Well said, Valentino!! I'm curious to see Hessian's response...oh and you two aren't alone in attempts to change the way you deal with that you find contrary to your beliefs...we can ALL learn to be a bit more tolerant of others...I think this is a serious good that such forums can do for all of us...
Harry Potter...
- Thread starter Hessian
- Start date
Hessian
Well-Known Member
"Hessian, we are all sinners if we believe that something we do is actually called a sin."
Valentino...your years in the Christian school/church are coming back to you now...But, its NOT up to what we believe that determines sin...Its up to what God has labelled sin.
AND you're absolutely correct: "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God."
The world has started to avoid certain words: "Sin" "Liar" and "evil" is among them (remember when the press went berserk when Reagan called the USSR the "Evil Empire?"
We we'ren't even allowed to call Clinton a "liar"...no, it was dismissed in legal jabberwocky.
Now we get to "Sin"...we don't get to make up what is sin--that was determined in the OT & NT. So, when a movie has a frollicking "good" time in the spirit world of conjuring, spell casting, potions, curses, communication with the dead.--My God said stay away from those things (see BBC's post a while back)---its SIN.
Those who dismiss it and say its innocent fun, well...they do not have the Holy Spirit reminding them of what is right & wrong...rather they have a fuzzy vague notion of blurred gray zones and a perspective of the "Biggies" as being wrong (murder, rape, stealing...and a few more)
Are they lost? Yes.
Is there hope? Yes...but not from their works-they have to recognize their separation from God-nobody can do it for them.
Can Christians urge people to avoid sin? Sure...I tried and got hammered for it (I was even called Bin laden and informed I taught in a Hitler school yesterday!)
We actually expect that...Christ said that we would be hated by the world. Will I stop warning people? No.
Will I listen to and "tolerate" opinions/positions different from mine? Of course! Paul did when he was trying to convince the Greeks near Athens. But I will not tolerate distortions of my faith or be forced to accept man's law over God's law....the Martyrs of the Reformation paid dearly for that principle.
Veritas.
Valentino...your years in the Christian school/church are coming back to you now...But, its NOT up to what we believe that determines sin...Its up to what God has labelled sin.
AND you're absolutely correct: "All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God."
The world has started to avoid certain words: "Sin" "Liar" and "evil" is among them (remember when the press went berserk when Reagan called the USSR the "Evil Empire?"
We we'ren't even allowed to call Clinton a "liar"...no, it was dismissed in legal jabberwocky.Now we get to "Sin"...we don't get to make up what is sin--that was determined in the OT & NT. So, when a movie has a frollicking "good" time in the spirit world of conjuring, spell casting, potions, curses, communication with the dead.--My God said stay away from those things (see BBC's post a while back)---its SIN.
Those who dismiss it and say its innocent fun, well...they do not have the Holy Spirit reminding them of what is right & wrong...rather they have a fuzzy vague notion of blurred gray zones and a perspective of the "Biggies" as being wrong (murder, rape, stealing...and a few more)
Are they lost? Yes.
Is there hope? Yes...but not from their works-they have to recognize their separation from God-nobody can do it for them.
Can Christians urge people to avoid sin? Sure...I tried and got hammered for it (I was even called Bin laden and informed I taught in a Hitler school yesterday!)
We actually expect that...Christ said that we would be hated by the world. Will I stop warning people? No.
Will I listen to and "tolerate" opinions/positions different from mine? Of course! Paul did when he was trying to convince the Greeks near Athens. But I will not tolerate distortions of my faith or be forced to accept man's law over God's law....the Martyrs of the Reformation paid dearly for that principle.
Veritas.
Hessian
I am glad that we agree sort of, but my point was that it seems wrong to me to urge someone not to sin, by telling them you wish to sin. Just because it is different things each of you may be doing, does not make you right and them wrong or vice versa. Oh well though, you all will fight your points forever, and that is what this forum is for, so have fun, and best of luck to you all.
