Harry Potter...

[andwhat]

hey blonde,
don't be jumping on me about being close minded, i at least gave christianity a try and simply tried to figure out any logical argument these people had against Harry Potter. I was open enough to listen to their arguments and their justifications, but alas they didn't present anything besides I'm a christian and I say so and thats why.
Besides you're the one that says: don't try to teach a pig to sing....
What if its a magical singing pig with a spell cast on it?
How do you know a pig can't sing if you never try, answer you don't. Thats what having an open mind is about. And since you were nice enought ot take my quote out of context I was put it into context for you. If you read everything leading up to that line you will notice how I said that I read everything I could to try and experience them and learn and keep an open mind. So that I wouldn't become closeminded like them.

 

[John]

Hmmmm...

No. Instead you brand them as "bigots, morons, Jesus Freaks etc." and label them "intolerant".

To this agnostic it seems to me, Jimmy, andwhat and Daniel are being the intolerant ones.

The left loves to brand and gag. That's essentially what shouting them down everytime they profess their beliefs intends to do....Gag their ideas.

I'd say you've epitomized "intolerant"!

You originally asked Pmoney why she wouldn't take her kids to see it and have been blasting those that disagreed ever since.  It's a damn movie. How does it harm you that she doesn't like it?  

Get over it!

 

[John]

Quote: I was open enough to listen to their arguments and their justifications, but alas they didn't present anything besides I'm a christian and I say so and thats why.

So why isn't that enough of a reason?

 

[vraiblonde]

Jimmy, what on Earth are you talking about?  This is the Harry Potter forum - nobody's said anything in here about gays.  Or are you insinuating that Harry Potter is gay and in need of protection?

Now andwhat wants to teach magical pigs to sing - ya'll are too much.

 

[andwhat]

Because the whole point of enetering a forum is to voice your opinion and explain to others why you think that way and to discuss it. To say its evil is fine as long as you say why you think that way and try and explain it. But for much of the forum noone did they, they just said why are you questioning me. If you check the entire forum you will see that Pmoney, Hessien and BBC have judged this movie as evil and wrong even though they have no experience with that. We were askign how you can make that call and why would you make that call.
Honestly I thought we had reached a conclusion when Pmoney stopped submitting and we finally reached an answer that we were all cool with, she chose not to see it or let her kids see it and explained why and we disagreed but were like cool, at leats now we understand.
As for us labeling them bigots, freaks and intolerant, go check Hessien's comments on how all gays should die and shouldn't be afforded the same proteections as everyone else, as guaranteed under the constitution. Not once did any of us say that all Christians should be killed or not protected and afforded the same rights as all others. This whole forum started with us trying to figure out what they were saying and trying to understand why they thought that way. Have they once tried to see things in our light or ask us why we think that way? No.
As for justification, sorry but b/c I say so isn't much of one especially when you enter onto a forum to discuss things. Its like playing basketball with a group of guys and when you lose you take your basketball home and don't let anyone else play.  So explain to me again how I'm intolerant if I'm asking them to explain what they mean and why I think that way and they just say that i'm wrong b/c I'm not christian.

 

[andwhat]

Blonde,
you gotta admit a singin pig would be pretty cool.

 

[vraiblonde]

you gotta admit a singin pig would be pretty cool.

Already got one - we call it Barbra Streisand.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

Andwhat,

How can I even take anything you say seriously when you attack Christians.  I have not said anything out of the way to you other than what the Word of God says.  If you are not a Christian then of course you are going to try your best to disprove the Bible and what it says.  I am sure the Devil knows the Bible very well too, but that has not stopped his deception and deceit.

You guys have yet to prove to me that God does not exist.  Many have tried and continue to fail.  So as far as Jimmy proving the Bible has fallicies or that the Catholic Church has any true biblical authority, I am yet to be convinced of that.  Catholics believe that they have to go through a priest to get forgiveness.  Show me in the Bible where it says that you have to do that.

You guys are hoping that we will accept your liberal views on Harry Potter and you want us to be tolerant of that, but when did you guys become tolerant of our views?  Andwhat, don't use scripture against me when it does not even apply to your life.  I am not judging anyone, only God can do that.

