Hey, lets hear it for the unions....

[Gilligan]

I have no doubt whatsoever that corporations would take advantage if they could because that's the nature of business, the bottom line.
.

If that is the general "nature" of corporations (and I run one) then why has private sector union membership plummeted over the years to the virtually irrelevant level it now is?

 

[dave1959]

Well, yeah. Thanks to unions in the past, there are now labor laws in place that give unions a little less to fight for regarding safety, work hours, etc. However, with today's prevailing attitude, "Just be thankful you have a job" implies that there possibly could be a return to the "abuse" (I use that term lightly) of workers. I have no doubt whatsoever that corporations would take advantage if they could because that's the nature of business, the bottom line.

Example, I know a woman working for a gov't contractor. She was told she would not get a pay raise in "solidarity with the military", but yet the raises were already worked into the contract which means it's more money for corporate profit instead of her pocket. This is something I view as an abuse of workers, and a union wouldn't allow that to happen to her. But hey, she's just thankful she has a job these days, and that contractor knows it well and is taking advantage of it.

If she is unhappy or feels she is being taken advantage of then she should look elsewhere for employment....

 

[Radiant1]

If that is the general "nature" of corporations (and I run one) then why has private sector union membership plummeted over the years to the virtually irrelevant level it now is?

If it was irrelevant, than the majority of you wouldn't be biotching about unions, now would you? The numbers have declined because the unions have been doing their job. As I said, they are a large reason why current labor laws are in place. I tend to think the unions still have a small role as a checks and balances against corporations running rough shod over their workers. And, if you run a corporation and don't take advantage of your workers for the bottom line of your corporation ($$), then good for you!! You won't have to deal with a union and there should be more like ya!

As Larry said, we shouldn't want a totally free market any more than a socialized economy. It's a matter of balance.

If she is unhappy or feels she is being taken advantage of then she should look elsewhere for employment....

Yeah sure she can and I believe she has, but this is exactly the mentality I'm talking about. "Hey, at least you have a job, suck it up buttercup!" "You don't like it? Well tough, you can always look for another job in our current dismal economy. Good luck with that!"

 

[ylexot]

 

[Gilligan]

If it was irrelevant, than the majority of you wouldn't be biotching about unions, now would you? !"

Speaking only for myself, I only "biotch" about the privte sector unions to the extent that I'm astounded at the degree to which they seem to have a death wish...but otherwise I recognize the they are irrelevant and soon gone the way of the dinosaur. So I would characterize my take as more one of "laffing and pointing" than "biotching".

Far more relevant and far more dangerous are the public sector unions, IMO.

 

[waupaca]

They stood their ground...wonder how those demands feel now.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Hostess Brands -- the maker of such iconic baked goods as Twinkies, Devil Dogs and Wonder Bread -- announced Friday that it is asking a federal bankruptcy court for permission to close its operations, blaming a strike by bakers protesting a new contract imposed on them.
The closing will result in Hostess' nearly 18,500 workers losing their jobs as the company shuts 33 bakeries and 565 distribution centers nationwide. The bakers' union represents around 5,000.

Hostess Brands closing for good due to bakers strike - Nov. 16, 2012

The first time I first saw the union unrealistic demands was with Zenith Radio company. ( I believe some of you remember that brand) in the late 80's facing a lot of foreign competition, Zenith attempted to restructure which meant union contracts needed to be renegotiated . The unions refused to budge and the end result was Zenith was sold and the company moved operations to Mexico. Good bye to thousands of jobs and a town died.
This scenario has probably happened many times and will probably happen many more. Unions have changed dramatically in the past few decades and are no longer useful except for political purposes. Almost anything that is produced/serviced by unions the cost will be much higher.

 

[BigBlue]

Simple, really. Protect workers and provide jobs. Their role, properly understood, has nothing to do with improving products and/or services. That is not their purpose.

Guy I know is union and, in private, he'd agree with everything you just wrote. However, the wages and benefits are very, very good for him and his family and, at the end of the day, his responsibility is to himself and his family.

I understand opposition to unions on the grounds you cite. However, we can't just forget how workers would be treated otherwise. We should no more want a total free market than we should want complete socialization of the economy.