I am glad that we agree sort of, but my point was that it seems wrong to me to urge someone not to sin, by telling them you wish to sin. Just because it is different things each of you may be doing, does not make you right and them wrong or vice versa. Oh well though, you all will fight your points forever, and that is what this forum is for, so have fun, and best of luck to you all.
Hessian
Well-Known Member
Ok...thought I might take some time and survey what's out there on our Dark friend Harry.
Take a look at these sites...they have a little range in them and I won't endorse one above the other...its just a broad survey of Christians opposed to HP.
http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry9-99.html
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm
http://pacific.telebyte.com/~jimbaum/harry.htm
http://www.albertweb.com/news/editorials/ed-isharrypotterevil.htm
Yes, I know some will dismiss these folks as psycho rightist fanatic fundamentalist etc...but, hey, They DO believe in something.
Veritas.
Take a look at these sites...they have a little range in them and I won't endorse one above the other...its just a broad survey of Christians opposed to HP.
http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry9-99.html
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm
http://pacific.telebyte.com/~jimbaum/harry.htm
http://www.albertweb.com/news/editorials/ed-isharrypotterevil.htm
Yes, I know some will dismiss these folks as psycho rightist fanatic fundamentalist etc...but, hey, They DO believe in something.
Veritas.
Hessian--
You're right! These sites were written by psycho, rightists, fanatic fundamentalists. Good call!
"Check out the "S" on his head"??? THAT is used as evidence that this is CLEARLY vieled satanism? Good lord, that's ridiculous. I mean, c'mon. You can argue that seeing/reading things like this book might not totally mesh with Christian doctrine but do you honestly believe that either (a) J.K. Rowling is a Satanist at heart and is trying to turn kids on to the devil or (b) Satan himself had anything to do with inspiring/writing this book? These websites you posted are all from people and sources that are just as off about this as you are and which use your same reasoning. Show me an objective viewpoint or source that condemns Harry Potter in this way. This would be like my supporting my arguement by going to a Harry Potter fanclub site and quoting 8 year old Ashley Montaus who calls the books "super-cool!" and "better than Pokemon!" I had hoped that your "examples" of Dark Harry Potter would be better than that...but oh well...At least you've been consistant...
You're right! These sites were written by psycho, rightists, fanatic fundamentalists. Good call!
"Check out the "S" on his head"??? THAT is used as evidence that this is CLEARLY vieled satanism? Good lord, that's ridiculous. I mean, c'mon. You can argue that seeing/reading things like this book might not totally mesh with Christian doctrine but do you honestly believe that either (a) J.K. Rowling is a Satanist at heart and is trying to turn kids on to the devil or (b) Satan himself had anything to do with inspiring/writing this book? These websites you posted are all from people and sources that are just as off about this as you are and which use your same reasoning. Show me an objective viewpoint or source that condemns Harry Potter in this way. This would be like my supporting my arguement by going to a Harry Potter fanclub site and quoting 8 year old Ashley Montaus who calls the books "super-cool!" and "better than Pokemon!" I had hoped that your "examples" of Dark Harry Potter would be better than that...but oh well...At least you've been consistant...
I find it funny that people would condemn something that they know nothing about. True witchcraft does not call upon demons or the dead. They do not even believe there is a satan, let alone worship him. I really think that knowledge is the key here, take the time to learn a little more about what you are condeming before you do so. It would be the same for me to say that one christian person I know did something I do not like, so therefore, I hate all christians. That is not true of course, but it could be if I did not take the time to get to know others for who they were, not just what I thought they believed. It amazes me that all of those sites you posted talk about god saying that witchcraft and the like should not even be discussed. Why not? I really do not feel that god should have anything against a religion that only wishes good for others, nature, and all living things. There are plenty of groups out there that practice things that I would not condone, but I am not talking about them, I am just supporting the true wiccans. Not as bad as people think, now that I know more and have taken the time to learn instead of judge.
So peace, love and all that sh*t
to you all.
So peace, love and all that sh*t
to you all.
