Iraqi voter turnout
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likitysplit
New Member
Perception
PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION.
The gun nutz still don't get it...............Gotta comprimise there 'Soldier of Fortune'............
ylexot said:you completely missed the point.
WOOOOOOOOOOSH
It doesn't matter what your gun looks like. The bullets come out the same speed and have the same capability to kill. So why do we need to ban cosmetic items? Key word is ASSAULT? A rose by any other name...
PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION, PUBLIC PERCEPTION.
The gun nutz still don't get it...............Gotta comprimise there 'Soldier of Fortune'............
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Likity...
I get your point; how someone views you and what they think you are doing is far more important to you than what you are actually doing. It is fine for you to take the 'yes massah' position in order to keep your table scraps.
I have a document that says I have the right to keep and bear arms. I am willing to concede I don't need a right to keep a main battle tank in the garage. I am willing to concede I do not need a full auto AK-47. I am willing to concede I do not need cases of grenades and surface to air missiles though the document says I have a right to ALL of them, THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.
To be perfectly honest, 2A views me the way I view you.
I am, however, not willing to concede to the vanities and, frankly, the ignorance, of ANYONE who is afraid of what my weapon LOOKS like. I will fight in the public arena against them. I will call them what they are; police statists.
If my concession of a huge amount of turf that very seriously limits my ability to do what they founding fathers intended, resist tyranny and foreign enemies, then they, my political opponents are WRONG and they are unreasonable and they are acting in a tyrannical fashion very much like what the founders were afraid of. I've compromised enough and I will not fear raising their ire. It is they who should not disturb my target shooting.
You are sounding like a slave who tells the other slaves not to read books around massah because it will scare him.
Stand up man. Be judged by the content of your character, not by the color of your gun.
I get your point; how someone views you and what they think you are doing is far more important to you than what you are actually doing. It is fine for you to take the 'yes massah' position in order to keep your table scraps.
I have a document that says I have the right to keep and bear arms. I am willing to concede I don't need a right to keep a main battle tank in the garage. I am willing to concede I do not need a full auto AK-47. I am willing to concede I do not need cases of grenades and surface to air missiles though the document says I have a right to ALL of them, THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.
To be perfectly honest, 2A views me the way I view you.
I am, however, not willing to concede to the vanities and, frankly, the ignorance, of ANYONE who is afraid of what my weapon LOOKS like. I will fight in the public arena against them. I will call them what they are; police statists.
If my concession of a huge amount of turf that very seriously limits my ability to do what they founding fathers intended, resist tyranny and foreign enemies, then they, my political opponents are WRONG and they are unreasonable and they are acting in a tyrannical fashion very much like what the founders were afraid of. I've compromised enough and I will not fear raising their ire. It is they who should not disturb my target shooting.
You are sounding like a slave who tells the other slaves not to read books around massah because it will scare him.
Stand up man. Be judged by the content of your character, not by the color of your gun.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
Likity, you're 100% correct in saying that you don't need an assault weapon to go hunting. Where you're 100% wrong is in thinking that you must use an assault weapon for hunting.
Here's what's in my gun rack:
M-1 Garand
M-1 Carbine
L1-A1/FN/FAL
H&K G-3
CETME
AR-15A2
S&W M-19
Beretta M96 (Great pistol as you know)
Walther P-38
Colt M-1911A1
Erma EM-1 Carbine
Marlin 22LR
Most of these guns I have had for years and have never been fired. I buy them as a collector, not a shooter. Of my assault weapons only the AR-15 and the L1-A1 have been fired. If I want to buy these guns and let them collect dust in my gun cabinet, why can't I do that? If I want to buy them and shoot them at the range, why can't I? I've never been a hunter and have no interest in hunting. I am someone who was raised by an NRA safety instructor and who has been around guns most of his life. Many of us collect things that we never use for their intended purpose, we just want to have them.
If you're going to make the argument that we can't have things that can't be used for a particular purpose, you're going to have to extend that argument out to thousands of other items as well. No more cars that can exceed the speed limit, no more large personal vehicles (why does some one need a 15-passenger van? Let them take the bus), No more boats except for fishermen and people who live in islands, etc.