The problem we have is balance.

One thing noone is talking about is how Unions help the non Union workers in the same job.Auto industry is a great example.Toyota and Honda and Hyundia as a few pay their workers well,why,becuase they don't want the auto unions in their plants and the cars cost just as much

 

[JoeRider]

one thing noone is talking about is how unions help the non union workers in the same job.auto industry is a great example.toyota and honda and hyundia as a few pay their workers well,why,becuase they don't want the auto unions in their plants and the cars cost just as much

lol

 

[JoeRider]

Well, yeah. Thanks to unions in the past, there are now labor laws in place that give unions a little less to fight for regarding safety, work hours, etc. However, with today's prevailing attitude, "Just be thankful you have a job" implies that there possibly could be a return to the "abuse" (I use that term lightly) of workers. I have no doubt whatsoever that corporations would take advantage if they could because that's the nature of business, the bottom line.

Guess what, non-union companies the been offering heathcare, hiring disabled, providing pensions, hiring minorities, flexible work hours and supporting GLT polices way before the government or unions came in to play. Competitive Salaries are part of the equation. Unions do not create competition, they eliminate it.

Surprising, the legal system and liability attorneys play a bigger role in safety that the government at the workplace.

Here is an example of one company.


History of Diversity in IBM

1899: Hired women before women were given the right to vote
1914: Hired first person with a disability
1935 - 1953:
Recruited first professional women
Appointed first female vice president
Hired first black salesman
Introduced first written Equal Opportunity policy
1972 - 1996:
Helped to create Hispanic Leadership Fund
Added sexual orientation to nondiscrimination policy
Implemented domestic partner benefits
2001 - Present:
Extended IBM’s Global Work/Life Fund 2005 and 2007
Added "sexual orientation, gender identity or expressions” to global equal opportunity letter
Spearheaded People with Disabilities marketing initiative on accessibility
Initiated global Flexible Work Options for employees

 

[Larry Gude]

One thing noone is talking about is how Unions help the non Union workers in the same job.Auto industry is a great example.Toyota and Honda and Hyundia as a few pay their workers well,why,becuase they don't want the auto unions in their plants and the cars cost just as much

That would be one way to look at it.

Another way might be to say that intransigence on the part of the unions over the years cost American car makers ALL that market share.

After having made the comment I made earlier, that the point of the union is to protect workers and create more jobs, that's only true in a narrow focus as evidenced by the long term decline in the number of union jobs. There was a point in wages in benefits where Ford, Chrysler and GM, especially GM, could have answered market demand that got filled by the folks you mention, the imports but, that's not how it worked out.

 

[BigBlue]

Guess what, non-union companies the been offering heathcare, hiring disabled, providing pensions, hiring minorities, flexible work hours and supporting GLT polices way before the government or unions came in to play.


History of Diversity in IBM

1899: Hired women before women were given the right to vote
1914: Hired first person with a disability
1935 - 1953:
Recruited first professional women
Appointed first female vice president
Hired first black salesman
Introduced first written Equal Opportunity policy
1972 - 1996:
Helped to create Hispanic Leadership Fund
Added sexual orientation to nondiscrimination policy
Implemented domestic partner benefits
2001 - Present:
Extended IBM’s Global Work/Life Fund 2005 and 2007
Added "sexual orientation, gender identity or expressions” to global equal opportunity letter
Spearheaded People with Disabilities marketing initiative on accessibility
Initiated global Flexible Work Options for employees

Great for IBM,the blacks ,women and the handicap were payed less and treated like crap.I see nothing about health care or working conditions or child labor laws or retirement?

 

[BigBlue]

What have Unions done for Us lately....,nice read.




What have unions done for us? - CNN.com

and thank them for these also....


Big Corporation


Big Corporation: Thank a Union: 36 Ways Unions Have Improved Your Life


I Pledge Allegiance to the Banks of the United States of America
And to the Corporations for Which They Stand
One Nation Where Money is God
Made Divisible, No Liberty or Justice at All...


