political Movement Today Is Savvy, Well Funded And Influential

[PsyOps]

I was commenting on your own words and what you claim about yourself, i know them.....

funny that when confronted with your own words that belie your anger and hate you refuse to see :thereyagolittlefellaitsOK:

You see, this is why people shouldn't talk about religion and politics.

 

[Midnightrider]

You see, this is why people shouldn't talk about religion and politics.

why, because it exposes the fallices of our arguments?
seems all the better to talk about it then. Since we aren't friends in the first place, it won't destroy anything, and debating such topics should only lead to a greater understanding of our own values, morals, and prejudices.

BTW, prejudices justified by religion are still prejudices. Religion tends to be used to separate people into an us v. them mentality....

 

[PsyOps]

why, because it exposes the fallices of our arguments?
seems all the better to talk about it then. Since we aren't friends in the first place, it won't destroy anything, and debating such topics should only lead to a greater understanding of our own values, morals, and prejudices.

Not fallacies. Is this what this is all about for you? Pointing out the fallacies of things? How about the truths?

BTW, prejudices justified by religion are still prejudices. Religion tends to be used to separate people into an us v. them mentality....

Please don't pretend religious groups are the only groups out there expressing their prejudices. There is plenty to go around equally.

 

[Midnightrider]

Not fallacies. Is this what this is all about for you? Pointing out the fallacies of things? How about the truths?



Please don't pretend religious groups are the only groups out there expressing their prejudices. There is plenty to go around equally.

Well i have a probelm beliving something that includes falsehoods, I can and do belive in lots of spritual things, but i dont bow down to religious dogma.

And i never said that the religious had the corner on racism, its just that many of the religious try to justify their hate as being god given or dictated by their holy book.

 

[PsyOps]

Well i have a probelm beliving something that includes falsehoods, I can and do belive in lots of spritual things, but i dont bow down to religious dogma.

I need not say that's your choice. The stance you have on God demands that it is false. So your reply is not surprising.

And i never said that the religious had the corner on racism, its just that many of the religious try to justify their hate as being god given or dictated by their holy book.

When Jesus chastised the religious leaders of his day he used the harshest language to describe them: serpents, brood of vipers, full dead men’s bones and all corruption. This was very harsh language in their day. No doubt he was thought have hated the religious leaders. Fact of the matter is, Jesus right in line with the truth and was not silent about it. He recognized sin regardless of whether they were prostitutes, tax collectors or religious leaders. In fact he held the religious leaders in a higher expectation of upholding God’s law, which explain why he was so harsh on them. But his criticism came not out of hatred, but out of love for 1) God’s truth and desire for to do what is right and 2) His desire for us to repent these evil ways and come back to God.

Now, I’m not sure I specifically understand what kind of hatred you are referring to but, we wouldn’t be doing our duty, as Christians, if we were to just sit back and stay silent when we see wrong. Christians have a view of right and wrong that doesn’t conform to the world’s progressive view of what is right and wrong. Therefore, our criticism, even though appearing to be hatred towards people, is a desire to see and have what is right in the eyes of God.

Admittedly some go overboard and their rhetoric is such that they come across as hateful; and, indeed, some of it may be based in hate. I don’t claim to know their minds. But Jesus was crucified for his adamant stance against the religious leaders and their self-serving ambitions that aimed to put them first and everyone else last; totally contrary to God’s teachings.

Don't think I don't recognize the "worldly" consequences of expecting folks to adhere to God's truth rather than the world's and how this can be misunderstood as hatred.

 

[Midnightrider]

I need not say that's your choice. The stance you have on God demands that it is false. So your reply is not surprising.



When Jesus chastised the religious leaders of his day he used the harshest language to describe them: serpents, brood of vipers, full dead men’s bones and all corruption. This was very harsh language in their day. No doubt he was thought have hated the religious leaders. Fact of the matter is, Jesus right in line with the truth and was not silent about it. He recognized sin regardless of whether they were prostitutes, tax collectors or religious leaders. In fact he held the religious leaders in a higher expectation of upholding God’s law, which explain why he was so harsh on them. But his criticism came not out of hatred, but out of love for 1) God’s truth and desire for to do what is right and 2) His desire for us to repent these evil ways and come back to God.