Here's what's in my gun rack:
M-1 Garand
M-1 Carbine
L1-A1/FN/FAL
H&K G-3
CETME
AR-15A2
S&W M-19
Beretta M96 (Great pistol as you know)
Walther P-38
Colt M-1911A1
Erma EM-1 Carbine
Marlin 22LR
Most of these guns I have had for years and have never been fired. I buy them as a collector, not a shooter. Of my assault weapons only the AR-15 and the L1-A1 have been fired. If I want to buy these guns and let them collect dust in my gun cabinet, why can't I do that? If I want to buy them and shoot them at the range, why can't I? I've never been a hunter and have no interest in hunting. I am someone who was raised by an NRA safety instructor and who has been around guns most of his life. Many of us collect things that we never use for their intended purpose, we just want to have them.
If you're going to make the argument that we can't have things that can't be used for a particular purpose, you're going to have to extend that argument out to thousands of other items as well. No more cars that can exceed the speed limit, no more large personal vehicles (why does some one need a 15-passenger van? Let them take the bus), No more boats except for fishermen and people who live in islands, etc.
You don't get it. The Second Amendment is not about hunting.likitysplit said:
Compromise gets nothing but your rights taken away. It happens time after time. Take a little at a time. Welfare is against the Constitution. Period. The congress started little by little introducing "good ideas" despite the Constitution. Now look what we have; a very socialist country.likitysplit said:
You are a "pink" gun person at best. Somewhere between the Brady bunch and the NRA which are (I'm a life member) a bunch of pansys when it comes to really protecting the Second Amendment.
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likitysplit
New Member
Larry Gude said:
Listen, if you can't understand how the public, both pro-gun & anti-gun, view the guy at the range that opens the case and assembles a .50 cal with a scope you can see into the future with, then I'm sorry you don't get it fella. If I want to have a a full auto MP-5 and a box of grenades, I can get it. SF RPG, not impossible.....BUT........is this the type of iron I want to parade around and say........"look at me, I'm defending my 2A rights, look at me I CAN and DO have and own these items and I can do any damn thing I wish, the good letter says so...."
If you want to possess these items, great!!! go for it. BUT, the perception by the GENERAL PUBLIC is that you are a fukking gun nut. Guy, I've been a range safety officer for the NRA, Maryland Natural Resources Police, and Harris County Police Department over the last 11 years. I've seen it in all colors and breeds, fired lead with the best of them, both S.W.A.T. and NRP.
UNTIL YOU STAND DOWN A BIT and side with popular concern........YOU WILL BE THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT IS bringing the train down.
Do you think the general public saw David Koresh as a good 'ole law abiding citizen that had his 2A rights infringed upon? NO, they saw him as a Goddamn whacko that had a arsenal of weapons that he had no business with. .50 cals blowing through walls, killing the ATF agents. Let me guess, you side with him right, because he was defending his 2A rights? If he'd had let's say a couple of pump shotguns and a few pistols, his ass would have been smoked by the ATF agents packin' submac's. Instead, it was like the invasion at Normandy for the agents.
Believe me bud, I do stand up. I stand up tall. But if you stand up too tall then you'll get your Goddamn head blown off by the sniper hiding in the palms.
If you want AW, then get them. Just don't flaunt it. If your a S.E.A.L., then don't tell anyone. Work for the C.I.A in black ops?....don't say a word....
Why, because when it's all said and done, and we really do have to overthrow the government, pal, guns won't even be in the picture......I promise............
likity, You do understand that most of the time less that 50% of the eligible voters vote? Do you understand that many of those that don't vote don't because they believe that the federal government has long exceeded its powers according to the Constitution or that none of the candidates represent their view? Even in the last election which was a tremendous turnout by U.S. standards, only 60% turned out and Bush was only elected by about 50.73% or 30.438%.
Wake up before we are like the U.K. or Australia and the only gun you can own is a pellet gun.
You sound like a cop. Some cops are good. Some are terrible. You ... sound like you are afraid someone might be able to defend themselves against police abuse of power.
Wake up before we are like the U.K. or Australia and the only gun you can own is a pellet gun.
