Is breaking your wedding vows...

[FromTexas]

This topic comes up all the time on this board, there must be a billion post on the subject, but as far as the article, should the lady have been fired? No, the issue is private and does not reflect on her position or ability to do her job, so Boeing was wrong in that act, IMO.

What about if the woman was using her work at Boeing as in excuse to be stepping on her mate? For instance, what if she claimed she was always working late, had meetings, etc... What about when her husband shows up at work when she is working late, discovers she isn't working really, and causes a scene... or worse yet, flips out killing people? That is a very extreme example I realize, but nobody can claim their personal life doesn't effect their work. If you are having large problems in your personal life, it will carry over into your work.

 

[vraiblonde]

I said "The more responsibility and power you have over other people the more it matters "

I don't care if my next-door-neighbor is getting some strange. It has nothing to do with me and I don't have a need to trust them beyond normal interaction. But cheating is a character issue - if you'll lie and cheat in one area, you'll do it in others as well. It shows poor morals and ethics. And while I don't concern myself with the morals of random people, I DO care when that person can affect my personal well-being or my income.

As an aside, I find Cohen's piece reprehensible because he goes on and on about how this is a "love affair", making it sound like this is two single people who fell in love, and doesn't tell you the real problem until the very end, and does it with one tiny, easy to miss word - extramarital.

 

[Pegster710]

So, if cheating is cheating, and marriage is forever, are there ever circumstances when divorce is acceptable?

In the Bible it says something to the effect (correct me if I'm wrong here) of: you should stay married to your spouse as long as they want to remain married to you - even if they are not living within the "laws of God". But, if your spouse leaves you and no longer wants to be with you, it is OK to divorce.

Now, at that point, can you re-marry? And what if your spouse is locked up - for a long time. What's the obligation to that spouse (this is assuming the marriage was on the rocks before the jail term)?

 

[Kizzy]

What about if the woman was using her work at Boeing as in excuse to be stepping on her mate? For instance, what if she claimed she was always working late, had meetings, etc... What about when her husband shows up at work when she is working late, discovers she isn't working really, and causes a scene... or worse yet, flips out killing people? That is a very extreme example I realize, but nobody can claim their personal life doesn't effect their work. If you are having large problems in your personal life, it will carry over into your work.

Very true - but now we are talking about incidences as a result of the person's actions, and in that case, I still do not think that would be enough grounds to fire somebody.

And yes again - our personal lives do and can cause problems in our jobs, but that is true about any personal problem(s) someone may have. I know if I have something bothering me, I will work harder to keep my mind off of it.

 

[Wickedwrench]

But without team work and communication it will fail.

Sometimes the definitions of the aforementioned things changes. No way in hell to keep it together then.:shrug:

 

[citysherry]

So, if cheating is cheating, and marriage is forever, are there ever circumstances when divorce is acceptable?

In the Bible it says something to the effect (correct me if I'm wrong here) of: you should stay married to your spouse as long as they want to remain married to you - even if they are not living within the "laws of God". But, if your spouse leaves you and no longer wants to be with you, it is OK to divorce.

Now, at that point, can you re-marry? And what if your spouse is locked up - for a long time. What's the obligation to that spouse (this is assuming the marriage was on the rocks before the jail term)?

Normal aches and pains indicate life, not death - nearly every married couple at one point or another faces deep disappointment. Divorce usually doesn't solve a couples unhappiness so they can either struggle to get their love and happiness back or struggle to live without it. However, what I don't consider normal aches, pains and disappointment and would make me consider divorce would be - adultery, abuse (physical and substance) and abandonment.

 

[vraiblonde]

Very true - but now we are talking about incidences as a result of the person's actions, and in that case, I still do not think that would be enough grounds to fire somebody.

Here's the problem:

Many Boeing employees have a security clearance. Having an extramarital affair jeopardizes that clearance because it leaves you open to blackmail and all sorts of unintended consequences.

It doesn't say that the woman was fired. It says the CEO - who, in his own words, "violated" his own standards and "used poor judgement" - was fired. To that confession of unethical behavior and show of remorse, Richard Cohen says "Oh shut up!"

I'll bet that CEO's wife is spitting bullets if she read Cohen's account of her husband "getting hit with Cupid's arrow", because I'll bet she doesn't find this incident so sweet and romantic.

 

[Kizzy]

Let’s face it, 50 percent of all marriages fail, out of the remaining 50 percent, at least 1/2 of them have "stepped" out, what is left? The few remaining marriages that have been completely free of infidelity, doesn’t leave much. So things like this happen often, and I bet a great number of them are in the workplace.

