Just Got a New Generator

Sneakers

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
Ran a whole house outage scenario this morning. Turned off the a/c, cut over to the Anker F3800. Everything turned on smooth, showing about 1500 watts draw. Much of the house was active, two attic fans, dehumidifier, water heater, fridges (although I don't know if any of the fridges were running at the time), and all the normal electronics. With a 1500 watt load, it showed about 2.25 hours until the battery ran out.

Turned off the water heater and dehumidifier, usage dropped to about 1100 watts. Turned on the a/c. Brownout, buzz, and the a/c quit, rest of the house was normal. The F3800 did struggle, but it was the a/c that pulled it's own plug and shut down, not the F3800. Returned everything to normal and grid power, took the a/c about 5 minutes to kick back on. Had me concerned for a few minutes, thought I blew it up, and today is not a day to be without a/c.

The a/c is a Goodman 14 SEER 4 ton installed Aug 2018. I'm going to check with the installer to see if a soft start device would be ok.

For the moment, using the battery backup with an automatic transfer switch in the summer is not a good idea. Manual cutover only after turning off the a/c. In the winter, should be fine.

One more note: I had the monitor app on my tablet set up to use WiFi. When the power goes out, no WiFi, and it take a while for the StarLink to reboot. Installed a bluetooth only version on my phone so I could see what was going on.
 
Sneakers

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
Sneakers said:
For the moment, using the battery backup with an automatic transfer switch in the summer is not a good idea.
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Oh wait.... just remembered that the automatic transfer switch is connected to a sub-panel with all the critical circuits. I just leave high draw loads on the main panel, so if the ATS kicks in, they won't be powered. If I need the a/c, I can plug the 9000w genny into the backup plug and run that while simultaneously charging the battery backup.
 
Clem72

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Sneakers said:
The a/c is a Goodman 14 SEER 4 ton installed Aug 2018. I'm going to check with the installer to see if a soft start device would be ok.
Click to expand...
Uh, you may really want to check on that. Mother in law had a 14 SEER 4 Ton AMANA installed in (checks notes) August of 2018 and the installer came back 2 years later and said they were supposed to include a hard start with the installation (per manufacturer). Guess which company rebrands their products as Amana?
 
Clem72

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Sneakers said:
soft start?
Click to expand...
HARD.
Goodman 5-2-1 Compressor Saver — CSRU3

The only real soft-starters I have heard of are for very large commercial motors, MUCH larger than what's in a residential HVAC system.

Two minutes of googling tells me there is a market for smaller ones, specifically to run stuff like RV air conditioners off of a solar generator (maybe that's where you picked up the term) but that's not what is called out for that heat pump or what is generally installed in residential HVAC systems.
 
Sneakers

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
The most widely used is the Easy Start, and the manufacturer calls it a soft start. Of all the devices I've looked at for home use, I have yet to see one called a hard start.

www.microair.net

EasyStart™ Flex Home AC Soft Starter

EasyStart™ Flex Home Soft Starter Micro-Air's EasyStart™ Flex is the most advanced and versatile soft starter designed for ALL SIZES of residential AC units up to 6 tons (72,000 BTUs). The EasyStart™ Flex offers a One-Size-Fits-All solution that includes adaptive learning and optimization...
www.microair.net
 
Clem72

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Sneakers said:
The most widely used is the Easy Start, and the manufacturer calls it a soft start. Of all the devices I've looked at for home use, I have yet to see one called a hard start.

www.microair.net

EasyStart™ Flex Home AC Soft Starter

EasyStart™ Flex Home Soft Starter Micro-Air's EasyStart™ Flex is the most advanced and versatile soft starter designed for ALL SIZES of residential AC units up to 6 tons (72,000 BTUs). The EasyStart™ Flex offers a One-Size-Fits-All solution that includes adaptive learning and optimization...
www.microair.net
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Yeah I looked, sounds like it's viable if your compressor isn't VFD (and yours isn't).

That said, I asked my buddy (actual electrician and HVAC tech, though not an EE) and he said they are almost never required except for people who try to run their heat pumps off an inverter (solar) or under powered generator.

