Great View on Illegal Immigration

[T.Rally]

They are if you also tighten up the benefits and do away with the idea that the minimum wage must be a living wage which it will never be.

What should be done?

Round up 9+million people and arrest them en masse or grant them all amnesty?

Shouldn't we enforce the immigration laws (is this cliche or what?) already on the books? Lack of enforcement has been the central problem of immigration policy. Congress can design the most elegant legal and administrative framework imaginable, but it won’t matter if the immigration authorities are not permitted to use it to enforce the law.

The enforcement approach we must adopt, then, is clear — put pressure on illegal immigrants so that more of them leave and fewer new ones come, and we will see the illegal population start to decline, allowing the problem, over time, to take care of itself.

...maybe?

 

[2ndAmendment]

What should be done?

Round up 9+million people and arrest them en masse or grant them all amnesty?

Shouldn't we enforce the immigration laws (is this cliche or what?) already on the books? Lack of enforcement has been the central problem of immigration policy. Congress can design the most elegant legal and administrative framework imaginable, but it won’t matter if the immigration authorities are not permitted to use it to enforce the law.

The enforcement approach we must adopt, then, is clear — put pressure on illegal immigrants so that more of them leave and fewer new ones come, and we will see the illegal population start to decline, allowing the problem, over time, to take care of itself.

...maybe?

There are too many loopholes in the system. A pregnant woman comes to the U.S. illegally and the second her child is born, the kid becomes a U.S. citizen. Because her child is a U.S. citizen, it is entitled to stay in the U.S. Because the child is entitled to stay in the U.S., the mother is allowed to stay on the premise (and I agree) you cannot separate a child, especially a new born, from its mother. Since it is against the American mores to separate a husband and wife, the husband stays. Of course you have to let the rest of the kids stay, because you cannot separate the family.

Close this one loophole so that kids born to illegals do not automatically get citizenship, and now you can pack the whole family off to where they came from. This one loophole is a very desirable one for illegals; the kid becomes a citizen automatically and everyone in the family gets to stay, and the kid is entitled to benefits under the welfare and Social Security system which often is translated into benefits for the whole family.

Oh, and I think you round up the illegals, and the figure is more like 11+ million, and ship them back to where they came from. Actually, I think if we made it impossible for them to work or get benefits in this country, most would leave of their own accord except for the ones that came here with ill intent and are the terrorists in waiting or just plain criminals.

 

[Triggerfish]

Oh, and I think you round up the illegals, and the figure is more like 11+ million, and ship them back to where they came from.

I don't like illegal immigration but that really sounds expensive. Especially if you really want to send them back to where they came from. Imagine sorting them so they get sent to the right place and shipping them back. Granted most in the SW would be from Mexico, in Florida would be Cuba, and a large number of Chinese illegals in the west coast and large cities in on the east coast like NYC.

but you can't send an illegal immigrant from China or Russia to Mexico. Even if the U.S. wanted to no way Mexico would accept them.

 

[Ken King]

I don't like illegal immigration but that really sounds expensive. Especially if you really want to send them back to where they came from. Imagine sorting them so they get sent to the right place and shipping them back. Granted most in the SW would be from Mexico, in Florida would be Cuba, and a large number of Chinese illegals in the west coast and large cities in on the east coast like NYC.

but you can't send an illegal immigrant from China or Russia to Mexico. Even if the U.S. wanted to no way Mexico would accept them.

Didn't we (our government) start sending the Mexican illegals to Mexico City recently? A nice plane ride and all. Why not do it with the other nations too and then send them a bill via the UN?

 

[Triggerfish]

Didn't we (our government) start sending the Mexican illegals to Mexico City recently? A nice plane ride and all. Why not do it with the other nations too and then send them a bill via the UN?

Weren't those just the ones that were captured sneaking across the border? We were talking about rounding up all illegals....millions....probably over 10 million and large portion from Mexico. Mexico probably has enough cash for paying the bill for a few thousand but millions? I doubt that. I'm not sure worsening Mexico's economy is really a good idea.