Vrai, I have seen in company handbooks where it states that employees are not allowed to date/screw/bang/whatever each other. (I'm sure it is more professionally worded than that) but if that is the case, then the employee(s) broke a rule and deserved to be fired.

Back in the early 90’s, I witnessed the most horrible domestic dispute among 3 employees over infidelity and it was ugly. It took place in the hallway right outside my office door. One of the married guys in the office was fooling around with his co-workers fiancée, everyone was transferred out to break up the trio, and to avoid any further conflict. These people were armed. So it was scary.

As far as the blackmail thing, etc. etc. I guess there could be problems if the person is in a position to receive benefits because of the “sexual relationship” they are having with another employee, depending on the positions of the people involved.

 

[dems4me]

Vrai, I have seen in company handbooks that state that employees are not allowed to date/screw/bang/whatever each other. (I'm sure it is more professionally worded than that)



Sexual fraternization :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

As far as the blackmail thing, etc. etc. I guess there could be problems if the person is in a position to receive benefits because of the “sexual relationship” they are having with another employee, depending on the positions of the people involved.

How about this scenario:

Cookie tells her best girlfriend that she's going ballistic with the Boeing CEO. Cookie's girlfriend tells her boyfriend, who happens to work for a competing aeronautics corporation. Boyfriend tells his boss, hoping to score some brownie points. Or, better yet, tells the CEO that if he doesn't X, he'll tell his boss or the wife or the world.

Happens all the time. This is why a lot of our politicians do some of the crazy things they do - because their little secret got out to the wrong person and it becomes an "or else" situation.

 

[dems4me]

This is why a lot of our politicians do some of the crazy things they do - because their little secret got out to the wrong person and it becomes an "or else" situation.

and just as a little nervous insurance, take a good thorough course on semantics

 

[Kizzy]

How about this scenario:

Cookie tells her best girlfriend that she's going ballistic with the Boeing CEO. Cookie's girlfriend tells her boyfriend, who happens to work for a competing aeronautics corporation. Boyfriend tells his boss, hoping to score some brownie points. Or, better yet, tells the CEO that if he doesn't X, he'll tell his boss or the wife or the world.

Happens all the time. This is why a lot of our politicians do some of the crazy things they do - because their little secret got out to the wrong person and it becomes an "or else" situation.

Yep - that would be a problem. That is why I said - it would depend on the position.

 

[dems4me]

That is why I said - it would depend on the position.

Ahhaaa!!... already well-versed in semantics

 

[vraiblonde]

and just as a little nervous insurance, take a good thorough course on semantics

Why?

 

[Scrappy]

Why?

She was put on this earth to confuse people.

 

[dems4me]

Why?

Oh helll.. I suck at this... I was trying to be funny -- you mentioned politics and sexual affairs and coverups... naturally Clinton came to mind... and I mentioned semantics... oh.... :shakesheadthenlooksdown: never mind...

 

[vraiblonde]

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>se·man·tics n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)

1. Linguistics. The study or science of meaning in language.
2. Linguistics. The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. Also called semasiology.
3. The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form: <CITE>We're basically agreed; let's not quibble over semantics.</CITE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Sorry, Dems - I'm just not getting it. Or are you talking about what the meaning of "is" is? ossiblelightbulb:

 

[Ken King]

Oh it's definately only Susan's and my business. But cheating is cheating. The vows that Susan and I used in our ceremony are sacred to us and there is nothing in this world that could make either of us violate them. Together we collaborated and wrote them so they are even more special to us.

This was our commitment to one another.

With all my heart I take you to be my wife/husband. I will love you through the good and the bad, through the joy and sorrow. I will try to be understanding and I will trust in you completely. I will make you a part of me and in turn become a part of you. Together we will face all of life’s experiences and share in one another’s dreams and goals. We will be equal partners in an open, honest relationship throughout the years, forsaking all others.

 

[pvineswinger]

Oops, I misread. I choose cheating and being responsible are incompatible. I didn't realize it was in the negative until just now.

I do not think of someone as a responsible person, and thus worthy of higher stature, who cheats. You can not be both a responsible person and cheat on your mate.

I think this is the first post of yours I've ever agreed with.

 

[pvineswinger]

Cheating is cheating. It's another form of lying. If you are a liar, you should not have a security clearance. Honesty/Integrity are not only a significant part of relationships, but a significant part of life in general. If you cheat on your spouse/partner, who you supposedly love and care for, how can anyone trust you with national security?