Joseph Smith, Founder of Mormon Religion

[Xaquin44]

I find it cynical and sarcastic that you think clergy do their job for the money, that it's impossible to think people would help others religiously for no pay.

The majority do it for no pay through prayer groups and study/discussion groups - voluntarily and through sheer desire. A few do it as a career, and need to be housed and fed - they get little more than that.

It's not a surprising concept, and that you treat it as one is what I find sarcastic and cynical.

well no offense, but you seem to think it's impossible for atheists to be nice just because they want to.

 

[This_person]

Their fiction doesn't agree with your fiction??

You should burn their churches.. and run them off.. to someplace desolate.. like UTAH!!

It's also sarcastic and cynical to refer to someone else's beliefs as "fiction", and then assume that the response would be something like destruction and intolerance. Most religious people don't believe that you should "convert or die", not even most Muslims. We're a pretty tolerant bunch, really, of other people's thoughts and beliefs. Of course we believe our own to be correct, but accept that you can believe as you will. The vast majority of us don't belittle someone for having a belief system.

Do you understand your sarcasm and cynicism yet?

 

[itsbob]

I find it cynical and sarcastic that you think clergy do their job for the money, that it's impossible to think people would help others religiously for no pay.

The majority do it for no pay through prayer groups and study/discussion groups - voluntarily and through sheer desire. A few do it as a career, and need to be housed and fed - they get little more than that.

It's not a surprising concept, and that you treat it as one is what I find sarcastic and cynical.

Oh... I'm sorry.. Guess my words hit close to home for you??

Actually I was referring MAINLY to the evengelists you see on TV begging for money so they can buy another mansion or another Bentley...

Of course ALL religions have the National/ International leaders that all live in heights accorded to royalty.. Mansions, limousines.. billions in real estate, jewelry and art..

 

[itsbob]

It's also sarcastic and cynical to refer to someone else's beliefs as "fiction", and then assume that the response would be something like destruction and intolerance. Most religious people don't believe that you should "convert or die", not even most Muslims. We're a pretty tolerant bunch, really, of other people's thoughts and beliefs. Of course we believe our own to be correct, but accept that you can believe as you will. The vast majority of us don't belittle someone for having a belief system.

Do you understand your sarcasm and cynicism yet?

Nope, further enlightenment please..

 

[This_person]

well no offense, but you seem to think it's impossible for atheists to be nice just because they want to.

You're still not getting my point. I'll say again, of course atheists can be nice. Of course atheists can act like good people.

My point continues to be that there is nothing in atheism that teaches you to be that way - it's your choice to act like that, just like it's the choice of religious people who act poorly to act poorly. There is nothing in the religion of atheism that would lead you to believe that you should be nice to anyone else outside of selfish reasons. That doesn't mean the only reason an atheist is nice is selfish reasoning, it means there's nothing in atheism that teaches you to be nice.

Do you see the difference?

 

[itsbob]

It's also sarcastic and cynical to refer to someone else's beliefs as "fiction",

That wouldn't be sarcasm or cynicism.. but my belief..

I believe the bible to be a masterful work of fiction.. that is all, nothing else.

 

[Xaquin44]

You're still not getting my point. I'll say again, of course atheists can be nice. Of course atheists can act like good people.

My point continues to be that there is nothing in atheism that teaches you to be that way - it's your choice to act like that, just like it's the choice of religious people who act poorly to act poorly. There is nothing in the religion of atheism that would lead you to believe that you should be nice to anyone else outside of selfish reasons. That doesn't mean the only reason an atheist is nice is selfish reasoning, it means there's nothing in atheism that teaches you to be nice.

Do you see the difference?

atheism isn't a religion.

there are no atheism classes or whatever.

 

[tommyjones]

You're still not getting my point. I'll say again, of course atheists can be nice. Of course atheists can act like good people.

My point continues to be that there is nothing in atheism that teaches you to be that way - it's your choice to act like that, just like it's the choice of religious people who act poorly to act poorly. There is nothing in the religion of atheism that would lead you to believe that you should be nice to anyone else outside of selfish reasons. That doesn't mean the only reason an atheist is nice is selfish reasoning, it means there's nothing in atheism that teaches you to be nice.

Do you see the difference?

so bad christians are bad dispite of their religion and good atheist are good in spite of their lack of religion?
makes no sense to me.....

again i say, why do you need religion to tell you to be a good person? why do you need god looking over your shoulder making sure you dont 'sin'.

why can't you just do what you 'know' is right.

 

[Starman3000m]

HELLO your in a thread about the MORMON founder, where assumptions are made based on the interpretation of a Non-Mormon.

There was a thread yesterday about What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer(Baptists were also one of the biggest religious critics to Kennedy)

You can deny it but there is a feeling of unease, as well as an increase of Mormon "information", about Romney and the chance that he maybe the Republican Nominee.

