Harry Potter...

andwhat

Member
BBC, give up on the preaching already will you.  Simply say that you don't want to see the movie, you think its not in your interests to do so and stop trying to tell people that they are wrong for trying or wanting to see it. Here's a little hint, the bible wasn't written by god, the bible was written by man. God may have inspired the writers to write it down, but then once that happened it was changed. Its been changed over the eyars so many times that even religious leaders are unsure of exactly what its supposed to say. you say that you aren't judging chrsity but then you go and say things like ask God why he says this and you don't believe him. Seems to me like you're on another holier than thou kick.
Blondie, the hessien killing gays thing was on one of the political forums whihc he started, entitled "does anyone know the status of that fag bill up in annapolis?" He then went on to say that the worked with two lesbians and he wanted to kill them right then and there and bury them in the ground so thats where that one came from.
You know what, if you want to protest the movies go ahead and protest them, you can disagree all you want about the movies, but don't come onto a forum that is supposed to be about reviewing the movie if you are goign to make a morality call on something you haven't seen. If you think the movie is wrong say i think this movie si wrong b/c I saw it and blah blah blah blah blah.  Don't come on and say this movie is dangerous and evil and noone should ever see it and you're going to hell if you do.
As for heroin and murder, point taken, somethings you should probably not experience but at least you can justify why not. Hessien has never justified not reading the books or seeing the movie for himself and saying it si evil b/c.... He just said its evil and wrong and dangerous. Reading a book is not the same as killing someone, lets put it in some perspective here. You read a book, you like it, you don't, you buy into it, you don't its whatever. you kill someone, thats a bit different. so we should judge things before we know about them and we should do away with anythign that might be controversial, then we're right back to the nazi's burning books and schools outlawing the wizard of oz and shakespeare.
Finally, christy, thank you and great job. And I heard Martha Stewart was going to do a wreath out of different candybars that had been floating in toilets from all over the world in her next magazine. Did I mention that Martha stewart is the antichrist? Thats another forum though.
 

Jimmyrich

Member
Vrai,

YES! I finally agree with you!  Let's make a law protecting any artform even if we find it repulsive!  And, yes, let's put an end to all the BullSh!t laws that regulate drugs in our society!  I'm finally agreeing with you!
Funny that you meant it sarcastically, but that's exactly along the lines of what I'm thinking.  I DO believe that a movie that someone finds morally reprehesible shouldn't be banned.  I believe that our pitiful "War on Drugs" isn't working and when you look at societies that are more open, their drug problems are FAR lower than ours.  Thanks for bringing those points up, by the way...
BBC, you cannot get mad at andwhat for quoting scripture to you. It's a book. It's not YOU'RE book and you are no more entitled to it or the 'secrets' it holds than anyone else. If you're gonna spout off some verse at the end of everyone of your posts then be prepared to have some of that thrown back at you. You obviously don't want to argue outside the confines of Biblical Text. SO be it. But be prepared for different interpretations to arise.
Christy, great points.  Don't let fundamentalists tell you how to be a Christian. As BBC says actually, this is between you and God, right?  So pick that snickers out of the toilet and snack away! Just make sure, it IS a snickers...cause this one time...well anyway....
Just saw andwhat's post and it pretty much summed up what I'm thinking. The labeling of this movie as "Dangerous" is what we are questioning; not the decision NOT to go see it.  I don't want to see Legally Blonde. I think it looks dumb and like something I won't enjoy. There. There's my reason. So that's fine if you dont' see the Harry Potter movies. I simply don't understand the religious justification for not seeing them though.  I mean, this literal interpretation of the BIble being used to suggest that God himself has decreed that this type of subject matter is an "abomination"?  Christ, the Bible USED to contain references to reincarnation until they were removed by the church due to pressure from Constantine. So, really, Man has CLEARLY shaped what IS and ISN'T in the Bible.  If you were to live your live TRULY WORD FOR WORD EVERY SINGLE WORD From the Bible that you read, you'd never be able to exist in society.  Therefore, see the movie or don't see the movie. But dont' claim that it's GOD who told you not to see it. Admit to making the decision for yourself.
 

foxylady

Member
WOW!! You all have been having a busy day!  As for me, I was running around my house cleaning up all the EVIL stuff that my kids have collected over the years.  Anyone want to join me for a giant bon fire tonight to burn all the evil stuff?  Most of the books have to go.  Most of the toys have to go.  OH!  I forgot! Remember to bring your TV sets and stereos and computers as well.  All the Devils tools you know.  Maybe afterwards we can all go join Hessien and be "real christians."
 
Christly -- you'll have to scurry home and clean up all the kid stuff fast.  I know you don't want to be left out.  

