Going forward

[MGKrebs]

That may be true,

but with power comes responsibility. Big companies that can have an effect on the environment have a responsibility to be, well, responsible. Bosses have a responsibility to be fair with their employees. Parents have to be responsible for their kids. I think the question is how, how responsible is this kind of attitude? Just because Hitler or Stalin tried to be a bully doesn't mean we have to, and it doesn't make it right.

I'm going to say this again; THERE ARE OTHER CHOICES THAN DOING NOTHING AND MILITARY INTERVENTION. I am sure we are doing some of them, but our goals in the end seem to me to be to consolidate our power and become the ruler of the world.

Penn- I hear you, and we are just going to disagree on this a little bit. We are probably not going to know what the real story is until it's over. There has just been enough stuff floating around out there to make me skeptical.

 

[Kain99]

Re: That may be true,

Originally posted by MGKrebs
I'm going to say this again; THERE ARE OTHER CHOICES THAN DOING NOTHING AND MILITARY INTERVENTION. I am sure we are doing some of them, but our goals in the end seem to me to be to consolidate our power and become the ruler of the world.

Krebs, Maybe it's just impossible for a nice person to comprehend evil. For well over 11 years, Saddam Hussein has spit in the face of UN resolutions. This fact alone, proves that he he is unwilling to negotiate, or work with the world. Unfortunately, this fact blows your theroy of "Other Choices" right out of the water!

Diplomacy not backed by the threat of force has never worked with dictators and will never work period!

War is scary..... but if we take your course (again) Saddam will carry on, his efforts will intensify, his confidence will grow, and at some point in the future, not too distant, the threat will turn into reality.

Comparing the United States to a Bully attempting to get his own way is ridiculous!

Obviously you've spent just a little to much time in your warm safe bed! Easy to make dumb statements when you've never faced tyranny and terror.

Back in 1998 I had the pleasure of meeting two wonderful Iraqi women who were here in the United States temporarily...

Both of them were so terrified of Saddam that neither of them would even speak his name for fear of retribution! *Death* Now how would you like living under that type of terror. Two women Thousands of miles from Iraq having dinner at the Lighthouse Inn bowing their heads in silence when asked about your buddy.

The atrocities in Iraq are more than I think you can imagine Krebs. This isn't about becoming an even larger Super Power... It's about saving the world from Pure Evil.

 

[Penn]

This may be the truest statement made yet . . .

Originally posted by Kain99
Krebs, Maybe it's just impossible for a nice person to comprehend evil. For well over 11 years, Saddam Hussein has spit in the face of UN resolutions. This fact alone, proves that he he is unwilling to negotiate, or work with the world. Unfortunately, this fact blows your theroy of "Other Choices" right out of the water!

Diplomacy not backed by the threat of force has never worked with dictators and will never work period!

War is scary..... but if we take your course (again) Saddam will carry on, his efforts will intensify, his confidence will grow, and at some point in the future, not too distant, the threat will turn into reality.

Back in 1998 I had the pleasure of meeting two wonderful Iraqi women who were here in the United States temporarily...

Both of them were so terrified of Saddam that neither of them would even speak his name for of retribution! *Death* Now how would you like living under that type of terror. Two women Thousands of miles from Iraq having dinner at the Lighthouse Inn bowing their heads in silence when asked about your buddy.

The atrocities in Iraq are more than I think you can imagine Krebs. This isn't about becoming an even larger Super Power... It's about saving the world from Pure Evil.

Reading your piece here doesen't leave much more to be said, Kain. Amen to that.

penn

 

[demsformd]

Originally posted by Heretic
dems, what changed your mind exactly?

One of the reasons I left the democratic party is because I believed that most of the members wouldnt listen to any other view than their own. I have to respect the fact that you listened to the other view (even if you hadn't come over to it).

Maybe your not so bad after all

Thank you for the kind words Heretic and VRA. I changed my opinion because I removed my suspicison that the war in Iraq would be the same as Vietnam. We have a vital interest in stopping Hussein and his development of weapons of mass destuction. I also thought back to World War II when our nation won after we dropped the bomb in Japan. That has caused Japan to become one of the most peaceful nations if you ask me. We will not be able to win the Arab heart thus we must harm them. They will love us when we win.

And I have always disagreed with the party on issues like gun control and some environmental protection areas. Just add this to my disagreements with the Democratic Party.

I honestly do not believe that President Bush's intention here is to do what I said I believed. I agree with Krebs that oil has a much higher reason for the war in the White House but still if he does what he says he is gonna do, it will aid our nation and the pursuit of peace.

 

[Frank]

Originally posted by jetmonkey
It is a little convenient that Iraq is estimated to have the second highest untapped oil reserves of any nation. I read a great op/ed piece in the Post a while back about how, regardless of the size of their reserves, taking Iraq would really have little short or mid term effect on oil stability. I've tried to find it to no avail. Anyone remember this article or have a link to it?

It's because oil stability is linked to the *production* of oil, and Iraq's is pitifully small. It doesn't matter how much is in the ground. And it would take a LONG time for anyone to boost it substantially.

 

[Penn]

Hurry, Martha . . .It's the Big one . . . .