Hmmm...actually there are no assumptions when comparing Mormon theology to fundamental New Testament teachings. Even an Atheist could tell that there is a difference when analyzing both teachings from an "objective" Atheistic point of view. The only premise is that the Atheist would have to be learned enough in both teachings in order to conclude that Mormonism cannot be considered a "Christian" religion just because Joseph Smith claimed he was granted the "Divine" privilege to "restore "Christ's true church on earth."

Some of the points in contrast between Mormonism and New Testament (NT)theology include the following:

-Mormonism teaches that the birth of Jesus was through sexual relations between the physical being,"God" and Mary.

NT: Jesus was conceived by the Divine Intervention of the Holy Spirit. If God, through His word could speak the worlds into existence and create man from dust, then God could cause Mary to conceive the Christ-Child, not through physical relations but by His Spoken Will.

-Mormonism teaches that Jesus is the "spirit-brother" of Satan.

NT: No such reference in the Holy Bible. By contrast, Jesus is the embodiment of God in human form while Satan is a created angelic being with free-will who rebelled against God.

-Mormonism teaches that a Mormon male can become exalted to become a "god" and inherit a planet that he will be able to populate with his multiple wives.

NT and Old Testament: There is only One God and no other(s). Satan's pride drove him to believe he could overthrow God and become "as the Most High".
There are no marriages in heaven and no continued population through sexual relations.

- Mormonism teaches that there are three (3) levels of heaven, the most faithful being able to be end up in the third and highest heaven.

NT: There is only One Heaven that will be the eternal destiny of those who have been saved by faith - not in "religion" or "religious works" but in God's Plan of Salvation through Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[Xaquin44]

so bad christians are bad dispite of their religion and good atheist are good in spite of their lack of religion?
makes no sense to me.....

again i say, why do you need religion to tell you to be a good person? why do you need god looking over your shoulder making sure you dont 'sin'.

why can't you just do what you 'know' is right.

he's just going to argue 'how do you 'know' it's right?'

 

[Toxick]

atheism isn't a religion.

And yet atheists are always among the loudest and most vehement voices in the Religion Forum.


I think Atheists should form two sects among themselves. The Orthodox Atheists who don't believe, and also don't care what other's believe (and therefore rarely enter religions discussions), and the Anti-Theists, which would form the militant wing, and where most of the vocal atheists in here would land.

Just an idea.




Y'all could form Atheist Chruches, and have various get-togethers, and have things like bingo down the basements....

It would give you a nice sense of community.

 

[Xaquin44]

And yet atheists are always among the loudest and most vehement voices in the Religion Forum.


I think Atheists should form two sects among themselves. The Orthodox Atheists who don't believe, and also don't care what other's believe (and therefore rarely enter religions discussions), and the Anti-Theists, which would form the militant wing, and where most of the vocal atheists in here would land.

Just an idea.




Y'all could form Atheist Chruches, and have various get-togethers, and have things like bingo down the basements....

It would give you a nice sense of community.

I'd be down for some bingo hehe

hahaha an atheist pancake supper or ham and oyster dinner

since we wouldn't have to pray we could play some guitar hero or watch a movie

I may have to start this lol

 

[tommyjones]

Hmmm...actually there are no assumptions when comparing Mormon theology to fundamental New Testament teachings. Even an Atheist could tell that there is a difference when analyzing both teachings from an "objective" Atheistic point of view. The only premise is that the Atheist would have to be learned enough in both teachings in order to conclude that Mormonism cannot be considered a "Christian" religion just because Joseph Smith claimed he was granted the "Divine" privilege to "restore "Christ's true church on earth."

Some of the points in contrast between Mormonism and New Testament (NT)theology include the following:

-Mormonism teaches that the birth of Jesus was through sexual relations between the physical being,"God" and Mary.

NT: Jesus was conceived by the Divine Intervention of the Holy Spirit. If God, through His word could speak the worlds into existence and create man from dust, then God could cause Mary to conceive the Christ-Child, not through physical relations but by His Spoken Will.

-Mormonism teaches that Jesus is the "spirit-brother" of Satan.

NT: No such reference in the Holy Bible. By contrast, Jesus is the embodiment of God in human form while Satan is a created angelic being with free-will who rebelled against God.

-Mormonism teaches that a Mormon male can become exalted to become a "god" and inherit a planet that he will be able to populate with his multiple wives.

NT and Old Testament: There is only One God and no other(s). Satan's pride drove him to believe he could overthrow God and become "as the Most High".
There are no marriages in heaven and no continued population through sexual relations.

- Mormonism teaches that there are three (3) levels of heaven, the most faithful being able to be end up in the third and highest heaven.