You sound like a cop. Some cops are good. Some are terrible. You ... sound like you are afraid someone might be able to defend themselves against police abuse of power.
likitysplit
New Member
2ndAmendment said:
2A,
I realize that.........and since overthrowing the Governemnt isn't really a popular subject these days, your either a collector or hunter.
If you want it, go get it. I own many guns and pre-ban mags for several guns that no way in hell will I list on this forum, BUT..........even if they were outlawed, I'd still own them. It's my right. I will do what I believe is right. I dont' need the goverment to tell me. All I'm saying is I'm opposed to walking into Oshmans or Wal-mart and being able to purchase an AR-15 for and clone of a military issue weapon. (notice I said weapon) They are sold as weapons...
I buy firearms that can be used as a weapon if neccessary. Don't you think it's a crying shame that 6 year old kids can go buy a mach MP-5 that shoots the soft plastic pellets? It's sad guy that America has glamorized this B.S. There is no turning back now. The days of buying a Red Ryder for little Jake are over pal..............now he wants a M16 with a long mag. Just because you and I are raised by a different generation doesn't mean that the new generation can handle the resposibility.
In teaching hunter safety, you should see the posture of some of these kids when I hand them the .410(unloaded) for their first live fire excercise, they mount it on their hip like they are rapping off a box on the m60. TV, Media, it has ####ed the whole system.
Coffee is for sale at a local store..................
likitysplit
New Member
2ndAmendment said:
Hmmmm, Interesting 2A, no comment about David Koresh.........?
No, I don't. I grew up playing cowboys and Indians and soldier. I had a mock up of a BAR when I was 8 or 9 and was the envy of all the boys in the neighborhood. Try to buy a two gun cowboy set now. It is almost impossible. That is the shame.likitysplit said:
I was taught to shoot when I was 8. I was taught gun safety. We used to take our guns to school so we could hunt before and after school. There were after school fights. You laid you gun down and you fought. No one thought of using a gun in a fight.
What is wrong today is a bunch of 60's hippys are running many of the newspapers and other media outlets and are the politicians of today. They still have their collective heads where the sun does not shine. They have demonized firearms. What we need are shooter safety courses in school.
I don't know enough about Koresh's politics to comment as to whether I support his position of the feds.likitysplit said:
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Dude...
I am so not reading you.
All I've said is that it is TOTAL HORESHIT to support a line of thinking that goes;
"If it looks mean it must be banned".
I've listed a mile of compromises I am happy with and you happen to have a SHTF arsenal?
And I don't 'get it'?
I was making home made bombs from firecrackers as a kid and we all had BB guns, pellet guns, plastic guns that made noise and shot little yellow disks and peas. The shame, to me, is the modern paranoia.
In any event, I think you got me all wrong and you, I'm not getting at all.
Oh well.
I am so not reading you.
All I've said is that it is TOTAL HORESHIT to support a line of thinking that goes;
"If it looks mean it must be banned".
I've listed a mile of compromises I am happy with and you happen to have a SHTF arsenal?
And I don't 'get it'?
I was making home made bombs from firecrackers as a kid and we all had BB guns, pellet guns, plastic guns that made noise and shot little yellow disks and peas. The shame, to me, is the modern paranoia.
In any event, I think you got me all wrong and you, I'm not getting at all.
Oh well.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
As far as Koresh goes...
...he and his crew were a bunch of nut balls minding their own business.
To my knowledge, they didn't even have any illegal weapons, just perfectly legal semi autos. Everything I've read was that Koresh could have been taken down any time, nice and easy and quiet on any of his numerous unarmed trips into town.
I never heard he had .50 cal either. I've also read that at least two of the Fed KIA's were friendly fire.
In any event, even if they were in violation of federal firearms law and they had full auto weapons then the Feds made even greater hash of the whole thing provoking the assault.
That disaster was a pure 100% Federal screw up.
...he and his crew were a bunch of nut balls minding their own business.
To my knowledge, they didn't even have any illegal weapons, just perfectly legal semi autos. Everything I've read was that Koresh could have been taken down any time, nice and easy and quiet on any of his numerous unarmed trips into town.
I never heard he had .50 cal either. I've also read that at least two of the Fed KIA's were friendly fire.