Now, I’m not sure I specifically understand what kind of hatred you are referring to but, we wouldn’t be doing our duty, as Christians, if we were to just sit back and stay silent when we see wrong. Christians have a view of right and wrong that doesn’t conform to the world’s progressive view of what is right and wrong. Therefore, our criticism, even though appearing to be hatred towards people, is a desire to see and have what is right in the eyes of God.
Admittedly some go overboard and their rhetoric is such that they come across as hateful; and, indeed, some of it may be based in hate. I don’t claim to know their minds. But Jesus was crucified for his adamant stance against the religious leaders and their self-serving ambitions that aimed to put them first and everyone else last; totally contrary to God’s teachings.

Don't think I don't recognize the "worldly" consequences of expecting folks to adhere to God's truth rather than the world's and how this can be misunderstood as hatred.

that all comes across as "blah blah blah, my hate is dictated by the bible, god told me its ok to judge and hate you because you dont belive in the right god, book, whatever"


People wrote the bible, not god, if you are basing your hate or justifying your judgements using the bible, you really need to remember that, just look, most of the books of the bible are named according to the PERSON who wrote them.....

 

[PsyOps]

that all comes across as "blah blah blah, my hate is dictated by the bible, god told me its ok to judge and hate you because you dont belive in the right god, book, whatever"

My God (Yahweh, Jehovah, etc….) tells me there is but one God, Him. Why would there be others if there is just Him? How can there be a belief in “the right God” if there is just Him? And if there is but one God, then there is just one book to explain who He is. You demand choices that don’t exist. You demand to be allowed to set your own set of rules. Not even in a Darwinian/evolution/everything-occurred-at-random world do we have that luxury. In fact, in that belief, even less so. Because of the randomness of things there is no guarantee that we even exist. At least with my God there is that guarantee.

God does not tell us to hate or judge. What he does tell us is to understand right and wrong and correct each other accordingly. Is that your definition of hate? I think this is the difference though… If I tell you looking at porn is evil and corrupts the mind and represents a life destined for eternal damnation I tell you this as someone that cares about your salvation. What you hear is someone that is judging you and condemning you… IOW Hate! I have made a judgment about your behavior but I cannot judge you and condemn you to hell. It’s only my desire to see you saved. This is the antithesis of hate.

People wrote the bible, not god, if you are basing your hate or justifying your judgements using the bible, you really need to remember that, just look, most of the books of the bible are named according to the PERSON who wrote them.....

People wrote the words on a page that we call the Bible. These words were inspired by God. There is absolute no way I can rely on my poor use of words to convince someone like you (an adamant non-believer) what is meant by something being inspired by God. It’s all . I use the Bible as guidance and apply it to my life not yours. I can only rely on my poor use of words to somehow convey this message then allow God to do the rest.

 

[Midnightrider]

My God (Yahweh, Jehovah, etc….) tells me there is but one God, Him. Why would there be others if there is just Him? How can there be a belief in “the right God” if there is just Him? And if there is but one God, then there is just one book to explain who He is. You demand choices that don’t exist. You demand to be allowed to set your own set of rules. Not even in a Darwinian/evolution/everything-occurred-at-random world do we have that luxury. In fact, in that belief, even less so. Because of the randomness of things there is no guarantee that we even exist. At least with my God there is that guarantee.

God does not tell us to hate or judge. What he does tell us is to understand right and wrong and correct each other accordingly. Is that your definition of hate? I think this is the difference though… If I tell you looking at porn is evil and corrupts the mind and represents a life destined for eternal damnation I tell you this as someone that cares about your salvation. What you hear is someone that is judging you and condemning you… IOW Hate! I have made a judgment about your behavior but I cannot judge you and condemn you to hell. It’s only my desire to see you saved. This is the antithesis of hate.



People wrote the words on a page that we call the Bible. These words were inspired by God. There is absolute no way I can rely on my poor use of words to convince someone like you (an adamant non-believer) what is meant by something being inspired by God. It’s all . I use the Bible as guidance and apply it to my life not yours. I can only rely on my poor use of words to somehow convey this message then allow God to do the rest.

Ok, you have said twice now that i am an adamant none believer, thats just not true. I accept that the bible was written by people and therefore isn't infalliable, but the main tenents of christianity i mostly believe.

Its hysterical to me when people make a judgement but say they aren't judging people to hell so it doesn't really count. The bible doesn't say dont judge people to hell, it says dont judge, its not your job.

as for the one god angle, its been explored here many times. Most major religions have one god claiming him to be the only god. Because we can't understand god as humans, it only makes sense that the religions are spreaking of the same god, its just that name and fables attributed to him and the langauge in which it is written is different.
When speaking to a large diverse group, you here enlightened pastors, rabiis, and holymen of all religions aknowledging the name of god in the various other religions showing their understanding of this principle. If their is only one god, then we all have the same one, no matter what is written in the various texts trying to convince you otherwise.

