Larry Gude
Strung Out
...do you suppose an open gay policy will increase, decrease or make no difference in volunteering to serve?
Gays in the military...
- Thread starter Larry Gude
- Start date
pixiegirl
Cleopatra Jones
No difference. Gays will not serve any more than they already do, and heteros will not refuse to serve alongside their homo brethren.
Chasey_Lane
Salt Life
No difference.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Just my opinion, but....
Homosexuals make up about 2-3% of the population, and I'm guessing that they serve at a lower rate than the average population. Therefore, a pretty insignificant amount of people serve (before or after DADT).
Bigots make up, IMHO, more than 2-3% of the population. Therefore, the change in who will serve will be a change in the number of bigots vs the change in the number of homosexuals (if you're not homosexual and you're not a bigot, why would it effect you at all?).
Simple math if my guess is right that bigots make up more than 2-3% says that the number of people serving will drop.
RPMDAD
Well-Known Member
Could be wrong here but i don't think being openly gay means they get to swagger when marching in formation, and a little common sense will tell them not to hold hands or make out with their SO's on a military base in public i think no difference. Gays have been in the military for years and don't hit on their bunkmates.
aps45819
24/7 Single Dad
We're taking about 18 year old males, what does common sense have to do with their behavior?
glhs837
Power with Control
This bothers me, the assumption that becuase a person might not want to share a room with a homosexual they must be a bigot or a homophobe?
Is a woman who doesn't want to bunk with men a heterophobe? No, she isnt. Just a woman who wants the same personal privacy traditionally given.
Again, we come back to the simple fact that forcing folks to billet with those who might view them as sexual partners is not right. And that's the side that always seems to get lost in the mix. So, becuase %70 of the force thinks its ookay, does that mean we trample the %30 who dont? Unless of course folks can "opt out" of "mixed orientation" billeting? If thats the case, fine. But if you allow women to refuse billing with men, and dont allow heteros the same option, you are being unfair.
Why does everyone ignore this part of the issue?
MMDad
Lem Putt
I'd say that the economy has an exponentially greater impact. Same with world events affecting patriotism.
If the Bush tax cuts get extended and the job market improves, make sure you take that into account if recruiting drops.
I remember the Village People, so the stereotype of the Navy and gays was still strong when I joined, but I was able to separate hysteria from fact. I see no reason that most people will not do the same.
Remember, they aren't making the military "gay friendly," they're making it a bit less hostile to them.
MMDad
Lem Putt
Because that factor has been true for as long as we've had a military. It's not like they're suddenly going to have gay orgies in the middle of the barracks.
We know who the gays where on my ship, and this would not have changed anything.
glhs837
Power with Control
I never said they were, nor am I positing surprise buttsecks, just that if a condition is applied, it should be applied equally.
yknotpoms
SOMD POM MOM
It will have effects....many people still have issues with this. less of the population is gay and it may make them feel like they can serve now, because they are less of the population they will not make up for the numbers that may wish not to serve next to them.
When I was military I found women to be more tolerant then the men on gay personnel. I fear openly gay military members may face more physical abuse in the enlisted ranks, but the officers will most likely be more discret and choose more of a shuning approach. Neither are good for the military or the members that need to work as a team.
The rule has been in place for many long years and has worked is it right or wrong, I don't know. Finding out it was right the hard way could be very painful.
When I was military I found women to be more tolerant then the men on gay personnel. I fear openly gay military members may face more physical abuse in the enlisted ranks, but the officers will most likely be more discret and choose more of a shuning approach. Neither are good for the military or the members that need to work as a team.
The rule has been in place for many long years and has worked is it right or wrong, I don't know. Finding out it was right the hard way could be very painful.
Just like any integration, there will be some rough patches. 10 years from now it'll be smooth sailing.
Ultimately this is the right thing to do...I really don't care whether 30% of troops or 100% of troops disagree with it. As far as the concerns about rooming with a homosexual...people will need to get over it...it'll just take some time. My hope is that we are moving towards a society in which sharing a bunk with someone of the opposite sex isn't considered immoral. Imagine...a world where we expect adults to act like adults.
btw, I'm saying all of this as a Marine who served for 4 years...combat arms too!
Ultimately this is the right thing to do...I really don't care whether 30% of troops or 100% of troops disagree with it. As far as the concerns about rooming with a homosexual...people will need to get over it...it'll just take some time. My hope is that we are moving towards a society in which sharing a bunk with someone of the opposite sex isn't considered immoral. Imagine...a world where we expect adults to act like adults.
btw, I'm saying all of this as a Marine who served for 4 years...combat arms too!
glhs837
Power with Control
Thats not the point. Should a woman be forced to bunk with a man? And shower next to him, no curtains? No tangents, please, its two simple questions.
awpitt
Main Streeter
Guys and gals are built differently. That's why they have separate facilities.
glhs837
Power with Control
So, if I just install urinals in all the bathrooms, them women and men can share a two person room? I can, in fact assign any woman into a mans room, and thats okay, even if she says no?
But beds are non-denominational, as are showers, the persons plumbing has no bearing on that. Again, answer the simple question. This always happens folks wiggle and try to slide sideways, but nobody answers the question.
Can a woman be assigned to bunk in the same room as a man? And required to shower next to him?
But beds are non-denominational, as are showers, the persons plumbing has no bearing on that. Again, answer the simple question. This always happens folks wiggle and try to slide sideways, but nobody answers the question.
Can a woman be assigned to bunk in the same room as a man? And required to shower next to him?