NT: There is only One Heaven that will be the eternal destiny of those who have been saved by faith - not in "religion" or "religious works" but in God's Plan of Salvation through Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

by a similar argument you can say that catholics aren't christian b/c they believe in purgatory among other things that are not explict to the bible....

of someone believes they are christian, they are christian.

how about unitarians? are they christian? they dont believe the trinity....
be they sure believe in christ.

 

[Toxick]

I'd be down for some bingo hehe

hahaha an atheist pancake supper or ham and oyster dinner

since we wouldn't have to pray we could play some guitar hero or watch a movie

I may have to start this lol

Keep a log on how many times conversation focuses on the Christian Religion. I'd be interested to know that little piece of information.

 

[itsbob]

Hmmm...actually there are no assumptions when comparing Mormon theology to fundamental New Testament teachings. Even an Atheist could tell that there is a difference when analyzing both teachings from an "objective" Atheistic point of view. The only premise is that the Atheist would have to be learned enough in both teachings in order to conclude that Mormonism cannot be considered a "Christian" religion just because Joseph Smith claimed he was granted the "Divine" privilege to "restore "Christ's true church on earth."

Some of the points in contrast between Mormonism and New Testament (NT)theology include the following:

-Mormonism teaches that the birth of Jesus was through sexual relations between the physical being,"God" and Mary.

NT: Jesus was conceived by the Divine Intervention of the Holy Spirit. If God, through His word could speak the worlds into existence and create man from dust, then God could cause Mary to conceive the Christ-Child, not through physical relations but by His Spoken Will.

-Mormonism teaches that Jesus is the "spirit-brother" of Satan.

NT: No such reference in the Holy Bible. By contrast, Jesus is the embodiment of God in human form while Satan is a created angelic being with free-will who rebelled against God.

-Mormonism teaches that a Mormon male can become exalted to become a "god" and inherit a planet that he will be able to populate with his multiple wives.

NT and Old Testament: There is only One God and no other(s). Satan's pride drove him to believe he could overthrow God and become "as the Most High".
There are no marriages in heaven and no continued population through sexual relations.

- Mormonism teaches that there are three (3) levels of heaven, the most faithful being able to be end up in the third and highest heaven.

NT: There is only One Heaven that will be the eternal destiny of those who have been saved by faith - not in "religion" or "religious works" but in God's Plan of Salvation through Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

ANd since I assume you aren't a Mormon.. where or who do you get your information from??

Has this been taught to you??

Becasue most of what you write above isn't true..

Multiple wives in heavan or earth is NOT true.. BUT you can become sealed to your wife/ husband and your children, for all time and eternity, instead of 'til death do you part'

They do believe in three levels of 'heaven' But man given his own world to populate?? Do they get 70 virgins to do it with too??

But you've been brainwashed to think you know more about Mormons than you do about your own religion..

 

[Xaquin44]

Keep a log on how many times conversation focuses on the Christian Religion. I'd be interested to know that little piece of information.

you can come too.

we aren't picky.

bring a covered dish =)

 

[This_person]

he's just going to argue 'how do you 'know' it's right?'

Exactly. "Right" and "wrong" are moral concepts. Morality is, effectively, a religious concept. While Atheism is doctrine, it doesn't have religious concepts of morality, so there is not "right" or "wrong" as a part of atheism. Were the whole world atheist, the concepts would not exist. You only know to speak of them because the bulk of the society in which you were raised has religious people guiding your experiences and attitudes (even if they've failed to convince you).

 

[itsbob]

And yet atheists are always among the loudest and most vehement voices in the Religion Forum.


I think Atheists should form two sects among themselves. The Orthodox Atheists who don't believe, and also don't care what other's believe (and therefore rarely enter religions discussions), and the Anti-Theists, which would form the militant wing, and where most of the vocal atheists in here would land.

Just an idea.




Y'all could form Atheist Chruches, and have various get-togethers, and have things like bingo down the basements....

It would give you a nice sense of community.

There is a "Secularist" movement..

But we are waiting for our first miracle to prove we are right!

 

[Xaquin44]

Exactly. "Right" and "wrong" are moral concepts. Morality is, effectively, a religious concept. While Atheism is doctrine, it doesn't have religious concepts of morality, so there is not "right" or "wrong" as a part of atheism. Were the whole world atheist, the concepts would not exist. You only know to speak of them because the bulk of the society in which you were raised has religious people guiding your experiences and attitudes (even if they've failed to convince you).

well then you at least have to account for the fact that -any- society has certain laws/morals just by existing. The ancient greeks didn't believe in 'god' per say, but they still had morals etc. etc.

 

[Xaquin44]

There is a "Secularist" movement..

But we are waiting for our first miracle to prove we are right!

hehehe