Matthew 13: 9-16, who hath ears to hear, let him hear. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:  For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[Jimmyrich]

Blonde,

Once again, you are not understanding what I've said.  Harry Potter gay? What are you talking about?  I brought the gay thing up as an example of how people in this forum are using Christianity to defend calls to action against 'gays' and 'harry potter' as two examples.  No need to read more into that than there is.

John,

The comment about the Jesus Freaks was done only to point out that that is NOT what I have been doing here. It has been the Fundamentalists that have done the branding of things being wrong and evil.  We have merely defended those things. If you'll keep looking back, this post was started NOT because TT wouldn't take his kids to see the movie, it was started by Hessian who said that the movie was evil and dangerous. Then, TT came in and agreed and said that he wouldn't take his kids to it either. When asked to explain, "becuase I'm the Parent" and "because I'm a Christian" were the only responses. Why aren't they ENOUGH, you ask? Because that's not a "reason"; that's a cop out. If you have no sound backing for your arguement, and you're called out on it, you respond with a blanket statement that can't be challenged. It's a logical fallacy in debate.  "Well that's what I feel, so tough!"--those are the words of a defeated man.  And you ask how it harms me that TT doesn't see the movie? It doesn't.  But how does it harm her/hessian/bbc and those who oppose it? That's what we've been asking and we've basically been fed a stream of side-stepping and baseless answers, except by Hessian, who thankfully responds and affirms that he doesn't know what he's talking about.  
John, you too are missing the point. You're looking for Christianity-Bashing here and trying to find it whereever you can. But you, and Vrai, won't find it. What you WILL find are specific arguments directed at statements made by people on this thread and in this forum. Intolerant is not accepting of someone's beliefs. Saying Harry Potter is dangerous because it promotes witchcraft and devil-worship and then not giving examples OR basis for why that would even be dangerous if it WERE the case; THAT is intollerant.  Merely "calling" THOSE beliefs intollerant, is not.

 

[John]

Quote: from andwhat on 10:55 am on Nov. 27, 2001[br] To say its evil is fine as long as you say why you think that way and try and explain it....As for us labeling them bigots, freaks and intolerant, go check Hessien's comments on how all gays should die and shouldn't be afforded the same proteections as everyone else.

Just where in this thread does that come from? I haven't found it.

This is supposed to be a forum for "Reviews"!  Hmmmm...

You like something or you don't! Nothing more complex.

Politics is another forum.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

Jimmy and andwhat,

Stop blaming christians for the things that are said by me.  If you notice, the things that I have said are out of the Bible.  If you want to blame somebody then blame God.  All I am doing is passing His Word on to you.  Don't get mad at me.  I am only a man!

 

[John]

Jimmy,

I'm not missing the point.....I believe you may be.  This movie is trivial. It's not even important "why" they don't like it or won't take their kids to it. Being a parent requires you to make choices on what can be a positive or negative influence on your children. If it contradicts what they believe and teach their offspring in even the least they have every right to eliminate it from influencing their children. i.e. "Well that's what I feel, so tough!"

It's not defeat. It's conviction! Something lefties seem to have little of.

As for me "looking for Christian bashing..."
There are so many instances of it from the three of you that it would look like an Al Gore speech if I copied them all.
And I didn't need to look hard.

When you, andwhat and Daniel insisted you need a more elaborate answer than their explanation, you were being intolerant.

You attempt to belittle their belief by insisting it isn't enough, that their religion doesn't have a place in what they watch or how they percieve it.

I don't look for bashing of religion....But I recognize it when I see it.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

Andwhat,

Don't try and tell me what I know about Harry Potter because I have done my own research on it and it is clear to me that I don't want to watch the movie or read the books.  I will not sacrifice my beliefs just because you think it is ok to watch the movie.