Sunday, June 12, 2011Thank a Union: 36 Ways Unions Have Improved Your Life
Let's get one thing straight...

Employers and Corporations did not feel generous and decide to give you two days off every week to have a social/personal life. (We now call them weekends). Corporations did not just feel like being nice one day and give their employees paid vacations. CEOs didn't get together in a board room and say "Let's give our employees more rights at work" or "Maybe there should be laws to limit our power over an employee".

Virtually ALL the benefits you have at work, whether you work in the public or private sector, all of the benefits and rights you enjoy everyday are there because unions fought hard and long for them against big business who did everything they could to prevent giving you your rights. Many union leaders and members even lost their lives for things we take for granted today.

The right-wing attack on unions is nothing more than ignorance, lack of education, and propaganda.

If republicans would rather support corporations instead of organized groups of workers working to secure a fair work environment A.K.A a union, I ask them to walk the walk as well. Give up every benefit and right that you use that unions are responsible for.

Complete trust and submit yourself to the corporate agenda you fight for. Play by their rules with no influence from democrats or labor unions to try to force rights among the workers of this country. Dedicate your life to their life goal of making your company more money than the year before. Just understand that this may mean sacrificing the union fought rights you enjoy everyday. I mean, you don't want to be a hypocrite, do you? Like bashing unions on your union fought lunch break? Which means if you practice what you preach, you don't get a lunch break.

Corporations use to work employees 80+ hours a week, offer no breaks, hire children, offer horrid, unsanitary work conditions, paid literally next to nothing, and even murder. Not murder with a pen like they do today, but actual murder. They basically did whatever they wanted.

This is what they were like before unions. Don't take my word for it, look it up. (Links at bottom of page). If we rid the world of unions tomorrow, who is to say that they won't go right back to the way they were merely 70 years ago? The GOP governor of Maine signed a bill to repeal child labor laws this year, maybe they are going back to their roots whether we have unions or not.

So conservatives, please practice what you preach and give up all these rights and leave the umbrella of these laws for they were brought to you by unions...

36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union


Weekends
All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
Paid Vacation
FMLA
Sick Leave
Social Security
Minimum Wage
Civil Rights Act/Title VII (Prohibits Employer Discrimination)
8-Hour Work Day
Overtime Pay
Child Labor Laws
Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
40 Hour Work Week
Worker's Compensation (Worker's Comp)
Unemployment Insurance
Pensions
Workplace Safety Standards and Regulations
Employer Health Care Insurance
Collective Bargaining Rights for Employees
Wrongful Termination Laws
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Whistleblower Protection Laws
Employee Polygraph Protect Act (Prohibits Employer from using a lie detector test on an employee)
Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
Compensation increases and Evaluations (Raises)
Sexual Harassment Laws
Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
Holiday Pay
Employer Dental, Life, and Vision Insurance
Privacy Rights
Pregnancy and Parental Leave
Military Leave
The Right to Strike
Public Education for Children
Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 (Requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work)
Laws Ending Sweatshops in the United States

 

[BigBlue]

That would be one way to look at it.

Another way might be to say that intransigence on the part of the unions over the years cost American car makers ALL that market share.

.

It would be the right way to look at it but I see in your eyes management again gets away scott free from any responsability for lost market share.

 

[Gilligan]

What have Unions done for Us lately....,nice read.

LMAO..I've seen that crock of bs before. Pretty simple scam...list every workplace and employee protection bill and law that has been put on the books since the first union formed and give all the credit to unions.

If the sun had started rising about that time, y'all be taking credit for that too, I guess?

PS: Do you know how many of those nice things were started by folks like Henry Ford...as one example? But I digress.

 

[Gilligan]

Great for IBM,the blacks ,women and the handicap were payed less and treated like crap.?

Links to anything backing that up? TIA.

 

[blazinlow89]

One thing noone is talking about is how Unions help the non Union workers in the same job.Auto industry is a great example.Toyota and Honda and Hyundia as a few pay their workers well,why,becuase they don't want the auto unions in their plants and the cars cost just as much

You are a ####ing idiot. You also confirmed that you are just another MPD of Giantone, listed the same union propaganda about 3 months ago.