He said they work fine for that application, but it's very unlikely to extend the life of your compressor in your heat pump. The compressors do most often die from overheating, but not generally from hard starts but rather being run full of crud in direct sun or with too high voltage, etc.

Anyways, if your application is trying to run the heat pump from your solar generator then a soft start kit would probably work well, and it should also remedy the issue that has the manufacturer recommending a hard start kit. He also said stay far away from the Chinese made ones that include a fan (they include because the cheap electronics overheat and need it), and the best one in his opinion is the Eltwin Hyper SureStart.
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
LightRoasted said:
For your consideration ...



Someone help me out here, how are these things generators? I see nothing that would be considered a typical generator.
Click to expand...

They are NOT Generators .... this is marketing speak, they are LiPO Batteries - Portable Power Stations

Like the Cable Modem is NOT a Modem, but a bridge / router

There is NO modulation and demodulation going on ... but uneducated consumers knew a modem connected them to AOL and therefore teh internet so for education / marketing these devices were called Cable Modems


- but you know this ...



PORTABLE GENERATORS VS. PORTABLE POWER STATIONS​




WHAT IS A PORTABLE GENERATOR?​


Portable generators are devices which turn fuel, gasoline, or propane (for dual fuel units), into electrical power. They do so in a range of outputs from roughly 1,000 watts to over 20,000 watts (for most commonly available devices 1-10 kW). Their output is limited mainly by the displacement (volume) of their engine.

Naturally, any increase in a generator’s power output comes at the price of increased noise, fuel consumption, size, and weight – hence, at expense of their portability. The most powerful portable generators (> 10 kW) are essentially portable only in name and require the use of a (usually included) wheel kit to move around.



WHAT IS A PORTABLE POWER STATION?​


Portable power stations (also called gasless generators or battery-powered inverter generators) are devices which can store electrical power in an internal battery for later use. In essence, they are giant power banks. Portable power stations usually provide electrical power of up to 1000 W, although there are exceptions and devices with much higher capacity can be encountered on the market. However, their portability is questionable.

Battery capacity of a portable power station is quite commonly limited to roughly the value of their power in watt-hours (Wh), e.g., a 1000 W generator stores 1000 Wh, which means that they can provide their maximum output for up to an hour at end.

Since most portable power stations aren’t necessarily large and run from a battery, they usually tend to be much lighter than units with combustion engines. Some of lightest units weight less than 10lbs.
 
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LightRoasted

LightRoasted

If I may ...
For your consideration ...

GURPS said:
They are NOT Generators .... this is marketing speak, they are LiPO Batteries - Portable Power Stations

Like the Cable Modem is NOT a Modem, but a bridge / router

There is NO modulation and demodulation going on ... but uneducated consumers knew a modem connected them to AOL and therefore teh internet so for education / marketing these devices were called Cable Modems


- but you know this ...



PORTABLE GENERATORS VS. PORTABLE POWER STATIONS​




WHAT IS A PORTABLE GENERATOR?​


Portable generators are devices which turn fuel, gasoline, or propane (for dual fuel units), into electrical power. They do so in a range of outputs from roughly 1,000 watts to over 20,000 watts (for most commonly available devices 1-10 kW). Their output is limited mainly by the displacement (volume) of their engine.

Naturally, any increase in a generator’s power output comes at the price of increased noise, fuel consumption, size, and weight – hence, at expense of their portability. The most powerful portable generators (> 10 kW) are essentially portable only in name and require the use of a (usually included) wheel kit to move around.



WHAT IS A PORTABLE POWER STATION?​


Portable power stations (also called gasless generators or battery-powered inverter generators) are devices which can store electrical power in an internal battery for later use. In essence, they are giant power banks. Portable power stations usually provide electrical power of up to 1000 W, although there are exceptions and devices with much higher capacity can be encountered on the market. However, their portability is questionable.

Battery capacity of a portable power station is quite commonly limited to roughly the value of their power in watt-hours (Wh), e.g., a 1000 W generator stores 1000 Wh, which means that they can provide their maximum output for up to an hour at end.

