Iraqi voter turnout

[Bruzilla]

It always amazes me when so-called gun experts say stupid stuff like a "full auto MP-5." There's no such thing as a full-auto MP-5, they are all selective fire.

I fault Koresh because he did have some illegal guns, and the local Sheriff knew about them and tried several times to get Koresh to turn them in so there wouldn't be any trouble. Had he done that, there wouldn't have been any problems as most likely the Sherriff would have made the guns disappear and no one would have been the wiser. Instead, Koresh tells the Sheriff to get lost, and that he'll shoot the next cop that comes on his land. There's no surer way to bring the neighborhood SWAT team to your abode than to threaten to kill cops. Koresh was your basic egomaniac who thought he was above the law, and I hate seeing him as a poster child for gun enthusiasts.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It always amazes me when so-called gun experts say stupid stuff like a "full auto MP-5." There's no such thing as a full-auto MP-5, they are all selective fire.

We went through the "full auto/select fire" debate a while back. To make it short, the common person means what the military calls select fire when they say full auto. Select fire only means you can select from more than one mode of fire besides safe, typically, semi-auto and auto, but in the case of the newer M-16s, instead of auto, you have burst. There is actually a mod for the M-16 that gives you semi, burst, and auto.

 

[2ndAmendment]

You mention perceptions. Perceptions are not the truth. Quit bending over and start changing the perception. Fight the perceptions with facts. Fight the perceptions with logic. Fight the perceptions with history. If the perceptions win, we all lose.

Interesting that the Maryland General Assembly just passed a bill to make it a misdemeanor to knowingly lie to them in testimony. Seems that even the gun control freaks of the Maryland General Assembly didn't like being lied to. Last year CeaseFire brought a person to testify who lied about his credentials (claimed a phony masters and bachelor's degree). CeaseFire sent a letter to Speaker Busch and Senate President Miller claiming a police officer had died in 2000 of wounds received from an assault weapon. The truth is the officer died in 2000 but was wounded in 1977 from a firearm not on the list of proposed AWs to ban. Not only that, the officer managed to continue working until he retired in 1990 with 20 years of service and died after 10 years in retirement. During their testimony in the House, the CeaseFire people put on a tape of a machine gun which they claimed showed how rapidly an AW could fire (that was caught by a marine in uniform right there on the spot).

The anti-gun crowd doesn't deal in perception. They deal in deception.

 

[Bruzilla]

You're quite right 2A. I do expect to hear things like "full auto MP-5" coming from a common person. But I wasn't referring to a common person, I was referring to people who state that they are "experts" on firearms. When someone says "I've been a range safety officer for the NRA, Maryland Natural Resources Police, and Harris County Police Department over the last 11 years. I've seen it in all colors and breeds, fired lead with the best of them, both S.W.A.T. and NRP.", and also says "If I want to have a a full auto MP-5 and a box of grenades, I can get it." a have to doubt their credibility as an "expert."

I know these distinctions may sound trivial to some, but most gun control laws use trivial distinctions... clips become magazines, selective-fire becomes full-auto, Main Battle Rifle becomes Assault Weapon, Assault Weapon becomes machine gun... and the list goes on and on. I think it's in the best interests of every gun owner, in whatever forum they are discussing or writing about firearms in, to always make it a point to utilize the correct terminology. It'll be through the use of trivial distinctions that the next new gun grabbing bill will come out, so it's best to keep everyone honest.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I know these distinctions may sound trivial to some, but most gun control laws use trivial distinctions... clips become magazines, selective-fire becomes full-auto, Main Battle Rifle becomes Assault Weapon, Assault Weapon becomes machine gun... and the list goes on and on. I think it's in the best interests of every gun owner, in whatever forum they are discussing or writing about firearms in, to always make it a point to utilize the correct terminology. It'll be through the use of trivial distinctions that the next new gun grabbing bill will come out, so it's best to keep everyone honest.

 

[likitysplit]

You're quite right 2A. I do expect to hear things like "full auto MP-5" coming from a common person. But I wasn't referring to a common person, I was referring to people who state that they are "experts" on firearms. When someone says "I've been a range safety officer for the NRA, Maryland Natural Resources Police, and Harris County Police Department over the last 11 years. I've seen it in all colors and breeds, fired lead with the best of them, both S.W.A.T. and NRP.", and also says "If I want to have a a full auto MP-5 and a box of grenades, I can get it." a have to doubt their credibility as an "expert."

I know these distinctions may sound trivial to some, but most gun control laws use trivial distinctions... clips become magazines, selective-fire becomes full-auto, Main Battle Rifle becomes Assault Weapon, Assault Weapon becomes machine gun... and the list goes on and on. I think it's in the best interests of every gun owner, in whatever forum they are discussing or writing about firearms in, to always make it a point to utilize the correct terminology. It'll be through the use of trivial distinctions that the next new gun grabbing bill will come out, so it's best to keep everyone honest.

Guy, the argument is over. You are just a natural argumentative A s s h o l e by birth. It's obvious in all your posts. If I told you my occupation, my guess is you would be apologizing as quick as you type. I'll leave that for your imagination.

BTW, no one on this thread said they were an expert. You just like to debate.

I'm done with you................

 

[Bruzilla]

BTW, no one on this thread said they were an expert. You just like to debate.

I'm sorry! I had no idea that when you wrote "I've been a range safety officer for the NRA, Maryland Natural Resources Police, and Harris County Police Department over the last 11 years. I've seen it in all colors and breeds, fired lead with the best of them, both S.W.A.T. and NRP" as a means to provide some bonafides for you comments that you were actually saying you don't know poop.

 

[itsbob]

I know these distinctions may sound trivial to some, but most gun control laws use trivial distinctions... clips become magazines, selective-fire becomes full-auto, Main Battle Rifle becomes Assault Weapon, Assault Weapon becomes machine gun... and the list goes on and on. I think it's in the best interests of every gun owner, in whatever forum they are discussing or writing about firearms in, to always make it a point to utilize the correct terminology. It'll be through the use of trivial distinctions that the next new gun grabbing bill will come out, so it's best to keep everyone honest.

The big one is when they say they want to ban Automatice Weapons, and they don't define automatic weaopns.. Then come to find out, their definition of Auto is any gun that doesn't load with a bolt action.. my .45 cal handgun, not being a revolver by definition is an automatic. Remington 1100 shotgun would be an automatic by their definition and would be banned. The press is the worst, when they describe automatic weapons in their reporting you have NO idea what they are talking about, because they have NO idea what they are talking about. ..

 

[Bruzilla]

That's exactly right! Most people have no idea that the manufacture and/or importation of automatic and selective-fire weapons for private owners was banned by the 1985 NFA. And that was a selling point of the AWB - the press and Democrats made the case that "assault weapons", "automatic weapons" and/or "machine guns" were being banned, not semi-automatic firearms that we were specifically promised would not be banned when we (we being members of the NRA) screwed up and agreed not to oppose the 1985 NFA. Their intentional misuse of the terminology made it easier to sell the bill to the unwashed masses.

By the way... the correct title for an auto-loading handgun is a pistol. Many folks use "pistol" as a generic when it's not.