Hello, God.

[2ndAmendment]

2A, what say you about the next verse then?I am not trying to be flippant here, I am seriously asking.
1 Cor 6:5
5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?

OK, lets take the whole section.

1 Corinthians 6:1-11

1Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints?

2Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

4So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?

5I say this to your shame Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren,

6but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?

7Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?

8On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

The sole purpose is to discourage Christians from taking each other to court. Paul points out that in the life to come, Christians will judge the world and the angels. Then he says, that Christians should be able to decide what is right between Christian brothers without going to court. The passage you quote is out of context. When put with verses 4 and 6, 7, and 8, it is clear that the failing and shame Paul is speaking about is Christians taking each other to court.

 

[2ndAmendment]

May I just be brutally honest here for a minute?

You don't have to like condemnation from the nonbelievers. Jesus probably didn't like it much when they nailed him to the cross, know what I'm saying?

And I say this with complete affection in the spirit of conversation, because I loves me some 2A

Oh, I agree. I don't think anyone likes condemnation. I know Jesus did not want to be nailed to the cross. He prayed to have the cup taken from Him, but He went on with Your will and not Mine be done. That is one of the mysteries of God, God the Father, God come as man, the Son of Man, and God, the Holy Spirit. Each fully God and of only one God, but existing it three distinct ways. It is beyond my understanding, but I believe it just the same because I have experienced relationship with each.

 

[Tonio]

May I just be brutally honest here for a minute?

You don't have to like condemnation from the nonbelievers. Jesus probably didn't like it much when they nailed him to the cross, know what I'm saying?

And I say this with complete affection in the spirit of conversation, because I loves me some 2A

I don't intend to condemn anyone's religious beliefs. What I don't like is evangelism of any sort, including Slotted's athiestic evangelism. Vrai, although you're an athiest too, I've never seen you condemn people who aren't athiests, and good on ya.

 

[camily]

OK, lets take the whole section.The sole purpose is to discourage Christians from taking each other to court. Paul points out that in the life to come, Christians will judge the world and the angels. Then he says, that Christians should be able to decide what is right between Christian brothers without going to court. The passage you quote is out of context. When put with verses 4 and 6, 7, and 8, it is clear that the failing and shame Paul is speaking about is Christians taking each other to court.

But if I took it out of context then didn't you as well? You were saying it meant christians will be judging each other, but this in talking about court, not eternal life vs. damnation. Right? Again, not trying to cause waves, just asking.

 

[2ndAmendment]

But if I took it out of context then didn't you as well? You were saying it meant christians will be judging each other, but this in talking about court, not eternal life vs. damnation. Right? Again, not trying to cause waves, just asking.

No. Paul was saying that since we will judge the world and the angels in spiritual affairs we should certainly be capable of judging between ourselves in human affairs. The first thought stands alone. The saints (Christians) will judge the world and the angels is a complete thought. It is the predication for the reasoning that since Christians will judge the world, Christians should be able to judge right and wrong between Christians in this life and that since the Christians at Corinth were taking each other to civil court rather than the church, they were failing themselves. Not only that, the fact they had reason to go to court was disparaged since they should not have been defrauding or doing wrong to each other simply because they should be above that because they were Christians.

 

[camily]

No. Paul was saying that since we will judge the world and the angels in spiritual affairs we should certainly be capable of judging between ourselves in human affairs. The first thought stands alone. The saints (Christians) will judge the world and the angels is a complete thought. It is the predication for the reasoning that since Christians will judge the world, Christians should be able to judge right and wrong between Christians in this life and that since the Christians at Corinth were taking each other to civil court rather than the church, they were failing themselves. Not only that, the fact they had reason to go to court was disparaged since they should not have been defrauding or doing wrong to each other simply because they should be above that because they were Christians.

Thanks. By the way Paul is one of my favorite people in the Bible. I like the fact that he asked God to remove the "thorn from his side" but God told him that his faith was sufficient. Many believe the "thorn" was that he had many affairs. What is your belief? I like his faithfulness though. He had quite a life!!

 

[camily]

Thanks. By the way Paul is one of my favorite people in the Bible. I like the fact that he asked God to remove the "thorn from his side" but God told him that his faith was sufficient. Many believe the "thorn" was that he had many affairs. What is your belief? I like his faithfulness though. He had quite a life!!

By the way, I wasn't implying that it is ok to have affairs or that that is why I like him. I meant that I like him for everything!

 

[fttrsbeerwench]

I think you might be in for a surprise.

Being smug doesn't make you right. Neither does the strength of your faith.

Your God can be jealous and cruel and vain and anything else that suits your need to be righteous,or right or better than someone else.