 

[andwhat]

John,
I totally agree with you on this one. Its supposed to eb a forum on reviews. you say, I loved it, i hated it. Then poeple say this is why I didn't like it blah, blah, blah. It'd be great if thats what this would turn into. But Hessien started by saying this movie is wrong and evil and dangerous without even seeing it. So in my best little kid voice "he started it."
BBC, I haven't once tried to disprove God or convince you that he doesn't exist. I know that I couldn't convince of such a thing, regardless of it was true or not. I simply came onto this forum to try and get people to ahve an openmind and experience something before they judge it. I was a christian most of my life, I decided it wasn't for me, I'm not now. Thats it, end of that one I've moved on. But at least I tried first before I said that christianity was wrong and evil and dangerous. In truth if we look throughout history, the misuse of religion ahs indeed been the most dangerous of all human justifications, i.e. the crusades, the holocaust, the stalin purges, the persecution of the christians etc. It si b/c these things were misunderstood that they were labelled bad and so I'm just trying to make sure that people at least know what they are talking about before they judge. those who do not learn their history, are bound to repeat it.As for Hessien trying to kill all the "fags" as he put it. That was in one of the politics forums when he went off about the bill that passed granted gays and lesbians equal protection under the law not to be discriminated against.

 

[John]

AndWhat,

If he's seen at least one damn commercial he's gonna know what the subject matter of the film is...It doesn't take clarivoyance or watching the silly thing.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

Hessian is wrong if he said he wanted to kill anybody, so I don't agree with that.  But don't label me with him.  He has a different outlook on things than I do.

Back to Harry Potter,

I did my research on Harry Potter and even read a few things from the books.  I determined for myself based on my strong beliefs in Christianity that I will not see this movie.  I am very open-minded about alot of things and I even considered going to see the movie myself to understand it, but I was led to do the research by the internet and reading.  

If anyone wants to see this movie then they can go right ahead and do that.  I am not going to judge you because of it, but I will let you know what the Word of God says and if you disagree with that then go right ahead.  Just don't attempt to make me feel like I need to abandon my beliefs because you changed yours.  I have a college education and vast amounts of experiences that God blessed me with, but I never let man confuse me so much to allow my beliefs to be sabatoged.  I always go to my source in heaven who has never left me nor forsaken me.  When my friends gave up on me or used me, God was still there to bring me along the way.  I have to trust in him.  Man has failed me so many times, that is why I don't want to see Harry Potter or any other movie like it, because God told me not to.

 

[andwhat]

Ok so he gets the general idea, I guess I'm throwing too many people together on this one. Its one thing to say that the movie is about magic and wizardry, whihc it most plainly is. Its another thing entirely when Hessien starts saying its dangerous and promotes satanism.
BBC, if you don't want to watch the movie b/c it goes against your personal beliefs, then groovy, more power to you. If you're happy with that choice, then so am I. But to start calling the movie dangerous and evil and wrong and telling everyone they shouldn't see it is what I personally have a problem with. I'm glad that you don't feel like seeing it if seeing it would compromise your beliefs. But when hessien tells everyone else not to see it or they are going to hell thats a problem. What we just went through with you BBC is the same as TT, we went all round about just till you said I don't want to see it. thats all this forum ever had to be was you come one, you say you don't like it, don't want to see it, this is why and someone else says i liked it this is why. But it got twisted b/c some people started making moral decisions about the movie without seeing it, reading the books whatever. Our backlash was not about his christianity, it was about his closemindedness and the fact that he kept falling back on his christianity inferred that christianity promotes close mindedness which I'm sure many people would like to argue. So I'm sorry you're not going to miss the movie, its alot of fun but to each their own.

 

[Christy]

I always find it interesting pontificating that goes on when one feels they are the "real Christian".  You can't possibly be a Christian if you don't interpret the Bible exactly how you do.  As someone who "claims to be Christian", but obviously is not Christian enough to understand the concept of "set apart", let me just add more unelightened commentary on my bastardized perception of the Bible (as it can't possibly be as accurate or enlightened as yours Hessian, as only you, BBC and PT really know the meanings behind the scriptures).

It's been a little less than a week since my kids have been exposed to the Harry Potter movie and they've yet to..

* practice witchcraft
* be a soothsayer or a sorcerer
* interpret omens
* conjure spells
* look into a career as a medium or a spiritist
* call up the dead

Now this isn't to say this movie hasn't planted "an evil seed" in which they will someday lose all common sense and move to Salem to become a Witch or Wizard and cast spells and curses upon the good Christians such as yourself.  Only time and the devil will tell.