You may also want to consider that for skilled labor the pay is generally higher. Non union automakers can afford to pay their employee's comparable to the union one's with no issue. I doubt it has anything to do with worry of employee's leaving for a union job. It may have something to do with the fact that the company does not have to pay into union benefits and pensions that seem to either not exist when needed, or disappear when the company starts going broke (how does that work when the accounts are union held). The union is there to help the dirt back employee, the one who does the minimum if not less to get by and will always have a job thanks to union protection. The same guy who points the finger at everyone else when he ####s up.

 

[JoeRider]

Links to anything backing that up? TIA.

Why unions are bad for workers

Unions eventually hurt union workers because unionized companies atrophy. Non-union Toyota grew, while GM shrank. JetBlue Airlines blossomed, while unionized TWA and Pan Am went out of business. Unions “protect” workers all the way to the unemployment line.


John Stossel

It is not hard to back up salary differences since the work force was different over the last century and the dynamics continue to change and adjust to changing times. I like how the Union takes credit for things are just the natural progression of the work force. My example was not all encompassing but to show that it was private sector, not government or union that leads the charge for change. Pretty soon the unions will be claiming they helped the sun rise this morning.

There are now women and black men in CEO positions in the top 100 corporations. Point - Women and Blacks are moving in to leadership roles. Guess what, we even have a President that has black roots (and Muslin too!) The only area that is lagging is Black Women (yet Condi Rice is a good example)


I love it - reference to the Communism News Network. The union comments are direct propaganda for the Marxist–Leninist machine. Workers of the World, Unite please!

It is interesting that many of the things on the so call list that the Union is taking credit for was already in play including limited work week, pensions and healthcare. Shoot, one of George Washington's big complaints about slaves was providing healthcare and retirement to his slaves.

One reason to change the slavery model was it was a bad economic model for owners beyond the moral side of things.

Unions add zero value to the development of new better product. In the last 50 years they have done zero to increase the standard of living for anyone but the union members and what benefit to current or recently retired union members is now questionable since they system of graft and bribery is failing. Talk to retired automotive workers about how they are getting screwed.


What is worst is that on top of paying more for union goods, we will have to bail out their under funded pension plans. So, think about it. You paid more for a product so a Union person could get paid more (a lot more) and then you are paying for his pension that the Union purposefully under funded. You are paying for someone else with your hard work that you will get zero to little pension. I guess since 47% don't work, they have no clue about this (sarcasm).

5 Reasons Unions Are Bad For America - John Hawkins - Page 1



1) Unions are severely damaging whole industries....

2) Unions are ruining public education...



3) Unions are costing you billions of tax dollars.....

4) Unions are fundamentally anti-democratic....

5) Government unions are bankrupting cities and states...

As the Washington Times has noted, union pensions are crushing budgets all across the country.

Yet it comes as little surprise that the same profligacy that pervades the corridors of federal power infects this country’s 87,000 state, county and municipal governments and school districts. By 2013, the amount of retirement money promised to employees of these public entities will exceed cash on hand by more than a trillion dollars.

 

[Gilligan]

It is not hard to back up salary differences since the work force was different over the last century and the dynamics continue to change and adjust to changing times.

I was asking for anything supporting his specific assertion wrt IBM.

 

[JoeRider]

I was asking for anything supporting his specific assertion wrt IBM.

I know. He can't since he does not have payroll history. My point was that it was the private sector, not government or unions that actually championed good benefits for workers. Ford wanted to make a car that their employees could buy. Standard Oil treated their workers really well, but the progressive historians make Rockefeller out to be a robber baron. I would say the real robber barons are the unions and the government.

What is scary is the progressive agenda is really showing. Socialist/Communism is making progress. I hope people wake up and realize that this is not a good thing. Soviet History speaks for it self. People of the World - Wake UP!

 

[MarieB]

Why unions are bad for workers

Unions eventually hurt union workers because unionized companies atrophy. Non-union Toyota grew, while GM shrank. JetBlue Airlines blossomed, while unionized TWA and Pan Am went out of business. Unions “protect” workers all the way to the unemployment line.

Southwest is union