Larry's not giving me good conversation on this. His mind is so slammed shut when it comes to grassy knolls that I think he was in on it. 
JFK Poll
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
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Kain99
Guest
It was the South Koreans....
donbarzini
Well-Known Member
If y'all are REALLY interested in this subject; find the book written by Robert S. Anson. The book is called: "They've Killed the President.". And yes, Buddy, he did work at the depository.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
If you like...
...all the UFO/Big Foot/Crop circle style non-sense that surrounds Jacks murder DON'T read "Live by the Sword" Gus Russo (Baltimorean BTW)
There was plenty of 'conspiracy' surrounding JFK's assassination. It's just not the juicy mob/LBJ/Cuba/military industrial complex/Bildaburger/Tri lateral Commish/Bert and Ernie stuff so many people seem to NEED it to be.
It's the run of the mill CYA. When #### goes wrong at the top, and assassinations of the President qualify here, there is an institutional need to circle the wagons. Read the book, you'll feel much better.
That said, if it was the mob, Bobby would have truly declared war. Or Maybe Bob Kennedy would just sit there as AG and do nothing after the murder of the most important person in his life?
If it was one of the mystical groups of the hyper powerful and hyper rich then how come the Redskins keep losing? Well?
Jack was already escalating things in Vietnam, so, no need for Lockhead to rub him out if business is already growing.
Castro? The Kennedys spent all their free not cheating on the wife time trying to off him or come up with some other excuse to knock him out. We'd have declared war in a minute and Russia would have let it go. Kruschev loved making Jack #### his pants. He didn't want him gone.
LBJ? And then explain why he gave up the office after one full term? "Hey! Maybe I'd like to be President so I'll kill the man between me and the job! ...5 years later. "I don't like the job so I'll quit!". No one is any wiser. Happens all the time. For the love of Christ we know just about every last detail of the attempts on Hitler and he killed the SOB's right away!
I've never understood why it is so hard to accept that one determined person could assassinate the President of his own volition and motivation.
I've never understood why, pick your head conspirator, would need to send Jack Ruby to off Oswald is such a hamfisted, overt way. These people presumably already control everything else. Why not a "heart attack" in his cell? Why beg for suspicion? Why the perfect crime and then some bumbling loser comes plodding in, 'blam!" ??? Tooks his secrets to his grave to, huh?
Warren Commision: "We've found that Jack and Bobby repeatedly tried to find ways, in violation of US and international law, to kill and/or overthrow a foreign leader, Fidel Castro of Cuba."
Oops. Can't print that just yet.
Oh yeah. So, the head of this great government, Jack, can't even whack a low level caveman on a #### poor island in a state of almost anarchy 90 miles form the border and EVERYBODY knows they were trying, yet somehow, Jack goes lights out and all we get are these nuts on TV, a new one every few years..."My husband was highly agitated that night and I think this and that and the other..."
Show me memoires from RFK or LBJ or Warren or the 'other' shooters or their boss(s)...
And let me know when you get to the part about the Redskins.
...all the UFO/Big Foot/Crop circle style non-sense that surrounds Jacks murder DON'T read "Live by the Sword" Gus Russo (Baltimorean BTW)
There was plenty of 'conspiracy' surrounding JFK's assassination. It's just not the juicy mob/LBJ/Cuba/military industrial complex/Bildaburger/Tri lateral Commish/Bert and Ernie stuff so many people seem to NEED it to be.
It's the run of the mill CYA. When #### goes wrong at the top, and assassinations of the President qualify here, there is an institutional need to circle the wagons. Read the book, you'll feel much better.
That said, if it was the mob, Bobby would have truly declared war. Or Maybe Bob Kennedy would just sit there as AG and do nothing after the murder of the most important person in his life?
If it was one of the mystical groups of the hyper powerful and hyper rich then how come the Redskins keep losing? Well?
Jack was already escalating things in Vietnam, so, no need for Lockhead to rub him out if business is already growing.
Castro? The Kennedys spent all their free not cheating on the wife time trying to off him or come up with some other excuse to knock him out. We'd have declared war in a minute and Russia would have let it go. Kruschev loved making Jack #### his pants. He didn't want him gone.
LBJ? And then explain why he gave up the office after one full term? "Hey! Maybe I'd like to be President so I'll kill the man between me and the job! ...5 years later. "I don't like the job so I'll quit!". No one is any wiser. Happens all the time. For the love of Christ we know just about every last detail of the attempts on Hitler and he killed the SOB's right away!
I've never understood why it is so hard to accept that one determined person could assassinate the President of his own volition and motivation.