Hessian
Well-Known Member
Valentino,...what we have is the issue of deception. I have heard several people relate how they began dabbling in "good" spells, "white magic" and would never have "worshipped Satan"-but just like many drugs, a little was not enough and they kept digging themselves deeper into it. Go ahead, peal off a couple layers: What will you find underneath? These Wicca oddballs are deluded. if you are worshipping nature, you've started worshipping the creation instead of the creator,...and the deception begins. There is a spirit world out there, it is not friendly, "spirit guides" and little voices--ARE NOT THE WAY GOD REVEALS HIMSELF. How can I be so sure? None of those "little voices" are saying "read the Bible, hide it in your heart, attend church, live moral and upright lives."
instead they are saying "Live for yourself, you are the master of your universe, only you know what is true, all of nature is good, blah blah, blah.
Hey Wicca folks: 1)nature is fallen 2)You are decieved and misled as to what is true...and no, you are not a god Shirley Maclane, 3) Dabbling in the spirit world begins a downward spiral.
Veritas.
instead they are saying "Live for yourself, you are the master of your universe, only you know what is true, all of nature is good, blah blah, blah.
Hey Wicca folks: 1)nature is fallen 2)You are decieved and misled as to what is true...and no, you are not a god Shirley Maclane, 3) Dabbling in the spirit world begins a downward spiral.
Veritas.
Ahhhh! That's more like it! The ignorant side of Hessain returns!
You continue to destroy your credibility with every condemnation of any person (or entire group of people) that think differently from you. Now, it's the Wiccans? Jesus Christ, man you just won't open your eyes will you? Wiccan "oddballs" as you so tellingly call them, are merely searching for answers just like anyone else. And while I personally see no truth in their assessment of the world around us, I think yours is just as bunk as well. Hell, mine is probably bunk too. But at least I'm open enough to admit that. All this talk of "deception" and "paths leading to the dark side"; you're such a fear-mongering-chicken little, Hessian. All these Wiccans you "know of" that have turned to Satanists....Wiccans don't even belive in Satan! So what are you talking about?? Again, you are condeming things that you know little to nothing of.
And the spirit guides and voices NOT being the way God reaveals himself? How about a burning bush? Or a dove? Or angles? Or Revealing dreams? See, all that is as supernatural and implausable sounding as talking to a tree or getting in touch with mother earth. Funny how one guy sits in front of a bush, one in front of a tree and the one guy looks at the other guy and goes: "weirdo".
People fear what they do not understand. YOU, Hessian, fear that which you do not understand. Which I feel, in your case, amounts to just about everything in this world apart from the beliefs with which you are comfortable.
You seem to be suffering from WizardofOzaphobia; in as much as you are SO fearful that someone will "pay attention to the man behind the curtain". You don't want people to figure things out for themselves. You don't want someone to come to a conclusion that threatens the veracity of your own beliefs. You don't want people to know that "Hessian" has only as much of a clue about what's really going on in the world as everyone else does. You are a frightened man. You are frightened that your ways and beliefs are falling by the wayside. And not because you're frightened that the "world has lost its way". If your vision of God is correct, you'll be sitting right at his side when the "S" hits the fan. So why be so concerned? Why feel the need to press everyone to join in your beliefs?
Simple. It's cult mentality. And it's what keeps a LOT of those fundamentalist groups going strong. Fear, deception, exaggeration, judgement, condemnation, hatred; these aren't the tools of the Devil. These are the very things YOU have brought to this table each and every time you post something here supporting your beliefts or belittling others. So keep it up, keep proving my points for me over and over again. Prove yourself continually to be ignorant of that which you speak and hopefully, some people here will be enticed to move AWAY from your type of one-sided thinking and towards a more open mind...
You continue to destroy your credibility with every condemnation of any person (or entire group of people) that think differently from you. Now, it's the Wiccans? Jesus Christ, man you just won't open your eyes will you? Wiccan "oddballs" as you so tellingly call them, are merely searching for answers just like anyone else. And while I personally see no truth in their assessment of the world around us, I think yours is just as bunk as well. Hell, mine is probably bunk too. But at least I'm open enough to admit that. All this talk of "deception" and "paths leading to the dark side"; you're such a fear-mongering-chicken little, Hessian. All these Wiccans you "know of" that have turned to Satanists....Wiccans don't even belive in Satan! So what are you talking about?? Again, you are condeming things that you know little to nothing of.
