God love YOU!

[2ndAmendment]

Your God already knows if I am going to accept the offer or not, right?

He is your God , too, even if you don't accept Him.

He is omniscient and the Bible says He creates those for good and those for bad. If you were created for testing the faithful, sorry about your problem. But ....

Everyone seems to miss that everyone gets a second chance. When Jesus returns, He will rule for 1000 years and satan is bound. After the 1000 years, those that were not believers are resurrected and satan release again. Second time around, choose wisely. There will be those that don't. The great thing for those that are resurrected and are with Christ for the 1000 year reign is they are not subject to the second death. It is in Revelation 20.

People really need to read the Bible. Don't accept what I say or what a priest says or what a minister says or what a radio host says or what some TV program says. Read the Bible and know what the word of God says. Pray for understanding.

 

[Pandora]

Yes, we have the ten commandments along a lot of other ordinances given to the Jews at Mt. Sinai. If we all lived by those few ordinances given, we would not need the many thousands of laws we have on the books of the legal system.

Are you an adult? If your mom told you to do something and you wanted to do something else, would you do what you mom wants or what you want? If you didn't do what your mom wanted, would she be pleased with you? She would still love you, but would she be likely to go out and buy you a new car because you did what you wanted instead of what she instructed?

As a child, did you do things your dad told you not to do? Did he punish you?

God does not bless disobedience. God forgives sin. He does not keep us from suffering the consequences of that sin.

A murdered can repent of his sins. God will forgive the murderer, but the murderer will still have to be subject to the consequences of the actions committed; prison term, death sentence. But the murderer can be forgiven and can enter the kingdom of heaven. Again, attitude of the heart.

We are to have the faith of a child.
It takes humility for an adult to set aside "knowledge" and have faith like a child, but that is the kind of faith we must have. Blind faith? I'd say that it was not until I was "blinded" by faith that my eyes were truly opened. Spiritual things cannot be apprised by eyes that are full of earth.

I was chatting with a forum member last night on the phone and this thread was one of the topics discussed.

I just have to quote this for the simple fact that it is what I said last night on the phone almost word for word.

But I mentioned that each one of us is born with a sinful nature. A good example of this is my 7-year old. Who taught him to lie? He didn’t learn this from his father or me, but he knows that if he tells us what we want to hear that it might keep him from getting his bottom spanked. The thing is, we both are more angered by his unwillingness to admit wrong doing than we are when he says, yep, I was mad and I kicked my brother straight in the nuts just like he said.

Surely, we are not happy he would do something like cram his foot right between his brother’s legs out of anger, sending him to the floor gasping, but we have more respect for him admitting his wrong doing and being truly sorry for allowing it to have escalated to that point. The last thing we want to hear, as parents, is that he did it because he was entitled.

I equate that with the same relationship each one of us have had with God at one point or another. How many times do we do something and make excuses for our behavior instead of taking full responsibility for our actions and being at that place that put us in that position?

When you sit down and really think about a good majority of our trials and tribulations they were mainly self generated in the fact that if you do live your life within the teachings of the Bible, you will avoid yourself a great deal of heartache along the way. And I’m not just talking about the 10-commandments, there is also the fruit of the vine in which Christians should strive to live their lives, but the one thing that bugs me is that people don’t think a Christian has the right to get angry. God got angry, but he didn’t sin in that anger. It is sinning in that anger that I’m sure each and everyone has experienced at one point or another.

I believe that God does know you so well that he already knows what you are going to do before you do it and the choices you will make, but what he doesn’t know is whether or not you are going to accept him, meaning your soul is always up for grabs and the choice is up to you to decide.

 

[Penn]

When you sit down and really think about a good majority of our trials and tribulations they were mainly self generated in the fact that if you do live your life within the teachings of the Bible, you will avoid yourself a great deal of heartache along the way. And I’m not just talking about the 10-commandments, there is also the fruit of the vine in which Christians should strive to live their lives, but the one thing that bugs me is that people don’t think a Christian has the right to get angry. God got angry, but he didn’t sin in that anger. It is sinning in that anger that I’m sure each and everyone has experienced at one point or another.

I believe that God does know you so well that he already knows what you are going to do before you do it and the choices you will make, but what he doesn’t know is whether or not you are going to accept him, meaning your soul is always up for grabs and the choice is up to you to decide.

I have to agree with your statement here, amongst the others you've already made.