 

[PsyOps]

Ok, you have said twice now that i am an adamant none believer, thats just not true. I accept that the bible was written by people and therefore isn't infalliable, but the main tenents of christianity i mostly believe.

My apologies, I thought you mentioned you were an atheist. On the surface you appear to be an agnostic (not a judgment, just an observation). Although I find it a contradiction to believe the Word of God - written by mere men but inspired by the mind of God – is fallible I will not question your beliefs. I’m interested in hearing about these basic tenets of Christianity.

Its hysterical to me when people make a judgement but say they aren't judging people to hell so it doesn't really count. The bible doesn't say dont judge people to hell, it says dont judge, its not your job.

Can anyone really judge someone else to hell? The answer has to be no. This belongs to God and I've maintained this point from the beginning. When your child does something wrong don't you judge that child in an attempt to correct him/her? As people we make judgments about other people every day: “Man that was some stupid driving” or “Why does that person cuss so much?” or “Eating all that fattening food is going to destroy your health. You should stop.” Why shouldn’t we also, as Christians, make the same kind of judgments about our spiritual living? But the line is crossed where anyone tells another that they are going to hell because of their behavior. No one has that authority nor should they attempt to exercise it. But when Jesus said we should not judge, did that mean we shouldn’t have judges that apply the law and judge us in breaking that law?

as for the one god angle, its been explored here many times. Most major religions have one god claiming him to be the only god. Because we can't understand god as humans, it only makes sense that the religions are spreaking of the same god, its just that name and fables attributed to him and the langauge in which it is written is different.
When speaking to a large diverse group, you here enlightened pastors, rabiis, and holymen of all religions aknowledging the name of god in the various other religions showing their understanding of this principle. If their is only one god, then we all have the same one, no matter what is written in the various texts trying to convince you otherwise.

Although the God of Judaism and Christianity is the same God, Jews reject that Christ has come. The God of Islam is not the same god as their major prophet (or savior) is Muhammad. Muslims have different beliefs in heaven and how to obtain this eternal life. Theirs is not based in Christ. My beliefs demand that this god is a false god. Hinduism and Buddhism don’t recognize a single God. So I’m not sure where you see that God is God is God between religions. This can only come from an agnostic point of view.

 

[Midnightrider]

My apologies, I thought you mentioned you were an atheist. On the surface you appear to be an agnostic (not a judgment, just an observation). Although I find it a contradiction to believe the Word of God - written by mere men but inspired by the mind of God – is fallible I will not question your beliefs. I’m interested in hearing about these basic tenets of Christianity.

you know, good will towards man, love your brother, do onto others etc.
As for you literal reading of the bible, i can't help you there. I believe, like lots of christians that the bible is a collection of stories and fable, some truer than others, but all with "a moral to the story"

Can anyone really judge someone else to hell? The answer has to be no. This belongs to God and I've maintained this point from the beginning. When your child does something wrong don't you judge that child in an attempt to correct him/her? As people we make judgments about other people every day: “Man that was some stupid driving” or “Why does that person cuss so much?” or “Eating all that fattening food is going to destroy your health. You should stop.” Why shouldn’t we also, as Christians, make the same kind of judgments about our spiritual living? But the line is crossed where anyone tells another that they are going to hell because of their behavior. No one has that authority nor should they attempt to exercise it. But when Jesus said we should not judge, did that mean we shouldn’t have judges that apply the law and judge us in breaking that law?

See you can apply logic to the bible and its ok....
Obviously the bible wasn't talking about us not judging people to hell, we couldn't if we wanted to, so why whould it warn us not to? I dont think it does, it warns us not to judge our brothers and sisters. And i don't judge my child, what i do is more like coaching, but if he makes a mistake or a decision that i think is wrong, i dont judge i explain why i think it is wrong, and if the behavior breaks the rules of my house then i punish him. But i dont judge him.

Although the God of Judaism and Christianity is the same God, Jews reject that Christ has come. The God of Islam is not the same god as their major prophet (or savior) is Muhammad. Muslims have different beliefs in heaven and how to obtain this eternal life. Theirs is not based in Christ. My beliefs demand that this god is a false god. Hinduism and Buddhism don’t recognize a single God. So I’m not sure where you see that God is God is God between religions. This can only come from an agnostic point of view.

this is prejudice coming from your religion, and its exactly what i am talking about. Fortunatly not all christains feel the same way.