The Harry Potter books have a deeper meaning than the "magical" surface of the story.  If you read any of the books you would realize that Harry is just a little boy who was orphaned at a young age and placed in the abusive home of his aunt and uncle.  It shows the courage and resilience that a young child needs to overcome great barriers in their life and succeed in this world against all odds.  Children have wonderful imaginations ... yes..... but they're not stupid.  They know that the magic in the books and the movie are just that ... imaginary.  Everyone needs something to cope with lifes great pitfalls at times.  

Some people turn to drugs or alcohol.  Some are abusive.  Can't we, as educated adults, see that these books are a wonderful escape for our children and quit trying to make everything into the struggle between good and evil?

Goodness is all around us every day if we take the time to look.  Evil is there if you look for it as well, but why make more than there already is?

Hessien - I agree with Jimmy, et al.  You need to grow up and get a life man!

(Edited by foxylady at 1:41 pm on Nov. 27, 2001)
 
B

BigBrothaCon

Guest
Foxy,

You said "Goodness is all around us every day if we take the time to look.  Evil is there if you look for it as well, but why make more than there already is? "

who is making more evil than there already is?  Evil is the same today as it was yesterday.  Some people just involve themselves in more types of evil.  God already made everything.  How can man make or find new evil?
 

Jimmyrich

Member
True Good and Evil--even though I see them as abstract terms--let's say they DO exist already due to God.  Man can still "find" them where they are not. Man is flawed and, thus, is perfectly capable of misinterpreting something as Evil when, in fact, it is not. That's all I think Foxy was getting at.  "Making more evil" might as well be the case when you've got people running around touting this that and the otherthing as "EVIL EVIL EVIL" when, in truth, many don't even know what it is they are condemning. So God creating Good and Evil. That's fine.  But don't think for a minute that man cannot label whatever he wants "evil" or "good" as well.
 
B

BigBrothaCon

Guest
Oh and andwhat,

I don't want to see the movie because I don't want to subject myself to witchcraft by any means regardless if you or anyone else feels otherwise.  I have accepted your reasons for watching it, so accept mine for not watching it.

There are too many people getting offended by what the Bible says on here.  If you feel your point of view is not judged by what the Bible says, then why do jump at me for what it says?  If you don't feel bad about your actions then don't get mad at me for disagreeing with your point of view.  We can discuss things as adults without all the name calling and downgrades.  If I have said anything to downgrade anyone then I apologize for that, but if the Word of God that I believe in offends those who say they do not believe in the Word of God then maybe you really believe in the Word of God unless why be offended?
 
B

BigBrothaCon

Guest
Jimmy

You are putting God and man at the same level when you say ". So God creating Good and Evil. That's fine.  But don't think for a minute that man cannot label whatever he wants "evil" or "good" as well"

I don't place man at any level with God.  
 

andwhat

Member
BBC, Jimmy wasn't trying to place man and God on the smae level. instead he was saying that while God may have created good and evil, man mislabels things good and evil and that is due to the fallibility of man. He's saying that with real evil in the world, i.e. the true evil as created by God if you like, then we can do without people like hessien running around like chicken little calling everything he doesn't like evil. I'm sure the Bible and God never intended to condemn Harry Potter or his movie, there are much bigger things to worry about in this world.
Now then, if you don't want to see the movie b/c it goes against what you believe in, thats fine, thats great you said it, you said why no problems what so ever. But don't tell use these forums as a chance to preach to others and condemn them as others have done and say that christianity is the onyl way for everyone, which I know you haven't done, but others have so this is to them.
The word of God is what you believe in, or at least your interpratation  of it as I'm sure that you won't claim that yours is the only wasy to interpret the bible though you believe it is the right way at least for you. But you also realize that it is not for everyone so you simply say its for me thats why I'm not seeing the movie. Our problem has always been with people like hessien who make moral judgements for all people and claim that he knows better than everyone else and we're all going to burn in hell. thats where the problem lies.
 

John

Member
Andwhat,

I'm curious about one further thing you've posted...
Our problem has always been with people like hessien who make moral judgements for all people and claim that he knows better than everyone else and we're all going to burn in hell. thats where the problem lies.

Do you worry that Hessian is in charge and condemning you to hell?
If not...Then if he feels his way is right and all others wrong what are you worried over. It's only his opinion...Lighten up.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
That's just great!  First TT controls our mouse fingers, now Hessian gets to decide who goes to heaven! I had no idea I was in the company of such powerful people...
 

Christy

b*tch rocket
BBC, I don't see where the quotes you've posted on here out of the Bible are very relevent in demonizing Harry Potter.  There's a lot of scripture that discusses murder, lying, cheating, stealing, adultery etc.. yet I'm sure you've seen many movies with these acts in them.  Did G-d tell you not to go see these movies because of that content?  If not, "THEN MAYBE YOU NEED TO REEVALUATE YOUR POSITION AND ASK GOD WHY HE SAID IN HIS WORD THOSE THINGS".  

I believe what G-d meant in all of those quotes, is that when you believe in your soul Witchcraft and Sorcery is the answer and you follow that path to enlightenment, then you have turned your back to him and his truth.  To bury your head in the sand and be so fearful that even the slightest exposure to "evil" will turn your heart, you're not really solid in your faith.  

I have faith in my own beliefs and relationship with G-d that whatever evil myself or my children are exposed to we can ward it off.   I think going into a spiritual panic over Harry Potter trivializes and belittles the true power of G-d.  
 

andwhat

Member
John, no I'm not worried that Hessien gets to decide who is and is not going to hell. If I do go to hell b/c Hessien says so then I'm sure I'll have a good time down there with people like Gandhi, John F. Kennedy, Ernest Hemingway and the like. I was using that quote as saying that the reason this whole strain of the forum started is b/c while we were simplye trying to judge the movie simply on whetehr it was a good movie or not, hessien busts out the whole you all are going to hell for watching the movie and anyoen who sees it is wrong and going to rot for eternity and blah blah blah. This whole strain has been about saying that one) you shouldn't come into a review forum to provide your moral judgemnent about all those people on the forum, especially if you don't really ahve knowledge about what the forum is like and two) don't preach to people when all they are trying to do is talk about a kids book and movie and tell others if they should see it or not.
As for lightening, we probably could all use some of that, but I think that if you're going to tell me too, then you should at least be fair and tell the one who started all of this by saying that all little kids are going to turn into satanist b/c they see this movie to lighten up. I'm just responding to him. So again, in my best little kid voice "he started it." I'm just trying to stand up for all the little kids out there and all of us big kids who want to see the movie and not being told we're going to be burned in hell for it. True it doesn't really matter what hessien says and no he doesn't get to decide who goes to hell and heaven (not that I would mind that much b/c if he does get to decide I'd rather go to hell b/c it seems like the people would be alot more fun), but he put his opinion out there, so I thought it only fair if i defend the rest of us who don't feel that way.
Christy, again great post.
Blonde, apparently TT andHessien can control such things. they must be withces and we should burn them b/c they must have seen the movie and have obviouslly now turned to satanism.
 

daniel

Member
Wow, Christy, I couldn't agree with you more in your last few posts. Jimmy you and andwhat also have made some great points. and belive me if heaven is only for the true chrsitians like Hessian then it is clearly not for me and, andwhat i am looking forward to sitting and talking and playing with you in "hell", jimmy you will be there too i am sure, christy maybe you as well.

BBC you have been using the Word of God which you take directly from the bible. There are many many versions of Christianity that use the bible as thier word of God and they all have different interpretations. So BBC, why do you quote the Bible to condem harry potter and say it is not your words but the word of God. Maybe you should say, i don't want to see it because i believe that the word of God AS I INTERPRETE IT, tells me not to." because when you spout off these quotes you are giving us the word of god as written by man and interpreted by a man. Now you have been using direct quotes and take them literaly word for word, so i guess you are not interpreting. I would address that but the infamous letter to Dr. Laura takes care of that and has yet to be addressed.
 

Hessian

Well-Known Member
From now on, if someone would like to quote me, please take it right from my postings and quit coming up with distortions? Thanks, Hessian.

Now, with that said:
1) I am not reading the book or seeing the movie.
Why? Because they violate God's instructions to man (as cited accurately by BBC)
2) I don't want my child or my school kids to get caught up in the fad.
Why? Because of reasons I have previously stated that 3 posters apparently ignored.
3) I wouldn't mind discussing the issue from a biblical stand point but I think I'd be wasting my time.
Why? Because several posters believe the Bible as distorted and mistranslated etc. They despise churches for any number of reasons so even citing chapter and verse to them has no affect at all (BBC has tried that several times and been dismissed immediately). Their hostility is thinly veiled.

I read last night (because of an assignment I was given)of two prominent cases where the ACLU successfully intimidated school districts into allowing pentagrams, pagan symbols etc to be exempt from dress code violations at school. The bitter hissing and seething by the wicca fans was very revealing. So with HP becoming the "Star Wars" of this generation,  we can expect a whole lot of images, spells, curses, conjuring etc because its...."fun."
And by the way...I never said it sends you to Hell. That was determined the first day you sinned (For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is Eternal life) oops, sorry-I forgot-Scripture is distorted and irrelevant right?