It's in one of the Four Gospels, I believe, where Jesus said the very same thing. It's OK to get angry as a Christian, but you should not use that anger in a revengeful manner. If you have cause for getting mad, pizzed, hot-under-the-collar, you are supposed to go to the individual who caused your grievance and reason it out, if I read/interpreted the passage correctly.

But if you use that anger to merely "get back" at someone for spite, that is against His teachings. I think Paul(formerly Saul) wrote much the same thing in one of his letters in the New Testament.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Yeppers to both of you. Jesus physically threw the money changers and the vendors out of the temple.

 

[Pandora]

You cannot blame him one bit. They were in the temple of all places, turning it into a den of robbers. Interesting you brought up the book of Matthew, because if you continue in chapter 21 it falls back on your original post.

The Parable of the Two Sons

28"What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, 'Son, go and work today in the vineyard.'

29" 'I will not,' he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.

30"Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, 'I will, sir,' but he did not go.

31"Which of the two did what his father wanted?"
"The first," they answered.

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Typically, I stay out of the religion forums because so many people are quick to point out a smudge on your face, when they have one or many of their own, but I wanted to revisit what Nicole asked earlier and the questions she had and give this the best shot I can.

There is a difficult struggled between the sinful natures and the Holy Spirit. It is a daily battle. People have asked in the past on this forum the question “Are people naturally good or bad?” Or maybe the question was “Are people generally evil or good?” I don’t remember, but Romans 7:18 says For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me; but how to perform what is good I do not find. Paul is writing of himself and his continuing conflict with sin which WE ALL EXPERIENCE. Paul goes on to divide the acts of the sinful nature into three areas. In Galations, you have sexual, spiritual and social sins.

In Palsm it says

16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

See what number 7 is? A man who stirs up dissension among brothers. Gossip can ruin so many things, churches have fallen because of gossip, work places become unproductive, friendships dissolved, but although he hates that it also says you shouldn’t even LOOK at someone with haughty eyes because he hates that too, but nowhere does it say one sin supercedes the other as being worse, society does that, not God. God hates all sin.

I never had to struggle with believing in God. When I was 8, I was very sick and to this day I swear an angel was sitting on my bed just before I blanked out, was rushed to the hospital and was in a doctor enduced coma for nearly a month. With all the things I had forgotten or don’t remember ever happening before hand, to include how to read, I do remember that image. I knew I wasn’t alone and I couldn’t have created that notion in my mind, because I NEVER stepped one foot in any church before that point in my life. I could have stayed angry for years, because that illness has had lasting health problems that have spanned my life since then, but I would have never experienced that knowing. It has forever been embedded into my memory, but believing and living your life the way God wants you to is something I’ve struggled over several times, every day in fact.

Nicole, you asked why are so many people unhappy and this new word I learned a few weeks back describes so many things in life, anticipointment. Life isn’t fair and it is hard, God knows that and remember death, pain, suffering wasn’t originally in God’s plan but when you are there, struggling with the trial and tribulations of life, you are never alone.

 

[Midnightrider]

People really need to read the Bible. Don't accept what I say or what a priest says or what a minister says or what a radio host says or what some TV program says. Read the Bible and know what the word of God says. Pray for understanding.

But don't you take the bible as the word of god becasue you have been told it is so?

Don't get me wrong, i respect someone who reads it for themselves rather than listening to someone elses interpretation. But if it weren't for the priests or preachers saying it was the inspired words of god, then would it be something that you put so much faith into?

 

[Penn]

But don't you take the bible as the word of god because you have been told it is so?

Don't get me wrong, i respect someone who reads it for themselves rather than listening to someone else's interpretation. But if it weren't for the priests or preachers saying it was the inspired words of god, then would it be something that you put so much faith into?

Valid points, indeed.

May I ask a question? One, have you ever read a book that "spoke" to you?

Alright, another : Have you read the Bible?

I believe it because I had the opportunity to attend a class at my church called "Disciple".

We, as a class, with the benefit of one of our lay pastors, as our leader, went through every book in the Bible- from Genesis to Revelations.

First time I had really done that - go from cover to cover.

What really came out of it - for many of us - who weren't aware, was the fulfilling of the prophesies from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

There is NO WAY someone could fake a story, a prophesy which dated back several hundreds of years before - to the present time of Jesus and His ministry in Israel.