And the spirit guides and voices NOT being the way God reaveals himself? How about a burning bush? Or a dove? Or angles? Or Revealing dreams? See, all that is as supernatural and implausable sounding as talking to a tree or getting in touch with mother earth. Funny how one guy sits in front of a bush, one in front of a tree and the one guy looks at the other guy and goes: "weirdo".
People fear what they do not understand. YOU, Hessian, fear that which you do not understand. Which I feel, in your case, amounts to just about everything in this world apart from the beliefs with which you are comfortable.
You seem to be suffering from WizardofOzaphobia; in as much as you are SO fearful that someone will "pay attention to the man behind the curtain". You don't want people to figure things out for themselves. You don't want someone to come to a conclusion that threatens the veracity of your own beliefs. You don't want people to know that "Hessian" has only as much of a clue about what's really going on in the world as everyone else does. You are a frightened man. You are frightened that your ways and beliefs are falling by the wayside. And not because you're frightened that the "world has lost its way". If your vision of God is correct, you'll be sitting right at his side when the "S" hits the fan. So why be so concerned? Why feel the need to press everyone to join in your beliefs?
Simple. It's cult mentality. And it's what keeps a LOT of those fundamentalist groups going strong. Fear, deception, exaggeration, judgement, condemnation, hatred; these aren't the tools of the Devil. These are the very things YOU have brought to this table each and every time you post something here supporting your beliefts or belittling others. So keep it up, keep proving my points for me over and over again. Prove yourself continually to be ignorant of that which you speak and hopefully, some people here will be enticed to move AWAY from your type of one-sided thinking and towards a more open mind...
Hessian
Well-Known Member
Front Page Washington Post 12/14
"Va. Scientist was Killed With Sword"
3 Suspects Interested in Occult and Witchcraft, friends say.
The story relates the tale of woe for three wiccans who butchered a man in his house and mutilated his body. ages of the culprits? Teens (18 & 19) They were in a coven and guess what..
PAGE A 11 "She said the coven was peaceful."
Page A11 "They said she excelled in art class and often read fantasy novels."
They shirked responsibilities, were unemployed, mutilated themselves, drank blood, wore black etc etc etc but the most important thing...
"They were peaceful"
What utter garbage! Next we'll hear they worshipped nature and listen for mother Earth to speak to them.
Why can't people put 2 + 2 together??????????
Dabbling in the occult and having "fun" with the dark side and worshipping nature is all related here-and this is the result...one butchered citizen. "Fantasy and Fantasy world" popped up immediately in the article.
Come on parents...use a little common sense and keep your kids away from occult related works like Harry Potter.There are plenty of other great classics to get them interested in.
Veritas.
(Edited by Hessian at 8:16 pm on Dec. 17, 2001)
"Va. Scientist was Killed With Sword"
3 Suspects Interested in Occult and Witchcraft, friends say.
The story relates the tale of woe for three wiccans who butchered a man in his house and mutilated his body. ages of the culprits? Teens (18 & 19) They were in a coven and guess what..
PAGE A 11 "She said the coven was peaceful."
Page A11 "They said she excelled in art class and often read fantasy novels."
They shirked responsibilities, were unemployed, mutilated themselves, drank blood, wore black etc etc etc but the most important thing...
"They were peaceful"
What utter garbage! Next we'll hear they worshipped nature and listen for mother Earth to speak to them.
Why can't people put 2 + 2 together??????????
Dabbling in the occult and having "fun" with the dark side and worshipping nature is all related here-and this is the result...one butchered citizen. "Fantasy and Fantasy world" popped up immediately in the article.
Come on parents...use a little common sense and keep your kids away from occult related works like Harry Potter.There are plenty of other great classics to get them interested in.
Veritas.
(Edited by Hessian at 8:16 pm on Dec. 17, 2001)
PmoneyandTT
New Member
Hessian - Fear equals a lack of faith.
