IRAQ: 250 Militants killed in Najaf

[Pete]

I hate talk radio all together.

I like it when they can present a reasonable argument in a coherent way. Air Amerika and the left just hate. Bush is a chimp, Bush caused Global warming, Bush is the devil, Bush blew up the WTC so he could go after Saddam for trying to shoot his daddy.

 

[PsyOps]

If we can engage more major co0mbat like we did Sunday, there's a good chance we can leave Iraq soon.

Enemy = 200+ killed
US = 2 killed.

That's pretty damn good.

All we needed to do is get the politicians out of the mix and let the military do their job and this would have been over a long time ago. We also need to get the media out of there.

 

[Larry Gude]

Would you stop that...

It's a sign that we can wage war with these people. The right leadership and the right special ops can take out any number of unorganized insurg... terrorists.

...it makes my head hurt.

There never was, at least there should not have been, any question about US military domination of any battlefield. That 200 gomers were killed in one place at one time is indicative of how we've chosen to 'fight' this 'war' of late more than any validation of our might and prowess. They, the bad guys, felt safe enough to gather in such numbers. What's that tell you?

This is an insurgency. Insurgents are the water. We are the damn. You can make a damn out of many materials; concrete, chicken, wire, bubble gum, etc. Regardless of the material, the foundation you build the damn on is critical; what are the banks made of? What does the damn rest on? The banks are the surrounding nations and the foundation is the people you are trying to help overcome the insurgency, the Iraqi people.

We have water coming through the banks and we have water flowing under the damn. W has proposed to send over more sandbags to put on the worst leaks; Baghdad.

The questions are;

1. Is the damn reparable? How bad is the erosion on the banks and underneath? Being the US, we can fix anything given our resources, so, a better question is 'is this fixable at a cost we are willing to bare'?

That begats the next question;

2. Is the water receding or building? If it's receding, then maybe the banks and foundations can be repaired and it makes sense to shore up the damn so there's no sudden breach. If the banks and foundation and damn are strong, the water will recede when the storm ebbs.

And so on and so forth.

 

[Pete]

...it makes my head hurt.

There never was, at least there should not have been, any question about US military domination of any battlefield. That 200 gomers were killed in one place at one time is indicative of how we've chosen to 'fight' this 'war' of late more than any validation of our might and prowess. They, the bad guys, felt safe enough to gather in such numbers. What's that tell you?

This is an insurgency. Insurgents are the water. We are the damn. You can make a damn out of many materials; concrete, chicken, wire, bubble gum, etc. Regardless of the material, the foundation you build the damn on is critical; what are the banks made of? What does the damn rest on? The banks are the surrounding nations and the foundation is the people you are trying to help overcome the insurgency, the Iraqi people.

We have water coming through the banks and we have water flowing under the damn. W has proposed to send over more sandbags to put on the worst leaks; Baghdad.

The questions are;

1. Is the damn reparable? How bad is the erosion on the banks and underneath? Being the US, we can fix anything given our resources, so, a better question is 'is this fixable at a cost we are willing to bare'?

That begats the next question;

2. Is the water receding or building? If it's receding, then maybe the banks and foundations can be repaired and it makes sense to shore up the damn so there's no sudden breach. If the banks and foundation and damn are strong, the water will recede when the storm ebbs.

And so on and so forth.

Excellent analogy Mr. Gude

 

[Larry Gude]

I thought so...

Excellent analogy Mr. Gude

...I'm like, sitting here, writing and, with each sentence, I'm like, 'this is ####ing perfect!'

It's simple.

It's elegent.

It's accurate.

And all the complexities of the real world situation can be directly tied back to the base analogy, so it's also flexible.

I ain't doing another ####ing thing today.

 

[Pete]

...I'm like, sitting here, writing and, with each sentence, I'm like, 'this is ####ing perfect!'

It's simple.

It's elegent.

It's accurate.

And all the complexities of the real world situation can be directly tied back to the base analogy, so it's also flexible.

I ain't doing another ####ing thing today.

I don't know about "elegant"

My neighbor is in a task force that searches out IED's around Baghdad. He was home back in November and said the main problem was we did not have enough troops in Baghdad to saturate the city like we needed. The insurgents we killing civillians, the civillians feared and hated them, but were afraid to turn them in because as soon as the American military came and killed them or chased them away the Americans left and insurgents or their buddies would come and kill them.

If you could saturate the city so the Iraqi people felt safe, the insurgents felt unsafe, they would move along.

 

[Kerad]

...I'm like, sitting here, writing and, with each sentence, I'm like, 'this is ####ing perfect!'

It's simple.

It's elegent.

It's accurate.

And all the complexities of the real world situation can be directly tied back to the base analogy, so it's also flexible.

I ain't doing another ####ing thing today.

If not for all the damn swearing, I could have sworn you were talking about dams.

 

[forestal]

This is what I see....first we were fighting Saddam. We beat him. Then we were fighting the remnants of the Baathists, then Al Qaeda joined in, then the insurgents joined in, and now we've got the CULTS joining in. Tell me how this is progress?

You seem to be pre-occupied with the body count as a measure of success. Smells like Vietnam doesn't it?

Iraqi officials said Monday that U.S.-backed Iraqi troops had targeted a messianic cult called "Soldiers of Heaven" in a weekend battle that left 200 fighters dead, including the group's leader, near the Shiite holy city of Najaf. A military commander said hundreds of gunmen planned to disguise themselves as pilgrims and kill clerics on the holiest day of the Shiite calendar.