Since most portable power stations aren’t necessarily large and run from a battery, they usually tend to be much lighter than units with combustion engines. Some of lightest units weight less than 10lbs.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Beginning to better understand these things.
 
Sneakers

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
LightRoasted said:
For your consideration ...



Someone help me out here, how are these things generators? I see nothing that would be considered a typical generator.
Click to expand...
Smaller battery storage devices with an inverter were called 'solar generators' because they generate power from the sun via solar panels and output it from an inverter. Today's ICE generators use inverters as well. It's the fact that they make power that they get called a generator, doesn't matter if it's from gas, propane, etc... using an ICE motor, or the sun. Just replace the ICE motor with a solar panel and charge controller.

As these things got bigger and bigger, they became less of a solar generator and more of a power station, as Gurps noted.

Clem72 said:
www.wellbots.com

Special Bundle: EcoFlow Delta Pro Portable Power Station with FREE 160W Solar Panel

Introducing the world's first portable home battery with an expandable ecosystem for home backup, smart energy management, lower energy bills, and more.
www.wellbots.com www.wellbots.com
Click to expand...
Not a bad price. The new Ecoflow Pro 3 was on my short list, and I held off buying until it came out, and I could get the actual specs and see reviews. Still went with the Anker for a few reasons: it has a larger inverter (6000w v 4000w), better surge capability, better battery expansion. I already had 2 Anker portable solar panels @ 400w. The Ecoflow had a number of nice features, but none that I would take advantage of, like backward compatibility with older series batteries, flexibility in configurations, I also kept seeing odd problems described and trouble with support, but virtually none with Anker. The only thing I wish the Anker had was pass-through charging, the ability to charge via 120/240vac while still providing 240vac.

Here's a side-by-side comparison. Both good units, the Anker fit my needs better.

 
P

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
Sneakers said:
Smaller battery storage devices with an inverter were called 'solar generators' because they generate power from the sun via solar panels and output it from an inverter. Today's ICE generators use inverters as well. It's the fact that they make power that they get called a generator, doesn't matter if it's from gas, propane, etc... using an ICE motor, or the sun. Just replace the ICE motor with a solar panel and charge controller.

As these things got bigger and bigger, they became less of a solar generator and more of a power station, as Gurps noted.


Not a bad price. The new Ecoflow Pro 3 was on my short list, and I held off buying until it came out, and I could get the actual specs and see reviews. Still went with the Anker for a few reasons: it has a larger inverter (6000w v 4000w), better surge capability, better battery expansion. I already had 2 Anker portable solar panels @ 400w. The Ecoflow had a number of nice features, but none that I would take advantage of, like backward compatibility with older series batteries, flexibility in configurations, I also kept seeing odd problems described and trouble with support, but virtually none with Anker. The only thing I wish the Anker had was pass-through charging, the ability to charge via 120/240vac while still providing 240vac.

Here's a side-by-side comparison. Both good units, the Anker fit my needs better.

Click to expand...

Once again, a fool and their money are soon parted.
 
P

phreddyp

Well-Known Member
LightRoasted said:
For your consideration ...



Hahah. You too funny, not. An independent home regenerative power source is completely different from an EV.
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Why would anyone actually buy basically a UPS for home emergencies, they don't really produce power, they store power. Basically, a feel-good device kinda like mac-n-cheese or mashed taters or a Barbancourt rum and coke.
 
Sneakers

Sneakers

Just sneakin' around....
phreddyp said:
Why would anyone actually buy basically a UPS for home emergencies, they don't really produce power, they store power. Basically, a feel-good device kinda like mac-n-cheese or mashed taters or a Barbancourt rum and coke.
Click to expand...
omg.... did someone steal all the batteries out of your toys when you were a child, and left an indelible dent in your poor little mind? Just because it's not something YOU might do does not mean it's stupid or junk or whatever how you want to denounce it. Take your piss poor attitude elsewhere.

Who the hell cares where the power comes from as long as you have lights and heat in the middle of a snowstorm outage? Sure beats having to drag the generator out in a blinding rain.
 
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