They did not have the benefit of personal computers and databases back then. There was no way an individual could go back over records and see who said what about this or that. It did not exist.

One record was buried until the 1946-47 timeframe, however. In the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, almost the entire book of Isaiah was found intact.

The neatest thing about it is, it translates to somewhere around 95% accuracy of the book of Isaiah - that anyone can find in Bible today!

 

[Midnightrider]

Valid points, indeed.

May I ask a question? One, have you ever read a book that "spoke" to you?

Alright, another : Have you read the Bible?

I believe it because I had the opportunity to attend a class at my church called "Disciple".

We, as a class, with the benefit of one of our lay pastors, as our leader, went through every book in the Bible- from Genesis to Revelations.

First time I had really done that - go from cover to cover.

What really came out of it - for many of us - who weren't aware, was the fulfilling of the prophesies from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

There is NO WAY someone could fake a story, a prophesy which dated back several hundreds of years before - to the present time of Jesus and His ministry in Israel.

They did not have the benefit of personal computers and databases back then. There was no way an individual could go back over records and see who said what about this or that. It did not exist.

One record was buried until the 1946-47 timeframe, however. In the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, almost the entire book of Isaiah was found intact.

The neatest thing about it is, it translates to somewhere around 95% accuracy of the book of Isaiah - that anyone can find in Bible today!

I've read lots of books the "spoke" to me, but i didn't take any of them as the insipred word of god. Even if they were to have had that as the first line in the book, i wouldn't have taken them as such.

Also, just becasue the bible accurately portrays ancient stories doesn't make it any more true. If this were so, then the odyssey or the illiad would represent true accounts of actual events. These stroies are much older than the bible and also talk considerably to religion and gods.

Not to mention, there are older religious books that contain similar stories, but tout another as the true god. Why wouldn't we choose the oldest as the most accurate?

Finally, as to the prophasising that you speak of in the bible, if that were the benchmark, then wouldn't that make Nostradomus' works religious material. He allegedly predicted numerous events over hundreds of years.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
Also, just becasue the bible accurately portrays ancient stories doesn't make it any more true. If this were so, then the odyssey or the illiad would represent true accounts of actual events. These stroies are much older than the bible and also talk considerably to religion and gods....

Not true. The Iliad and the Odyssey were dated to the 8th century BC, but many scholars now prefer a date in the 7th or even the 6th century BC.They are older than the New Testament and the last portions of the Old Testament, but they are not older than most of the Old Testament.

 

[Midnightrider]

Not true. The Iliad and the Odyssey were dated to the 8th century BC, but many scholars now prefer a date in the 7th or even the 6th century BC.They are older than the New Testament and the last portions of the Old Testament, but they are not older than most of the Old Testament.

This may be true, but it is also commonly believed that Homer was just the first person to write these poems down, and that the stories are centuries older.

BTW, what is the approximate pub date of the old testament? the oldest i could find in a quick search was something like 168 BC.

 

[Penn]

One more point to ponder:

If you investigate the Resurrection of Christ, and His appearances to His disciples, as well as others(Paul, for example), you'll not find one shred of evidence against that happening, or happenings.

At the end of Matthew - chapt 28, vs 11-15, there is evidence that the Pharisees and/or the Sanhedrin, did attempt to bribe the soldiers who were guarding the tomb where Jesus lay, and later rose from, telling them to say His disciples had come during the night and stole Him away.

THAT is the only story I have ever heard of that tries to dispel the notion that Christ was indeed Resurrected from His grave.

Something like 11 or 12 times, He appeared to different people- also called Epiphanies - where the risen Christ had shown Himself, over and over.

All the centuries that have past, and there is no definitve proof that He did not rise from the grave??

That is why I think the disciples of Christ, all 11 of them, I believe, went out on into the world to preach His teachings, and, on His behalf were not afraid to martyr themselves for Him.

That there is some serious belief.

These men and women saw Him! What greater proof would they need?

 

[Midnightrider]

One more point to ponder:

If you investigate the Resurrection of Christ, and His appearances to His disciples, as well as others(Paul, for example), you'll not find one shred of evidence against that happening, or happenings.

Other than the bible, is there any evidence that this DID happen?

 

[Penn]

Other than the bible, is there any evidence that this DID happen?

I'm looking, but like I said, there are no writings that say it never happened.

Why?