I suppose I should be a much more responsible Christian parent.  I think I shall go home, tell my kids there is no Santa Claus and even though he isn't real he is evil (after all he is pure fantasy and my children may conjure up spells in their wicked little minds to fly up the chimney).  No more Barney because he's obviously magically transformed from a mere inanimate stuffed animal to a great big singing dancing Alive thing.  That would fall under "calling up the dead".  Mr. Rogers has got to go, he talks to puppets who live in a magical "Land of Make Believe" (besides, the puppet who lived in the carousel was obviously a drunkard, with that big red nose it is obvious).  Nope, nothing but reality and the Bible for my kids now.  I realize now G-d would never condone children having an imagination.  Too wicked.  I am fortunate to have Hessian and BBC around to enlighten me in the error of my ways.  When I go home tonight and purge my home of everything except for the Bible, can I maybe join your club and be promoted from someone who merely "claims to be Christian" to full fledged real life Christian?  That actuallly "gets it"?  I too want my license to judge and preach to those other misguided folks who merely "claim to be Christian".  I want to quote scripture so I look brilliantly enlightened.  I don't really care to sit down and think about the meaning of it in context with the Bible as a whole.  Heck no, if I did that, I'd have to accept that it isn't very Christianlike to pontificate.  After all, I want to be the judge of who is Christian who isn't.  Please please please?  Can I? Can I? Can I?

And I am not yelling in this post, just sighing heavily.  It's just so unchristian to be throwing crap out insinuating that if you are a "real Christian" you wouldn't allow your child to see Harry Potter.  Maybe I'm not a "real Christian".  If feeding fear into my kids about Harry Potter and his "Satanic Message" makes me not a good Christian then so be it.  I'm not going to fill my kids head full of garbage about Satan, demons, and burning in Hell.  I choose to love them, let their imaginations flow, and let them be a child.  I see so many poor little kids out there who's "real Christian" parent's are screaming at their kids whenever they see anything Harry Potter, mention anything Harry Potter etc... I'm not making this up to get across my point.  I can't begin to tell you how many times I've been in Wal Mart and had parents smacking their kids hands and yelling at them about how evil Harry Potter is and it's Devil worship.  What kid needs that crap?  You going to tell me the kid is going to grow up healthy and happy with a "Church Lady" mother running around screaming "Satans here, Satans there, Satan Satan everywhere!"  It's funny to watch as an outsider, but you gotta really feel bad for the kid who is being raised to obey and worship G-d through fear.  I teach my kids that G-d loves them and if they remember that nothing evil can ever touch them.  I trust in G-d and I trust in my parenting skills enough not to have to put blinders on my kids or scare the daylights out of them with the "fire and brimstone" concept of Christianity.

I must wrap this up, gotta go pull my kids snicker bars out of the toilet bowl.  It made such a lovely candy dish too.  I was hoping Martha Stewart was going to feature my toilet candy idea in next month's issue of "Living".  The "is it a Snicker or is it a turd?" game makes for great family fun over the holidays.  I was counting on this to make me millions from the infomercial circuit!  Not a chance now.  Thanks Hessian!

 

[vraiblonde]

Hey, I have another idea!  Let's make a law that says you can't discriminate against movies, no matter how repugnant you find them!  Harry Potter should really have protection under the law so as not to be defamed by the closed-minded masses.  Next thing you know he'll have a tough time getting a table in a restaurant...

I know!  Let's make a law that says you can't condemn something that you haven't tried!  Where can I get some heroin and a classmate to kill?  As closed-minded as I am, I've never tried either of those things so couldn't possibly have an opinion as to whether they're bad or not.  Right?

I'm feeling left out because apparently Hessian is emailing andwhat, Jimmy and Daniel privately that he wants to kill gay people.  I haven't seen anything like that from him in these forums so it must be a private communication.  Or maybe telepathy - that Harry Potter thing again.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

CHRISTY,

FOR THE LAST TIME.  NO ONE IS JUDGING YOU ESPECIALLY ME! I HAVE MY BELIEFS AND YOU HAVE YOURS.  IF YOU HAVE DETERMINED THAT YOU WANT YOUR KIDS OR YOURSELF TO SEE THE MOVIE THAT IS FINE.  DON'T GET MAD AT ME IF GOD SAID OTHERWISE.  IF YOU FEEL THAT I HAVE JUDGED YOU THEN MAYBE YOU NEED TO REEVALUATE YOUR POSITION AND ASK GOD WHY HE SAID IN HIS WORD THOSE THINGS.