I've never understood why, pick your head conspirator, would need to send Jack Ruby to off Oswald is such a hamfisted, overt way. These people presumably already control everything else. Why not a "heart attack" in his cell? Why beg for suspicion? Why the perfect crime and then some bumbling loser comes plodding in, 'blam!" ??? Tooks his secrets to his grave to, huh?
Warren Commision: "We've found that Jack and Bobby repeatedly tried to find ways, in violation of US and international law, to kill and/or overthrow a foreign leader, Fidel Castro of Cuba."
Oops. Can't print that just yet.
Oh yeah. So, the head of this great government, Jack, can't even whack a low level caveman on a #### poor island in a state of almost anarchy 90 miles form the border and EVERYBODY knows they were trying, yet somehow, Jack goes lights out and all we get are these nuts on TV, a new one every few years..."My husband was highly agitated that night and I think this and that and the other..."
Show me memoires from RFK or LBJ or Warren or the 'other' shooters or their boss(s)...
And let me know when you get to the part about the Redskins.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Oh ####...
...I forgot about that one!
That changes everything...
He didn't do it either.
...I forgot about that one!
That changes everything...
He didn't do it either.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
STAND BY!!!!
...we may have the truth here in a few minutes...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031118/D7UT5SUO0.html
:
...we may have the truth here in a few minutes...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20031118/D7UT5SUO0.html
:
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Excellent post, Larry.
I think conspiracy theories are some people's way of dealing with emotional trauma. I wasn't around in 1963 (I'm 37 years old), but I suspect it was very scary for people to realize that even the President wasn't safe from some lone gunman. There's a randomness to life and death that can be difficult to accept for some. It's much easier for them to accept that events like that were engineered by some shadowy cabal. It helps them rationalize their feelings of powerlessness in the hands of fate.
I think conspiracy theories are some people's way of dealing with emotional trauma. I wasn't around in 1963 (I'm 37 years old), but I suspect it was very scary for people to realize that even the President wasn't safe from some lone gunman. There's a randomness to life and death that can be difficult to accept for some. It's much easier for them to accept that events like that were engineered by some shadowy cabal. It helps them rationalize their feelings of powerlessness in the hands of fate.
See? I TOLD you guys he was in on it. It's now commonly accepted that Sirhan Sirhan wasn't some "lone nut". I don't believe Marilyn Monroe committed suicide. And I certainly don't believe Jackie married Ari for love.
"Lone nuts" tend not to be very effective. Hinckley, Jr. Squeaky Fromme. These are your typical "lone nuts". Not very organized, not very effective, totally nutso.
Any sane person knows the ramifications of assassinating a President. And, by all accounts, Oswald wasn't insane. In fact, he was highly intelligent.
IF he acted alone:
- WHY didn't the Warren Commission order a full investigation?
- WHY the cover-up?
- WHY so many witnesses that say the bullet came from the front and blew out the back of his head, including the doctors that worked on him?
- WHY was Jack Ruby so sure Oswald was the killer, when the cops weren't even sure?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Here's the thing...
...the President of the United States is a big wheel. Perhaps THE big wheel unless the world really is run by people who can off the President and get away with it.
If so, WHAT was gained by this incredibly risky move? By whom? Is their power so great that it WASN'T a risky move?
I think we all agree that a President doesn't do a damn thing worth mentioning unless they have the approval of the House AND the Senate.
Yes he is THE President but he is ONLY the President. If you look at JFK's Presidency, NOTHING happened that CHANGED anything of note with his killing.
The Soviets STILL got out of Cuba.
Vietnam was already escalating.
Huge tax cuts were enacted and stayed.
LBJ's 'Great Society' were all pretty much off of Jacks drawing board.
That's the biggest conspiracy I can find, the biggest 'thing'; the Great Society. Jacks death motivates a stubborn Congress.
Follow me here. World ruling elites would want the masses sedated enough to not be a problem but still functional to work, right?
How to 'enslave' the working poor of the US? How to make them stuck in poverty and labor?
Viola: The Great Society. By any measure, it put millions of people directly under the thumb of the US Government and set a world pattern.
"If it 'works' in the US..."
Other than that, Castro was left alone which supports the un-published findings of the Warren commish: We can't be running covert ops from the White House".
To which Ronald Reagan was heard to say "yeah!"
...the President of the United States is a big wheel. Perhaps THE big wheel unless the world really is run by people who can off the President and get away with it.
If so, WHAT was gained by this incredibly risky move? By whom? Is their power so great that it WASN'T a risky move?
I think we all agree that a President doesn't do a damn thing worth mentioning unless they have the approval of the House AND the Senate.
Yes he is THE President but he is ONLY the President. If you look at JFK's Presidency, NOTHING happened that CHANGED anything of note with his killing.