 

[Ken King]

Weren't those just the ones that were captured sneaking across the border? We were talking about rounding up all illegals....millions....probably over 10 million and large portion from Mexico. Mexico probably has enough cash for paying the bill for a few thousand but millions? I doubt that. I'm not sure worsening Mexico's economy is really a good idea.

Can't send back the ones you don't catch, now can you? Sending them to Mexico City probably won't curtail the movement either, but it makes it tougher on those that used to only have to turn right around and sneak back the next night.

And why not make the home nation pay all or part of the tab, maybe it would motivate them to fix up their country a little to keep their people there or at least crack down on the border jumpers on their side of the fence. I ask what is your fix to this problem, something needs to be done or do you advocate a "do nothing" approach?

 

[Triggerfish]

Can't send back the ones you don't catch, now can you?

I said the ones sneaking across the border. Sometimes they get caught already in country say a place of employment."

 

[Triggerfish]

And why not make the home nation pay all or part of the tab, maybe it would motivate them to fix up their country a little to keep their people there or at least crack down on the border jumpers on their side of the fence. I ask what is your fix to this problem, something needs to be done or do you advocate a "do nothing" approach?

Some of those countries are so screwed up it will take several decades to fix. Charging them will probably only make the situation worse, considering some of these countries are so poor they probably can't even pay off the debts that they already have.


I say do something but I haven't thought of anything that will work nor have I seen or heard anybody bring up anything that works either.

Sometimes doing something than nothing is better but other times doing something rather than nothing can make the situation worse. Politicians have been trying to figure out what to do in this nation for decades and so far no solution. :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

Some of those countries are so screwed up it will take several decades to fix. Charging them will probably only make the situation worse, considering some of these countries are so poor they probably can't even pay off the debts that they already have.


I say do something but I haven't thought of anything that will work nor have I seen or heard anybody bring up anything that works either.

Sometimes doing something than nothing is better but other times doing something rather than nothing can make the situation worse. Politicians have been trying to figure out what to do in this nation for decades and so far no solution. :shrug:

So because they are screwed up we just suck it up and suffer? Deduct our expenses for shipping them home from our UN tab, it is after all a global problem.

We have laws in place, we know it's illegal, but do we actively combat it? What will fix it is to get serious and staff the borders the way it needs doing. Politicians aren't serious about it or it would have been fixed. Some politicians think we should have rest stations and water stops for the aliens along their routes and will fuind that but they won't give the funds to actually slow the flow.

 

[Triggerfish]

So because they are screwed up we just suck it up and suffer?.

Are you suggesting we do something just to do something? The idea of trying to deport every illegal or even most is impossible and very costly. Suffer? Expect our taxes to go up a lot higher if we try that route.



I don't know if it would work but I think that anyone that hires illegal should be criminally charged. I don't think they should be charge dif they were mislead by something like a fake ID. BTW why are illegals allowed to get driver''s licenses in some states? As for fining a company that does that I have a feeling that may raise prices in stores.

 

[Ken King]

Are you suggesting we do something just to do something? The idea of trying to deport every illegal or even most is impossible and very costly. Suffer? Expect our taxes to go up a lot higher if we try that route.



I don't know if it would work but I think that anyone that hires illegal should be criminally charged. I don't think they should be charge dif they were mislead by something like a fake ID. BTW why are illegals allowed to get driver''s licenses in some states? As for fining a company that does that I have a feeling that may raise prices in stores.

No, I suggest that we do what we already have laws for, namely round them up and deport them. I would also like to see our "debt to the world" (AKA UN dues) be reduced by any expenses incurred by shipping these illegals home.

I have no problem with those that arrive legally but something must be done about the ongoing illegal activity other than giving them medicare, schooling, and other care.

 

[willie]

No, I suggest that we do what we already have laws for, namely round them up and deport them. I would also like to see our "debt to the world" (AKA UN dues) be reduced by any expenses incurred by shipping these illegals home.

I have no problem with those that arrive legally but something must be done about the ongoing illegal activity other than giving them medicare, schooling, and other care.

Why is it that we need a new law for everything that pops up? What we really need is the balls to enforce the laws that are already in place.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Why is it that we need a new law for everything that pops up? What we really need is the balls to enforce the laws that are already in place.