Vrai...regarding that post I have been cited about many times: I opened pandora's box (pardon the pun) when I opened the question on the Gay bill months ago. I was disgusted by behavior at a field school and flippantly said I wouldn't mind burying them for future archaeologists to ponder.
Now: How many of you have scream profanities at the slow driver that doesn't use his blinker? "G-d %&#@ you!"...guess what: you just urged something even more violent! So, get off your PC horse and move on. Just like you didn't act on that slow driver...neither did I.
Back to the "Fun" movie:
If you want, I'll post a few sites that have some very direct things to say about HP and I'll avoid those that are frantic and shrill Ok? (I've seen a mix of both)

Oh, by the way, I didn't mean to fire-up Christy like  that.
but my illustration still stands: Try avoiding making a joke about it and prove me wrong:

You don't want you kids experimenting with Drugs: Why?
Because it could lead to addictions and other serious problems right? Or is a little bit of drugs OK?
Is a little bit of Harry Potter OK? hmmmmm.
Veritas.


(Edited by Hessian at 8:05 pm on Nov. 27, 2001)
 

Jimmyrich

Member
I'm actually looking forward to these websites. Maybe they can offer a more sound and supported argument for this viewpiont then we've gotten here thus far....And Hessain? Don't try and back down from your hate-filled statement now that everyone has called you on it.  You were advocating hatred and violence on two people who had done nothing PERSONALLY do you. You were merely offended by their implied actions.  And yelling f*ck You! to someone who's cutting you off(I dont' think G*d Damn you is all that potent) is in the same league. For one, their actions have DIRECTLY affected you specifically and you are in the heat of emotion at the time you say it. This bury in the ground and leave for archaeologist to dig up was said well AFTER the fact.  So don't try and pawn it off as something anyone would say. You were hateful when you said it, you are hateful now, and the fact that someone that would flippantly spout off something like that is teaching children makes me, frankly, sick.  And you think a GAY teacher is a danger to a classroom....
 

andwhat

Member
Hessien, I feel that I can personally spoeak for myself, Daniel and jimmy in saying that the three of us do not hate churches. In fatc none of us hate religion or those that personally believe in a religion different from our own. what we do hate, and yes I will use this word even if it is a sin, is people like you that try and arbitrarily decide what is evil and wrong with a book or movie without haveing experience with it and condemn those that fell differently than you.
Citing chapter and verse is not going to persuade any of us to come over to your "dark side" (since you used it to describe us , I felt it only fair to use it to describe you) especially since the very bible which you are using has been interpreted countless different ways and  there are multiple versions out there which each say different things and the very authority for interpreting the bible (namely the Pope) has said that the bible is up to individual interpretation. Do not do a disservice to the name of the bible by trying to use it so justify your hate filled attitudes towards childrens literature and homosexuals. You soil the very thing which you claim to hold sacred.
 

daniel

Member
Thank you andwhat, you pretty much covered the bible issue for me. I think it was written by man, has been translated by man numerous times into different versions and is now interpreted differently by protestants, catholics, baptists etc etc. I personnaly do not hate any of these churches or interpretations of the bible, I may disagree with them but i do not think they are wrong just different. Then of course you have those that take everything in the bible literally and i disagree with them as well. and if i were say.........in a forum or discussion of some kind, where i was debating certain verses of the bible that can be viewed as condeming people when taken literally, i would aks thema  few questions. some of the things i would ask would be an answer to teh letter to dr. laura, or if teh bible is to be taken literally how do you belive in two completely different creation stories? or is how do you explain the difference in how long the bible says humans have been around and scientific prooven FACT that shows we have been around much longer?  so thanks hessian for once again that assessment of myself, jimmy and andwhat (i assume you were referring to us as the church haters). I question your interpretations of the bible when you even interpret our posts incorrectly.

Jimmy thanks to you as well for covering the gay bashing vs yelling at a driver issue. i am sure Hessian will come back and say that you said "all bad drivers are bad and deserve to be yelled at so its ok" whenin fact you didn't say that. BBC is also great at that. I have never seen so many quotes taken out of text and twisted to mean something terribly different from what they really meant. BBC you should be a reporter, the media is loves doing that, you would fit right in.
 

valentino

Member
As much as I hate to keep getting into these conversations, I must say one quick thing.  Hessian, we are all sinners if we believe that something we do is actually called a sin.  You are sinner because you judge people too much, I am sinner because I do the same, you are a sinner because you wished, or at least thought about bringing death to someone, I am sinner because I have done the same.  Maybe you and I just need to step back and look at the things we are doing to combat what we think is wrong.  It is very hard, but I am trying.  What do two sins make? Certainly not a saint.
 
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