Originally posted by demsformd
We have a vital interest in stopping Hussein and his development of weapons of mass destuction. I also thought back to World War II when our nation won after we dropped the bomb in Japan. That has caused Japan to become one of the most peaceful nations if you ask me. We will not be able to win the Arab heart thus we must harm them. They will love us when we win.

And I have always disagreed with the party on issues like gun control and some environmental protection areas. Just add this to my disagreements with the Democratic Party.

I honestly do not believe that President Bush's intention here is to do what I said I believed. I agree with Krebs that oil has a much higher reason for the war in the White House but still if he does what he says he is gonna do, it will aid our nation and the pursuit of peace.

OHH MYY GAWD!!! Demsformd has come back from the Dark Side!!! I'm not sure I know how to handle this.
The man has seen the glory, the writing on the wall has suddenlly become very clear to him now! Kain and Water, there truly is a God, and Dems has come face to face to Him!
"But if Pres. Bush does what he says he is gonna do, it will aid our nation. . . . . ."

Welcome to the home of the true believers, Dems!

penn

 

[vraiblonde]

Don't you pay any attention to those taunters, Dems - there's nothing wrong with having your own opinions and not following party rhetoric in lockstep.

 

[kelley]

There, my cable finally works. Sorry about the hiatus but I'm back. I support the administration no matter what road they take but at this point I think that a war with Iraq, while better avoidable, has come to the point where it is unavoidable. To Krebs, as Democrats we are supporters of international intervention when a nation acts wrongly, wouldn't you agree? We supported Kosovo, Somalia, and a score of other conflicts that had nothing to do with our nation. As the most powerful nation in the world, we have the responsibility to curb the oppressive societies of America and to ensure that ours is free from foreign nuclear attacks. I feel that true Democrats and true Americans would support the war because now we are fighting an enemy akin to Hitler and Hiroitho or whatever his name was.

 

[smcdem]

No War

We don't need to be creating situations that don't need to be created... If we attack we put America more in danger than if we do not attack... Iraq has shown no real threat to America and there has been no legit. connection to bin laden...We need to be focusing on the war on terroism not a war to bulster Bush's ego about his daddy and his poll numbers... the war woulld cost an estimated 2.9 trillion dollars...yeah down the drain while we have a 300 billion dollar debt on our hand...France and even South Africa have nukes and we do not ask them to disarm...they like Iraq have no intention to use them on us. Give me clear evidence that Iraq will nuke america..give me it. U DONT HAVE ANY!!! its just a political plot for bush to look amazing...O i can't wait till 04...o I can't wait...

 

[Larry Gude]

smcdem...

Stop it. You're being...crude

bah, ha, ha!!!!

 

[Larry Gude]

Iraq, megadeath and you

Hmm..

Iraq has shown no real threat to America and there has been no legit. connection to bin laden...We need to be focusing on the war on terroism not a war to bulster Bush's ego about his daddy and his poll numbers...

Whaddya think about this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/521246/posts

 

[smcdem]

Many of these claims have no documentation...sorry not good enough.

 

[vraiblonde]

@ Smcdem! Well aren't you and Dems just a pair of cutie pies?


I must say, though, you should really find a more flattering portrait of your hero - he looks like he's back in his non-inhaling days.

 

[vraiblonde]

What's Bill Clinton's favorite body part?

*ssssstttttttt* *snort* ear


and @ Jet

 

[Penn]

America, home of the free and opressed

Originally posted by kelley
I support the administration no matter what road they take but at this point I think that a war with Iraq, while better avoidable, has come to the point where it is unavoidable.

"As the most powerful nation in the world, we have the responsibility to curb the oppressive societies of America" . . .

Gee, Kelley, I agree with most everything you said, but is that what you really meant to say?

penn

 

[Penn]

We don't need no stinkin' war, senor!

Originally posted by smcdem
We don't need to be creating situations that don't need to be created...

If we attack we put America more in danger than if we do not attack...

Iraq has shown no real threat to America and there has been no legit. connection to bin laden...

O, I can't wait till 04...o I can't wait...

Oh My Gawd(again!) We get one maybe two- Krebs? opening up their thinking, showing some learned
ideating, and up pops another liberal illiterate sort! Is there no end to this? Stamp! Stamp! Stomp! Stomp! Nope, seems to be no end to 'em! They're like ants escaping from the nest! Cripes, anybody got a can of Raid? OOPs! Nixon already tried that one before, didn't he?


penn

 

[kelley]

Now, now, leave the liberals alone. They have opinions just like the conservatives and the moderates. And oh my god, if we did grammar checks of our posts, it would take hours.

 

[smcdem]

Go over and kill innocent Iraqi people and steal their Oil. Cmon thats all what bush cares about.

 

[kelley]

Re: America, home of the free and opressed

Originally posted by penncam
Gee, Kelley, I agree with most everything you said, but is that what you really meant to say?

penn

Oh, whoops. My bad, you guys know what I meant. I'm just a blonde college coed who had WAY too much fun last night.

 

[kelley]

Originally posted by smcdem
Go over and kill innocent Iraqi people and steal their Oil. Cmon thats all what bush cares about.

I agree little man, but in the end despite our President's true motivation, killing the Iraqis will do more than leaving them alone.