And your far from that. The whole world will be deceived.
And your far from that. The whole world will be deceived.
Hessian,
I think you are giving black magic and Harry Potter too much credit. Spells and rituals are all harmless. If true wiccans do not belive in Satan and are peaceful then these people were not "true"wiccans. They were disturbed individuals and used witchcraft much like some people use their religion to condem/murder others. Both are weak in their beliefs and don't truely understand what they are trying to understand.
I think you are giving black magic and Harry Potter too much credit. Spells and rituals are all harmless. If true wiccans do not belive in Satan and are peaceful then these people were not "true"wiccans. They were disturbed individuals and used witchcraft much like some people use their religion to condem/murder others. Both are weak in their beliefs and don't truely understand what they are trying to understand.
Exactly, Daniel...
And boy Hessian, I was wondering when you were gonna catch wind of that "sword-slaying" article. If you were to know more about those children other than the fact that they belonged to a "coven" (no where does it SPECIFICALLY address the Wiccan Faith; it merely touts an interest in Witchcraft) then you might be able to find the true reason behind their deviance. Funny how the description of these kids fits so perfectly the description of the kids in Columbine with the black coats, long hair, outsider mentality and interest in the fantasty world. This type of response to poor parenting, teasing, being ostracized by peers, even beaten up etc... is very common in adolescents and often results in their feeling the need to "escape" the harsh reality in which they live. Where to they turn? They hate society so they lash out at society. They find something, like witchcraft etc, which can be used as a veil for the true underlying desire--to cause pain and grief equal to that which they feel they have endured. It has nothing to do with the NATURE of withcraft, or Wicca, or Fantasy novels; they are merely the excuse WE look for for the behavior. It's too easy, and not a very intelligent way to look at things, to just look at that act and place the blame on the WITCHCRAFT. That's compelte B.S. but it's the type of tactic fundamentalists employ so that they can say "Hey look! We TOLD you it was bad! See? See?" And then we're all supposed to marvel at how insightful you have been and how these "evil things" like witchcraft and fantasy 'turned these kids' into ritualistic murderers.
It is disturbing behavior to be sure. But I would argue that the seeds were planted there LONG before the interest in the occult arose. They were LOOKING for an outlet. Had it not been this "coven" it would have been something else. Society needs to look at the reasons kids like this feel SO oppressed by society that they need to lash out at it. ANd the true reason for this murder isn't even known yet. THey knew the daughter; maybe it was a more personal vendetta which caused this.
Granted, it was gruesome, but the man is no more dead than he would have been had they shot him once in the head. The method of death only speaks to the particular outlet they found for their rage. Recognizing and preventing the rage itself needs to be the lesson we learn here. Not condemning the outlet as the cause.
And boy Hessian, I was wondering when you were gonna catch wind of that "sword-slaying" article. If you were to know more about those children other than the fact that they belonged to a "coven" (no where does it SPECIFICALLY address the Wiccan Faith; it merely touts an interest in Witchcraft) then you might be able to find the true reason behind their deviance. Funny how the description of these kids fits so perfectly the description of the kids in Columbine with the black coats, long hair, outsider mentality and interest in the fantasty world. This type of response to poor parenting, teasing, being ostracized by peers, even beaten up etc... is very common in adolescents and often results in their feeling the need to "escape" the harsh reality in which they live. Where to they turn? They hate society so they lash out at society. They find something, like witchcraft etc, which can be used as a veil for the true underlying desire--to cause pain and grief equal to that which they feel they have endured. It has nothing to do with the NATURE of withcraft, or Wicca, or Fantasy novels; they are merely the excuse WE look for for the behavior. It's too easy, and not a very intelligent way to look at things, to just look at that act and place the blame on the WITCHCRAFT. That's compelte B.S. but it's the type of tactic fundamentalists employ so that they can say "Hey look! We TOLD you it was bad! See? See?" And then we're all supposed to marvel at how insightful you have been and how these "evil things" like witchcraft and fantasy 'turned these kids' into ritualistic murderers.