The Iraqi government spokesman, Ali al-Dabbagh, said the raid on Sunday in date-palm orchards on the city's outskirts was aimed against the fringe Shiite cult that some Iraqi officials said had links to Saddam Hussein loyalists and foreign fighters. Officials said the group, which included families, was hoping the violence it planned would force the return of the "hidden imam," a 9th-century Shiite saint who Shiites believe will come again to bring peace and justice to the world.​

First of all, no we haven't won yet. But much to your dismay we also haven't lost.

D-Day 6603 American Casualties in a single day
Iwo Jima 6891 American deaths
Total from WWII 408306 American deaths
Korean War 54246 American deaths
Viet Nam 58219 american deaths

So what's our point here Forest? People die in wars. Comparatively, as far as that goes, the significantly low death rate can be marked as a success. But your (and the rest of your liberal friends out there) obsession with body counts will only allow you to see doom and gloom and negativity.

 

[forestal]

Look at the converse::

Operation Ignoble Death
U.S. Deaths by IED = 1183

Number of insurgents/Alqueda killed = 0

That's pretty damn bad and a very ignoble way to die, never seeing or hearing the guy that did it.

If we can engage more major co0mbat like we did Sunday, there's a good chance we can leave Iraq soon.

Enemy = 200+ killed
US = 2 killed.

That's pretty damn good.

 

[forestal]

How about the Neo's way of arguing...

We'll win, because we have to.
We'll win, because we can't possibly lose.
We'll win, because we don't hate America.

I like it when they can present a reasonable argument in a coherent way. Air Amerika and the left just hate. Bush is a chimp, Bush caused Global warming, Bush is the devil, Bush blew up the WTC so he could go after Saddam for trying to shoot his daddy.

 

[Hessian]

Progress? You want progress?

Dead Muslims...that is progress.
Doesn't matter if its Palestine, Somolia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

As long as we're smoking camels, dropping precision rounds, and throwing dirt on towelheads....

its progress.

 

[Pete]

How about the Neo's way of arguing...

We'll win, because we have to.
We'll win, because we can't possibly lose.
We'll win, because we don't hate America.

First of all that is a lie. The conservatives all know and aknowledge that we can lose this. However, every one discussed with facts, strong opinions and logical discourse. Only a completely brain dead sack of tissue could listen to Laura Ingraham for an hour, then listen to Randi Rhodes for an hour and not tell the difference.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Dead Muslims ...that is progress.
Doesn't matter if its Palestine, Somolia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

As long as we're smoking camels, dropping precision rounds, and throwing dirt on towelheads....its progress.

 

[Larry Gude]

Crap...!!!

If not for all the damn swearing, I could have sworn you were talking about dams.

...total brain fart! I was thinking of the difference between dam and damn when I was typing. Not thinking clearly, mind you, but thinking all the same.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Look at the converse::

Operation Ignoble Death
U.S. Deaths by IED = 1183

Number of insurgents/Alqueda killed = 0

That's pretty damn bad and a very ignoble way to die, never seeing or hearing the guy that did it.

You just get m.... you're hopeless.

 

[Kerad]

...total brain fart! I was thinking of the difference between dam and damn when I was typing. Not thinking clearly, mind you, but thinking all the same.

It was a good post. It's just that I was impressed with how you didn't use "dam" one single time. I would have been disappointed in myself if I let it slide through without comment.

 

[PsyOps]

This is what I see....first we were fighting Saddam. We beat him. Then we were fighting the remnants of the Baathists, then Al Qaeda joined in, then the insurgents joined in, and now we've got the CULTS joining in. Tell me how this is progress?

You seem to be pre-occupied with the body count as a measure of success. Smells like Vietnam doesn't it?

And you seem to be obssessed with using body counts as a mark of failure. I think it's a mistake to use body counts either way. People die in wars. A fact you seem not to be able to accept.

Are you trying to convince us that there has been absolutely no successes in Iraq whatsoever?

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

And you seem to be obssessed with using body counts as a mark of failure. I think it's a mistake to use body counts either way. People die in wars. A fact you seem not to be able to accept.

Are you trying to convince us that there has been absolutely no successes in Iraq whatsoever?

There've been a few - but I personally think it's been a failure, in the big picture.

 

[PsyOps]

There've been a few - but I personally think it's been a failure, in the big picture.

So elections that surpass our own percentages by miles, a ratified Constitution, standing national government, local governments, a running stock market, a fully up and running internet (have you seen all the Blogs coming out of Iraq?), fully running cell phone network (even the kids have cell phones), TV shows that mimic and rival that of our own (i.e. Iraq Star; the Iraq version of American Idol), 85+% of the cities are at peace. That's not even all of it and you call that a few successes? I call this HUGE successes considering the destruction they suffered.

Yours is the media brain-washed perception of what is going on in Iraq. Now, I'm certainly not trying to down-play the seriousness of the violence, at least not like the media and the left-wing are actively down-playing the successes that have happened since Saddam was toppled.

 

[Larry Gude]

Good...

So elections that surpass our own percentages by miles, a ratified Constitution, standing national government, local governments, a running stock market, a fully up and running internet (have you seen all the Blogs coming out of Iraq?), fully running cell phone network (even the kids have cell phones), TV shows that mimic and rival that of our own (i.e. Iraq Star; the Iraq version of American Idol), 85+% of the cities are at peace. That's not even all of it and you call that a few successes? I call this HUGE successes considering the destruction they suffered.

Yours is the media brain-washed perception of what is going on in Iraq. Now, I'm certainly not trying to down-play the seriousness of the violence, at least not like the media and the left-wing are actively down-playing the successes that have happened since Saddam was toppled.

...then they certainly don't need us anymore.