The Soviets STILL got out of Cuba.
Vietnam was already escalating.
Huge tax cuts were enacted and stayed.
LBJ's 'Great Society' were all pretty much off of Jacks drawing board.
That's the biggest conspiracy I can find, the biggest 'thing'; the Great Society. Jacks death motivates a stubborn Congress.
Follow me here. World ruling elites would want the masses sedated enough to not be a problem but still functional to work, right?
How to 'enslave' the working poor of the US? How to make them stuck in poverty and labor?
Viola: The Great Society. By any measure, it put millions of people directly under the thumb of the US Government and set a world pattern.
"If it 'works' in the US..."
Other than that, Castro was left alone which supports the un-published findings of the Warren commish: We can't be running covert ops from the White House".
To which Ronald Reagan was heard to say "yeah!"
(Sorry, Christy)That is completely untrue. The President does a TON of things that the House and Senate don't get to vote on. Loral? Iran-Contra?
I fully believe the President sneaks around and orders things to happen or not happen, through a circuitous route so he'll have deniability.
Otter
Nothing to see here
I have no clue about conspiracy theroys but I firmly believe Oswald wasn't acting alone. I saw a program some years ago where they had top marksmen try to shoot the same 3 shots that Oswald supposedly took from the same distance, height and time span and none could duplicate it. Oswald, from what I understand, was a lousy marksman when he was in the service before he went to visit the ruskies.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
OK...
...BUT we KNOW what happened in Iran Contra. We know what happened in Watergate. We KNOW what Clinton was up to by and large. Hell, we KNOW what happened to Hoffa.
Details and court of law sturdy proof are another matter but no one in their right mind can say;
Reagan didn't know
Nixon didn't know
Clinton didn't know
The mob doesn't know
Reagans motivation and result are clear as was Nixons as was Clintons as was the mobs.
These are not hard to understand.
For crying out loud, we know what John Wilkes Booth was up to and his actions were the worst possible result for the South. So much for the success of conspiracies.
At the end of the day, we the people STILL hold the power to elect Ross perot, Jesse Ventura, me, Vrai or anyone else to President and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.
We CHOOSE who is in Congress and in the Whitehouse and most people don't like facing up to that. Much easier to conjure conspiracies that a great man was struck down BEFORE he could do some unknown 'great thing' than to face that JFK was a lazy, diseased, rich playboy in way over his head. It's like Clinton, neither one did a damn thing good or bad of note. This nation has stood up to much worse.
Yet somehow these frat boys who are led about by their penis are worthy of secret empires risking all and ousting them?
John Hinckley came within inches of killing Reagan.
Where the hell is the great Greenpeace/Communist/NOW/Tip O'neil complex murder theory???
...BUT we KNOW what happened in Iran Contra. We know what happened in Watergate. We KNOW what Clinton was up to by and large. Hell, we KNOW what happened to Hoffa.
Details and court of law sturdy proof are another matter but no one in their right mind can say;
Reagan didn't know
Nixon didn't know
Clinton didn't know
The mob doesn't know
Reagans motivation and result are clear as was Nixons as was Clintons as was the mobs.
These are not hard to understand.
For crying out loud, we know what John Wilkes Booth was up to and his actions were the worst possible result for the South. So much for the success of conspiracies.
At the end of the day, we the people STILL hold the power to elect Ross perot, Jesse Ventura, me, Vrai or anyone else to President and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.
We CHOOSE who is in Congress and in the Whitehouse and most people don't like facing up to that. Much easier to conjure conspiracies that a great man was struck down BEFORE he could do some unknown 'great thing' than to face that JFK was a lazy, diseased, rich playboy in way over his head. It's like Clinton, neither one did a damn thing good or bad of note. This nation has stood up to much worse.
Yet somehow these frat boys who are led about by their penis are worthy of secret empires risking all and ousting them?
John Hinckley came within inches of killing Reagan.
Where the hell is the great Greenpeace/Communist/NOW/Tip O'neil complex murder theory???
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
All that may be true. What I'm saying (and what I believe Larry might be saying, too) is that there are emotional motivations behind conspiracies that take precedence over the facts in people's minds. After a certain point, people see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. They ignore or spin away any contrary evidence.
I would! But I think Hinckley was really a lone nut and I believe the story about him doing it for the love of Jodie Foster.Larry, how can you say that when you know that the media spins everything to get you to vote for the candidate THEY want? Our colleges these days are nothing more than liberal thinktanks, churning out little liberal journalists. There's no explanation on why any college would hire Angela Davis and some of these other nuts but that they want to brainwash the students.
College professors are another pet conspiracy theory of mine...