It is disturbing behavior to be sure. But I would argue that the seeds were planted there LONG before the interest in the occult arose. They were LOOKING for an outlet. Had it not been this "coven" it would have been something else. Society needs to look at the reasons kids like this feel SO oppressed by society that they need to lash out at it. ANd the true reason for this murder isn't even known yet. THey knew the daughter; maybe it was a more personal vendetta which caused this.
Granted, it was gruesome, but the man is no more dead than he would have been had they shot him once in the head. The method of death only speaks to the particular outlet they found for their rage. Recognizing and preventing the rage itself needs to be the lesson we learn here. Not condemning the outlet as the cause.
For those of you who have not seen the article Hessian was referring to, I want to show you a few more quotes from it. Hessian provided a few but of course there is more to the story. Seems like these kids had many other issues. There is also a comment by the leader of the coven saying these kids were not members. Here are the quotes:
"Matt Hulbert, Kyle Hulbert's father, said his son has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. "Kyle has serious, serious mental issues," Matt Hulbert said. "He has been off his medication for three months."
Kyle Hulbert, 18, the purported ringleader of the plot, bounced among foster homes, wore black and spent countless hours in Internet chat rooms.
Katie Inglis, 19, a talented artist who often was teased in high school because she was quiet, abruptly left a Navy basic training camp in Illinois in May.
Michael Pfohl, 21, Inglis's boyfriend, painted his nails dark colors and often spoke of violence.
The leader of the coven, who asked not to be identified, said that Pfohl and Inglis were not members but shared their interests. She said the coven is peaceful.
Looks to me like that damn Harry Potter has turned a few more innocent, god fearing people to the dark side. When will the madness end!!!
"Matt Hulbert, Kyle Hulbert's father, said his son has been diagnosed with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. "Kyle has serious, serious mental issues," Matt Hulbert said. "He has been off his medication for three months."
Kyle Hulbert, 18, the purported ringleader of the plot, bounced among foster homes, wore black and spent countless hours in Internet chat rooms.
Katie Inglis, 19, a talented artist who often was teased in high school because she was quiet, abruptly left a Navy basic training camp in Illinois in May.
Michael Pfohl, 21, Inglis's boyfriend, painted his nails dark colors and often spoke of violence.
The leader of the coven, who asked not to be identified, said that Pfohl and Inglis were not members but shared their interests. She said the coven is peaceful.
Looks to me like that damn Harry Potter has turned a few more innocent, god fearing people to the dark side. When will the madness end!!!
Nice, Danny...I'm glad someone went back and made sure the whole story was presented. Here's some more food for thought from and FBI study on Violent Crime and the Occult/Satanism/Goth:
In 1992, the FBI National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime published an extensive report by Kenneth Lanning, Supervisory Special Agent, entitled Satanic, Occult, Ritualistic Crime: A Law Enforcement Perspective. Excerpts from this study may help clarify some misunderstanding about satanism. This information also relates to the misunderstandings surrounding Goth:
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus, and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like this statement, but few can argue with it... After all the hype and hysteria is put aside, the realization sets in that most satanic/occult activity involves the commission of NO crimes, and that which does, usually involves the commission of relatively minor crimes... It is easy to blame involvement in satanism and the occult for behaviors that have complex motivations. A teenager's excessive involvement in Satanism and the occult is usually a symptom of a problem and not the cause of a problem. Blaming Satanism for a teenagers' vandalism, theft, suicide or even act of murder is like blaming a criminal's offenses on his tattoos: both are often signs of the same rebelliousness and lack of self-esteem that contribute to the commission of crimes.
"Most teenagers involved in fantasy role-playing games, heavy metal music, or Satanism and the occult are going through a stage of adolescent development and commit no significant crimes. The teenagers who have more serious problems are usually those from dysfunctional families or those who have poor communications within their families. Those troubled teenagers turn to Satanism and the occult to overcome a sense of alienation, to obtain power, or to justify their antisocial behaviour. For these teenagers, it is the symbolism, not the spirituality, that is important. It is either the psychopathic or the oddball, loner teenager who is most likely to get into serious trouble. Extreme involvement in the occult is a symptom of a problem, not the cause. This is not to deny, however, that Satanism and the occult are negative influences for a troubled teenager. But to hysterically warn teenagers to avoid this 'mysterious, powerful, and dangerous' thing called Satanism will drive some teenagers right into it. Some rebellious teenagers will do whatever will most shock and outrage society in order to flaunt their rejection of adult norms..."