Mine is not.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Thanks. By the way Paul is one of my favorite people in the Bible. I like the fact that he asked God to remove the "thorn from his side" but God told him that his faith was sufficient. Many believe the "thorn" was that he had many affairs. What is your belief? I like his faithfulness though. He had quite a life!!

His thorn was his eyes. Remember that Paul, while he was still called Saul, was struck blind by Jesus when he was on the road to Damascus.

Acts 9:1-19

1Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest,

2and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

3As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;

4and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

5And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,

6but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."

7The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

8Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.

9And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

10Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord."

11And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying,

12and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight."

13But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem;

14and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name."

15But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;

16for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake."

17So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

18And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

19and he took food and was strengthened.

Paul's sight was left blurred. Why? The Bible does not say, but I think it was a reminder to Paul to rely on the Lord and not himself. Paul says he has to write with large letters.

Galatians 6:11See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand.

 

[2ndAmendment]

By the way, I wasn't implying that it is ok to have affairs or that that is why I like him. I meant that I like him for everything!

There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that Paul had affairs. He was in prison most of the time.

 

[camily]

There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that Paul had affairs. He was in prison most of the time.

Let me ask my pastor what passage refers to what I am talking about and I'll get back to you. Thanks though.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Being smug doesn't make you right. Neither does the strength of your faith.

Your God can be jealous and cruel and vain and anything else that suits your need to be righteous,or right or better than someone else.


Mine is not.

I was not trying to be smug. I cannot be righteous not better than anyone. I am only a sinner saved by grace. My God is the God of the Bible. He is loving, righteous, demanding, but executes vengeance against those that reject Him.

I post what I post not because I hate but because I have the hope that all will come to Jesus as Savior and Lord. It would be easy to just keep quiet and then I would not take the heat that I do. But that would be wrong for me to do; I would be denying my calling.

You are obiously free to follow your own path, but I truly hope for everyone I have contact with in anyway to find Jesus. If you have, great. If you haven't, I hope you do.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Let me ask my pastor what passage refers to what I am talking about and I'll get back to you. Thanks though.

It might be this.

Romans 7:14-25

14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

21I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

23but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

But this does not say anything about affairs. It points out that Paul, like us, have a war of flesh and spirit going on all the time. We do what scripture says we shouldn't and don't do what scripture says we should.

 

[camily]

It's definitely the Corinthians passage. I've been searching "Paul's Thorn" and it is unbelievable the translations!! You could think it was about anything it seems.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It's definitely the Corinthians passage. I've been searching "Paul's Thorn" and it is unbelievable the translations!! You could think it was about anything it seems.

I would bet that a lot of them are "wishful thinking". You know if Paul _______ (fill in the blank), then it is OK for me too. I'll still go to heaven. My observation is, wrong attitude. We sin. We all do. Christians sin and ask forgiveness and really attempt to not repeat the sin again. To sin because Paul did it or Peter did it or ... so I can is not a repentant attitude.

 

[camily]

I would bet that a lot of them are "wishful thinking". You know if Paul _______ (fill in the blank), then it is OK for me too. I'll still go to heaven. My observation is, wrong attitude. We sin. We all do. Christians sin and ask forgiveness and really attempt to not repeat the sin again. To sin because Paul did it or Peter did it or ... so I can is not a repentant attitude.

I even read that it was that Paul was gay! I think no one knows, and truely, it doesn't matter what it was. That isn't the point.

 

[Tonio]

I post what I post not because I hate but because I have the hope that all will come to Jesus as Savior and Lord. It would be easy to just keep quiet and then I would not take the heat that I do. But that would be wrong for me to do; I would be denying my calling.

I can appreciate your sincerity. This isn't meant personally, but I don't trust the motives of anyone who wants to change my beliefs. In my view, the only logical motive that a person can have for wanting to change other people's beliefs is to control others, to bend them to the person's will.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I even read that it was that Paul was gay! I think no one knows, and truely, it doesn't matter what it was. That isn't the point.

I take the Bible at face value. Paul was blinded and then given his sight. He wrote of his poor eyesight. So, to me, his thorn was his eyesight. In general, people complain about what is bothering them or their "thorn".

 

[2ndAmendment]

I can appreciate your sincerity. This isn't meant personally, but I don't trust the motives of anyone who wants to change my beliefs. In my view, the only logical motive that a person can have for wanting to change other people's beliefs is to control others, to bend them to the person's will.

I know very few on here IRL, so I don't see how that could be my motive. I don't want anyone to drink any cool-aid. All I want is for people to take advantage of God's free gift of salvation. Nothing more. I can't change you. I can only change me, or better yet, let the Holy Spirit change me. Only you can change you. All I can hope to do is spread the good news and trust that some of the seeds will grow.