The "new law syndrome" that politicians have is to be able to say, "see what I did". They can't do that if all we do is enforce current law.

I really think that a lot of every ledgislative session at all levels should be removing old, obsolete, and conflicting laws from the books like a woman's bustle is not allowed to stick out more than 22 inches or you have to to have a runner carrying a lantern 300 feet in front of your carriage at night.

In my opinion, the total of all the laws for the federal, state, and local level should be such that a person of reasonable reading ability could read and understand all of them in one day.

 

[ylexot]

I really think that a lot of every ledgislative session at all levels should be removing old, obsolete, and conflicting laws from the books like a woman's bustle is not allowed to stick out more than 22 inches or you have to to have a runner carrying a lantern 300 feet in front of your carriage at night.

My friend and I had the idea that there should be a rule where a session of Congress is not allowed to propose/discuss/etc on new legislation until they review (and repeal if necessary) the legislation from earlier years (which year(s) is TBD). There would also need to be an emergency clause to take care of urgent business...something like 3/4 of the House and Senate plus Presidential approval. Who knows...maybe they'd learn something if they had to read the laws.

 

[SamSpade]

Why is it that we need a new law for everything that pops up? What we really need is the balls to enforce the laws that are already in place.

I've always thought that - however, my single visit to law school classes revealed something to me I didn't realize, but it seems obvious - many laws were created and are created for the sole purpose of dealing with ONE individual or situation. The example given in class were the handful of laws passed by one city with the purpose of shutting down advertising by a man who ran a legitimate massage business but which had been "caught" in the past doing things other than legal "massage". When they passed laws keeping him from the Yellow Pages, he went to billboards, and so on. Most of the antiquated silly laws we hear about came about for just such a reason - they were created for small number of violators. Enforcing THOSE laws would be a waste of time.

Which brings me to my main point - how DO cops capture lawbreakers? From my unsophisticated viewpoint, it appears they have three major channels of input - they catch it with their own eyes; they get a call; or they sit and wait somewhere for it to happen.

I guess it annoys me when driving down 235, I can share the road with idiots who pull out in front of me, who change lanes recklessly; who routinely go through what is obviously a red light; who make illegal turns and engage in what is clearly reckless driving - but the cops are sitting on their brains down the road trying to catch someone going 15 miles over the speed limit but are otherwise not terribly dangerous to anyone. I don't think catching speeders is a particularly useful use of police man hours.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I also find it disconcerting that the police violate the laws themselves. No turn signals, changing lanes in an intersection, using siren and lights to avoid stopping at intersection, speeding, running stop signs, changing lanes without using turn signals, and the list goes on.

One major problem with law enforcement is that it attracts people that want to have control over others while being exempt from control themselves. You become subject to their whims. If they are having a good day or they are your friend or you are attractive, you get off with a warning. If the cop is having a bad day or circumstances are other than in the "good" case, you get a ticket. Some of the people I know that became cops were some of the people that others avoided because they were bullies, were controlling, or had some other character flaw that was better avoided than confronted.

 

[Toxick]

In my opinion, the total of all the laws for the federal, state, and local level should be such that a person of reasonable reading ability could read and understand all of them in one day.

This is probably one of the most intelligent statements I've ever read.





Just so you know: No sarcasm here.

 

[Anvil]

Anybody been to pointlook state park on a weekend latley?

 

[Larry Gude]

Get your mind around this...

Those in the audience staunchly against open borders said that corporations that hire illegal aliens should be punished by the government. Metti disagreed. "You want to punish people for giving people jobs?" he said.

We have people coming here who want to work and are willing to work hard. I can give you endless stories, first and second hand accounts, of company after company who have grown so tired of Americans as employees. Especially young Americans. All they care about is what time break and lunch are, how many sick days, what are the benies, how much vacation, whens the next raise and what holidays are they off and get paid for.

We don't want hard working, industrious, reliable people?

 

[ylexot]

I can give you endless stories, first and second hand accounts, of company after company who have grown so tired of Americans as employees. Especially young Americans. All they care about is what time break and lunch are, how many sick days, what are the benies, how much vacation, whens the next raise and what holidays are they off and get paid for.

Can we deport them instead?

Sounds like a good trade!