In any event, even if they were in violation of federal firearms law and they had full auto weapons then the Feds made even greater hash of the whole thing provoking the assault.
That disaster was a pure 100% Federal screw up.
likitysplit
New Member
Larry Gude said:
Larry,
Our thinking is probably a lot more similiar than we both will be able to convey here. I just think modern day media has made it glamorous to pack heat that looks threatening. The movies today, the 'idols' of today's youth. They all possess pieces of metal that were designed to tear through human flesh.
The model 870 was made for the working man to hunt with..............the military and police adopted it for use to tear through human flesh....... My point is that, if in fact these AW are leading our youth down the wrong path, shouldn't we as mature American adults take the lead and compromise. Hey believe me, I own several on the 'list' BUT, you won't see me at a public range with them. I don't like the exposure.
Sooner or later you've got to stop fighting windmills.
Enjoyed the heated debate here. Both You, 2A and Godzilla seem like upstanding gents that I'd want on my squad anyday.
And 2A, if you could bring your guns to school, holy sh!t, what, where, and WHEN.....my God, can you imagine if that happened these days. The school supply list would include a turniquet and first aid kid...........
P.G. County in the late 50's. 22's and shotguns.likitysplit said:
If we do, there won't be anything to fight the windmills with.likitysplit said:
likitysplit
New Member
2ndAmendment said:
Nice one.............
Larry Gude
Strung Out
I'd like to think so...
...but it is my ever so humble opinion that the limits we have today, no full auto, no explosives, which dates back to the 30's are very reasonable. It is my opinion that if Hollywood is going to A, glamorize a MAC-10 and then B. demonize it when street gangs start using it, then they should be fully allowed to have that fight with themselves.
The 94 AWB needs to be discussed ad naseum to illustrate how absurd it is.
The fight is in law enforcement, not with the law abiding. The fight is with Rosie O'Donnel who may stigmatize me all she wants as long as I may take her to task for insisting her child is worth protecting with firearms and mine is not.
The fight is against social maniacs like Charles Schumer who support sueing gun manufacturers out of existence.
Public opinion is to be contested for.
...but it is my ever so humble opinion that the limits we have today, no full auto, no explosives, which dates back to the 30's are very reasonable. It is my opinion that if Hollywood is going to A, glamorize a MAC-10 and then B. demonize it when street gangs start using it, then they should be fully allowed to have that fight with themselves.
The 94 AWB needs to be discussed ad naseum to illustrate how absurd it is.
The fight is in law enforcement, not with the law abiding. The fight is with Rosie O'Donnel who may stigmatize me all she wants as long as I may take her to task for insisting her child is worth protecting with firearms and mine is not.
The fight is against social maniacs like Charles Schumer who support sueing gun manufacturers out of existence.
Public opinion is to be contested for.
ylexot
Super Genius
OOOOOOOH, I get it. It's ok for you to have these weapons, you just don't want me to be able to get them.likitysplit said:
BTW, I'm not "Soldier of Fortune" as you called me. Here's my list:
Beretta 92 Vertec
Remington 870 Super-Mag
Short list, don't you think? Even looks a little like yours, but much smaller. I am by no means a "gun nut". I'm not a hunter. I grew up in a house where guns were forbidden. My mom didn't even like us having water guns. When I was in college, one of my friends liked to go shooting (pistols at the range) and got me into it. Several years later after shooting range pistols and friends' pistols, I decided to get my own. What I found was that buying a pistol in MD has gotten extremely difficult. Anything new has to have an internal trigger lock (only 6 guns made at the time complied) and it had to have the "ballistic fingerprinting" (which we spent millions on and has yet to solve a crime). Basically, in my complacence, the govenment took away my rights. So, I started to learn more and became a life member of the NRA. Not because I'm a "gun nut", but because I am seeing the abuses of the government. I am seeing my rights being taken away...slowly...quietly.
You mention perceptions. Perceptions are not the truth. Quit bending over and start changing the perception. Fight the perceptions with facts. Fight the perceptions with logic. Fight the perceptions with history. If the perceptions win, we all lose.
Oh, and the 870 is because I also like shooting skeet.