In 1992, the FBI National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime published an extensive report by Kenneth Lanning, Supervisory Special Agent, entitled Satanic, Occult, Ritualistic Crime: A Law Enforcement Perspective. Excerpts from this study may help clarify some misunderstanding about satanism. This information also relates to the misunderstandings surrounding Goth:
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus, and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like this statement, but few can argue with it... After all the hype and hysteria is put aside, the realization sets in that most satanic/occult activity involves the commission of NO crimes, and that which does, usually involves the commission of relatively minor crimes... It is easy to blame involvement in satanism and the occult for behaviors that have complex motivations. A teenager's excessive involvement in Satanism and the occult is usually a symptom of a problem and not the cause of a problem. Blaming Satanism for a teenagers' vandalism, theft, suicide or even act of murder is like blaming a criminal's offenses on his tattoos: both are often signs of the same rebelliousness and lack of self-esteem that contribute to the commission of crimes.
"Most teenagers involved in fantasy role-playing games, heavy metal music, or Satanism and the occult are going through a stage of adolescent development and commit no significant crimes. The teenagers who have more serious problems are usually those from dysfunctional families or those who have poor communications within their families. Those troubled teenagers turn to Satanism and the occult to overcome a sense of alienation, to obtain power, or to justify their antisocial behaviour. For these teenagers, it is the symbolism, not the spirituality, that is important. It is either the psychopathic or the oddball, loner teenager who is most likely to get into serious trouble. Extreme involvement in the occult is a symptom of a problem, not the cause. This is not to deny, however, that Satanism and the occult are negative influences for a troubled teenager. But to hysterically warn teenagers to avoid this 'mysterious, powerful, and dangerous' thing called Satanism will drive some teenagers right into it. Some rebellious teenagers will do whatever will most shock and outrage society in order to flaunt their rejection of adult norms..."
I think this line was my fovorite
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus, and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan."
So weather someone uses christianity, islam, or witchcraft for violence, they are still wrong and are using the beliefs to hide behind and not truely understanding and embracing them.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus, and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan."
So weather someone uses christianity, islam, or witchcraft for violence, they are still wrong and are using the beliefs to hide behind and not truely understanding and embracing them.
S
ShellyCW
Guest
"Some rebellious teenagers will do whatever will most shock and outrage society in order to flaunt their rejection of adult norms..."
Maybe if we as adults were smarter, we would loudly condemn things like vegetables, homework, and calling grandma regularly. 
Maybe if we as adults were smarter, we would loudly condemn things like vegetables, homework, and calling grandma regularly.
I think you're absolutely right about Harry Potter promoting pagan and wiccanistic ways. I suggest we keep our children from it, along with all the other pagan-derived traditions we have in our culture. (Christmas and Easter spring immediately to mind, but give me time and I'm sure I could come up with a dozen more.)
Well, aalgar! Jumping right in there, eh? 
Welcome!
Welcome!
Of course. I'd be happy to elaborate.
Christmas and Easter are not originally Christian holidays. While their meanings have been adapted to Christian beliefs, they fall on or near the winter solstice and the spring equinox, respectively. These are occasions that are celebrated by Pagans, and were "borrowed" by early Christians. Most people acknowledge that Christ wasn't born on December 25th -- that's just the day we choose to celebrate it on.
Christmas and Easter are not originally Christian holidays. While their meanings have been adapted to Christian beliefs, they fall on or near the winter solstice and the spring equinox, respectively. These are occasions that are celebrated by Pagans, and were "borrowed" by early Christians. Most people acknowledge that Christ wasn't born on December 25th -- that's just the day we choose to celebrate it on.