You gotta figure - the Pharisees and Sanhedrins exerted a lot of influence during that time period in Israel/Jerusalem - one would think that they could have come up with something better - than a bribe to the soldiers guarding the grave, saying that He was stolen in the night!

That's it? Come guys, that's rather a half-hearted attempt.

 

[Midnightrider]

I'm looking, but like I said, there are no writings that say it never happened.

Why?

You gotta figure - the Pharisees and Sanhedrins exerted a lot of influence during that time period in Israel/Jerusalem - one would think that they could have come up with something better - than a bribe to the soldiers guarding the grave, saying that He was stolen in the night!

That's it? Come guys, that's rather a half-hearted attempt.

If it never happened there would be no reason to write about it. If it did, i would think everyone would have written a story about it.

It is almost impossible to prove a negative.

 

[Penn]

http://www.bookofconcord.org/creeds.html

The Nicean Creed arose from the Council of Nicaea: If you'll note - 325AD.

It is not in the Bible, however, you can find it in most Hymnals.


12 June 2006
Council of Nicaea
Summer, AD 325

The Christian Church's First Ecumenical Council was convened in Nicaea (modern Isnuk, Turkey) in the early summer of AD 325 by the Roman Emperor Constantine. The emperor presided at the opening of the council. The major intended topic was the ongoing Arian controversy.

The council ruled against the Arians, who taught that Jesus was not the eternal Son of God but was created by the Father and was called Son of God because of his righteousness. The chief opponents of the Arians were Alexander, bishop of Alexandria, and his deacon, Athanasius. The council confessed the eternal divinity of Jesus and adopted the earliest version of the Nicene Creed, which in its entirety was adopted at the Council of Constantinople in 381.

Other topics included the celebration of the Resurrection and how the date for Easter would correspond with Passover, the Miletian schism, validity of baptism by heretics, and the restoration lapsed Christians who renounced the Faith under persecution.

 

[Penn]

http://www.bookofconcord.org/creeds.html

Actually, if you study each of these documents, each by 3 different authors, you'll see they all acknowledge the risen Christ.

 

[Midnightrider]

http://www.bookofconcord.org/creeds.html

Actually, if you study each of these documents, each by 3 different authors, you'll see they all acknowledge the risen Christ.

But aren't they all documents written by catholics, and a considerable time after the event?

 

[Penn]

But aren't they all documents written by catholics, and a considerable time after the event?

The last one is a Catholic document, the creed that Athanasius wrote.

The other two are not. The date, well I would attribute that to the time it took for persecution of the believers to cease, whereas they were the biggest portion of food for the lions and tigers at the coliseum in Rome.

It took a while.

John supposedly wrote his gospel somewhere near the end of 125AD. Given the grand scheme of things, 200 years is not that big a timeframe.

However, you asked if there were documents supporting the Resurrection that were not in the Bible. They arose out of a Roman Council in Nicea.

You have them.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

What are you excited about? Apparently he loves everyone, idiot.

It just takes away from the reward of being good, that is all I am saying, if everyone is loved on the same level then why try to be a better person.

I am not saying one way or the other if there is a God or not. In my heart yes, in my mind not sure but I certainly don't think that this is the way of there was one.

 

[Nicole_in_somd]

I try to attend church every Sunday, I also attend an Adult Sunday School class as well, which I go to prior to the church service.

From our readings and discussions, I would say your first statement is unequivocally true. As 2ndA already said, we're all sinners, that's not going to change; never has and never will. When you do find yourself committing a sin, you should acknowledge that fact, and then ask the Lord for forgiveness.

Yes, you have to really make an effort to not revisit that same sin, whether it's a vow to yourself and God, or to another(like confessing to a priest).

I'm not that self-righteous, where I'm going to say I have not revisited a past sin, but I do immediately recognize I've done it again, and say out loud "Father forgive me, I should know better."(for example)

Maybe one of these days, I'll be free from committing that particular sin, but like 2ndA again said earlier, there are more sins you're likely guilty of, maybe not even aware of.

It may be hard to accept, but even those in prison for the most heinous of crimes are said to receive redemption from the Lord IF they really mean what they say when they confess their sin(s) before God.

As I stated earlier, there's only one sin you can never be forgiven of: blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. There is a text in the Old Testament to that concern.

That was really nice of you. Thanks. I can see that.

But as far as all the sins we are doing without knowing it, I am not so sure about. Life should not be that hard. You know?