Jehovah's Witness mother of twins refuses blood transfusion then dies.

[Go G-Men]

You're quite flip about your opinion. What do you think about people who think all religions are a form of brainwash?

I dig em

 

[tommyjones]

But what was the offending action in that passage? Birth Control itself? Screwing his brother's widow? not wanting your children to be declared by law as belonging to someone else? or defying your father who ordered you to screw your brother's widow and get her knocked up?

its pretty obvious that spilling the seed was the offending act, there were lots of other stories about adultry in the bible that didn't include this act.

Anyway, it just goes to prove the point that you believe what you want as it suits you.

this lady believed with a lot more conviction than most.
Most choose to deny the meaning of some passages in order for their religion to fit their lifestyle.

again i say if you dont truely believe, or believe you know better, then what is the point?

 

[Dymphna]

its pretty obvious that spilling the seed was the offending act, there were lots of other stories about adultry in the bible that didn't include this act.

Anyway, it just goes to prove the point that you believe what you want as it suits you.

this lady believed with a lot more conviction than most.
Most choose to deny the meaning of some passages in order for their religion to fit their lifestyle.

again i say if you dont truely believe, or believe you know better, then what is the point?

Yes, spilling his seed was the offending action, I agree, but is it because of the act of birth control itself, or because he defied his father, which would be a violation of the commandments and therefore the real crime.

Well you'd have to read the verses to find that out


According to Genesis 38:10 its the thing which he did, that displeased the Lord. Since the actions he took (screwing his Sis in law) were commanded by Judah, the only act that could have displeased the Lord would have been spilling his seed.

The act that Onan committed is also codified in the word Onanism, an older term for masturbation or "spilling of seed," that derives from his name.

The rest of your argument is moot, since Levirate Marriage was a condoned practice, by believers and "God", you interject your own morality about screwing your brothers wife, against the practices praised in the Bible.

I agree, that the issue here isn't sleeping with the widow, because he was obeying his father in doing so.

It was an example that is used to condemn one of the practices of Birth control (which pulling out is).

And its something thats been propagated from the start of the Christian religion, this from A.D. 195 written by the Clement of Alexandria who Authored The Instructor of Children

And still used by the Catholic Faith (Link)

I would need to see a lot more examples of God striking folks down for the use of birth control before I'd be willing to accept that that one passage is proof that it offends God. But my main point is that ANY religion can pick an choose passages in the Bible and twist and interpret them to suit their own agenda.

There is an old proverb that says, "Even the Devil can quote the Bible."

 

[tommyjones]

Yes, spilling his seed was the offending action, I agree, but is it because of the act of birth control itself, or because he defied his father, which would be a violation of the commandments and therefore the real crime.

I agree, that the issue here isn't sleeping with the widow, because he was obeying his father in doing so.

I would need to see a lot more examples of God striking folks down for the use of birth control before I'd be willing to accept that that one passage is proof that it offends God. But my main point is that ANY religion can pick an choose passages in the Bible and twist and interpret them to suit their own agenda.

There is an old proverb that says, "Even the Devil can quote the Bible."

its funny that you need more than one passage to prove something you dont agree with, but only an inferance to prove something you agree with.

 

[Dymphna]

Well 2a calls me a Demon, or used to.

And i'm not the one stating that the Genesis passage was condemned by God, thats the stance of the Catholic Church going back to (at least) AD 195 when the Clement took that stance.

I think its all ooga booga

The Passage was condemned by God?

And just because the Church decided on some interpretation almost 2000 years ago, that means they are right?

Don't get me wrong, I AM Catholic, but there is a little known passage a priest once showed me in the official Church doctrine (don't ask me to find it, I don't have that kinda time) that says basically that an educated, informed person doesn't have to be ordained clergy to understand and interpret theological tracts, even if that interpretation goes against official doctrine. And such a person, cannot be condemned for coming to their own conclusions.

Therefore, I have to right to think for myself, and still be true to my religion, regardless of what some long dead pope has to say on the matter.

 

[Dymphna]

Ok and its nice to know you are free to think for yourself, but that diverts attention from the fact that the Catholic church is the one using the act in Genesis 28 as an example of birth control being against Gods word.

Actually, this whole line of conversation diverts from the fact that many denominations take isolated passages from the Bible and interpret them to mean what they choose them to mean. And they go to the people of their congregation and put those interpretations out there as "God's Word" and make claims that anyone who goes against what they claim as "God's Word" will suffer from unspeakable punishments, be it in this life or in an afterlife of some sort. But the fact remains that the words are almost always open to alternative interpretations. A religion that doesn't allow for alternative interpretations is a religion on a shaky foundation.

 

[Dymphna]

I don't mean on the big things...those better be obvious. I mean on the little things. BC is really a minor consideration, I mean really, not one of them has a 100% success rate, if God wants you to have a kid, you don't have much choice in the matter.

But the most successful religions have lots of disagreements within the ranks. They are forever re-evaluation their positions on things. In the end, they may show a united front to the world, but behind closed doors... Heck, the whole reason that papal elections in the Catholic Church are conducted under strict secrecy is because they don't want the general public to know how much they argue over things. Every few years, the Catholic Bishops in the US get together and discuss how much they can deviate from the way things have always been and not get their butts kicked out of Rome.

AND aren't there 4 major schools of Judaism? They are certainly arguing over interpretations of things.

 

[mAlice]

I don't mean on the big things...those better be obvious. I mean on the little things. BC is really a minor consideration, I mean really, not one of them has a 100% success rate, if God wants you to have a kid, you don't have much choice in the matter.

But the most successful religions have lots of disagreements within the ranks. They are forever re-evaluation their positions on things. In the end, they may show a united front to the world, but behind closed doors... Heck, the whole reason that papal elections in the Catholic Church are conducted under strict secrecy is because they don't want the general public to know how much they argue over things. Every few years, the Catholic Bishops in the US get together and discuss how much they can deviate from the way things have always been and not get their butts kicked out of Rome.

AND aren't there 4 major schools of Judaism? They are certainly arguing over interpretations of things.

The Watchtower Society is known for changing its beliefs and policies from time to time. Witnesses believe that only the Society has "The Truth," but that their knowledge of it is imperfect. Jesus guides them toward ultimate knowledge of Jehovah's teachings over time. The accuracy of their teachings will increase as Armageddon draws closer.

 

[mAlice]

The Watchtower Society is known for changing its beliefs and policies from time to time. Witnesses believe that only the Society has "The Truth," but that their knowledge of it is imperfect. Jesus guides them toward ultimate knowledge of Jehovah's teachings over time. The accuracy of their teachings will increase as Armageddon draws closer.

Jehovah's Witness... 11-07-2007 02:44 PM Nice cut & paste. Debating Jehovah's Witnesses: 10 Things You Don't Know About Jehovah's Witnesses See #10

Forgot the link. Thanks for providing it.

 

[tommyjones]

I don't mean on the big things...those better be obvious. I mean on the little things. BC is really a minor consideration, I mean really, not one of them has a 100% success rate, if God wants you to have a kid, you don't have much choice in the matter.

you can always abort
:justsayin: