Man rhrows brick and pastor, pastor blows him away

[Gilligan]

That might be true if they have enough time. Usually attackers don't always announce they are coming.

That response made no sense. Of course attackers don't "announce" their intentions. You have seconds to identify them as a threat, draw your firearm, and discharge as many rounds as you can.

 

[Chuckt]

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/...ck-opens-fire-during-service-here-are-details

Yeah well, that isn't the real story.

Assistant Detroit Police Chief Steve Dolunt says when he arrived at the scene, the body had already been moved. The pastor was then taken into custody, and the gun was obtained by police.

Police are also investigating allegations that the pastor was having an affair with the victim's wife.

http://www.syracuse.com/us-news/ind...n_armed_with_brick_during_church_service.html

Cops say Deante Smith, 25, attacked the unidentified pastor and threatened several parishioners of The City of God church with a brick and hammer, FOX2 reported. Police said the attack was not random; the pastor and Smith knew each other and the two have had problems in the past.

Assistant Detroit Police Chief Steve Dolunt said a previous police report had been filed against Smith, The Detroit Free Press reported.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/19/pastor-shoots-brick-wielding-man-in-detroit-cops-say/

It is hard to know what the facts are right now.

 

[Chuckt]

That response made no sense. Of course attackers don't "announce" their intentions. You have seconds to identify them as a threat, draw your firearm, and discharge as many rounds as you can.

In a perfect world, you would be able to defend yourself but some people are cowards and attack you when your back is turned.

 

[littlelady]

In a perfect world, you would be able to defend yourself but some people are cowards and attack you when your back is turned.

There are no words that could adequately respond to what you just posted. You need to get a grip on your flip flop condition. I don't think you should venture out of the Religion forum. Just looking out for you.

 

[PsyOps]

Sounds like a panic situation where the victim isn't thinking clearly to defend himself.

If you have a knock down weapon then only one shot that hits should be necessary.

If you use the self defense law to be judge, jury and executioner or better yet, "an eye for an eye" then that goes a little too far.

If you don't have a knock down weapon and someone is charging you with a knife, you could die because the intruder is running with momentum and your bullets will go through the person before they bleed out. Therefore, there would be no acceptable number of rounds to spare your life.

I still don't know why you would want to endanger everyone else's life in Church because someone is going to miss and there are too many people around.

Were you there? If you're in a church (or any such building) and a guy is running around with a weapon, what comes to mind?

"This guy could have other weapons; and I remember what happened in South Carolina. That ain't happening in my church"!!!

"OMG my life is danger"???

"I am responsible for the safety of my congregation and others could get hurt by this person"???

"Meh! I'll just stand here and watch this guy pound some skulls with a brick. It ought to be entertaining".

 

[PsyOps]

In a perfect world, you would be able to defend yourself but some people are cowards and attack you when your back is turned.

In a perfect world, you wouldn't have someone threatening your life like this.

 

[Chuckt]

Were you there? If you're in a church (or any such building) and a guy is running around with a weapon, what comes to mind?

"This guy could have other weapons; and I remember what happened in South Carolina. That ain't happening in my church"!!!

"OMG my life is danger"???

"I am responsible for the safety of my congregation and others could get hurt by this person"???

"Meh! I'll just stand here and watch this guy pound some skulls with a brick. It ought to be entertaining".

There was a jewelry heist at Jeweler's row in Philadelphia. The guards shot up the parking lot and I think they shot twelve cars but didn't get the suspects. If that had been a church, the people would have been dead from friendly fire.

 

[Chuckt]

In a perfect world, you wouldn't have someone threatening your life like this.

It wouldn't be a perfect world then because you wouldn't get to choose between right and wrong because you would be a robot.

Eve said to Adam, "Do you love me?" and Adam said, "Who else?" In a perfect world (which wouldn't be a perfect world), there is no choice.

 

[Gilligan]

In a perfect world, you would be able to defend yourself but some people are cowards and attack you when your back is turned.

That a) made no sense whatsoever and, b) is totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

 

[Chuckt]

That a) made no sense whatsoever and, b) is totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

Imagine if you had a worker who knew he couldn't beat another co-worker but he threatened to hit him in the back of the head with a board. You can't defend yourself in that situation except you can never have your back turned.

 

[Gilligan]

Imagine if you had a worker who knew he couldn't beat another co-worker but he threatened to hit him in the back of the head with a board. You can't defend yourself in that situation except you can never have your back turned.

Try to keep up Chuck. Focus. We are/were talking about how you respond with your firearm when you are being attacked yourself, or are in a position to stop an attack being made on someone near you. Nothing whatsoever to do with being concerned about what someone "might" do.

 

[Amused_despair]

As a human being in need of protecting myself I am going to empty the clip, if I have no gun I am going to hit him with whatever I have and keep hitting until I get tired or am pulled off. As a Christian, would Jesus want us to turn the other cheek, to forgive our attacker (this is the Religion forum, after all)?

 

[Chuckt]

Try to keep up Chuck. Focus. We are/were talking about how you respond with your firearm when you are being attacked yourself, or are in a position to stop an attack being made on someone near you. Nothing whatsoever to do with being concerned about what someone "might" do.

A firearm is a liability because the rationale is that no one is going to take you on from the front. They are going to take you on when you are at a disadvantage and take your weapon.

 

[Gilligan]

A firearm is a liability because the rationale is that no one is going to take you on from the front. They are going to take you on when you are at a disadvantage and take your weapon.

You really do make everything up as you go along, don't you? You have less than a clue.

 

[glhs837]

A firearm is a liability because the rationale is that no one is going to take you on from the front. They are going to take you on when you are at a disadvantage and take your weapon.

quite possible. which is why if you do carry, it's incumbent upon you to have and maintain control of your weapon, and be aware of others in a position to take that weapon. Same way I, as a rider, maintain awarenenss of all the traffic around me to ensure nobody gets close enough to my bubble to kill me. Like that Marine rule of gunfighting. "Be polite but have a plan to kill everyone you meet".

 

[PsyOps]

There was a jewelry heist at Jeweler's row in Philadelphia. The guards shot up the parking lot and I think they shot twelve cars but didn't get the suspects. If that had been a church, the people would have been dead from friendly fire.

IF? Why don't we go with what IS?

 

[PsyOps]

It wouldn't be a perfect world then because you wouldn't get to choose between right and wrong because you would be a robot.

Eve said to Adam, "Do you love me?" and Adam said, "Who else?" In a perfect world (which wouldn't be a perfect world), there is no choice.

You were the one that brought up "in a perfect world" no me. So, now are you ready to just stick with reality instead of pushing yourself into a corner?

 

[PsyOps]

A firearm is a liability because the rationale is that no one is going to take you on from the front. They are going to take you on when you are at a disadvantage and take your weapon.

Again, you love playing "what if". That was not the case in the OP article. It appears the attacker took the minister head on and lost. His weapon was not taken by the attacker. The liability here was the attacker under estimated his target. This SHOULD happen more often when law-abiding people have the ability to properly defend themselves. You'd deny free people of this freedom. You called the shooting 'out of line'. I consider it to be 'out of line' to demand we not be free to defend ourselves from harm; from evil.

 

[Chuckt]

You really do make everything up as you go along, don't you? You have less than a clue.

Fact Sheet: Stolen Guns.
The Role of Gun Theft in Arming Criminals.
Surveys of gun owners suggest that approximately 500,000 guns are stolen each year.
from private citizens] In addition, in 1998 and 1999, more than 29,000 firearms were.

Fact Sheet: Stolen Guns - Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School ...

http://www.jhsph.edu/research/cente...y-and-research/publications/guns_theft_fs.pdf...

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

 

[Chuckt]

Again, you love playing "what if". That was not the case in the OP article. It appears the attacker took the minister head on and lost. His weapon was not taken by the attacker. The liability here was the attacker under estimated his target. This SHOULD happen more often when law-abiding people have the ability to properly defend themselves. You'd deny free people of this freedom. You called the shooting 'out of line'. I consider it to be 'out of line' to demand we not be free to defend ourselves from harm; from evil.

The body was moved and they had a long standing issue between the two so the dead man can't tell his side of the story. Maybe it wasn't exactly as it was reported. And he can claim it was in self defense but I ask what he did to agitate the situation.

In my state, you better pull the body inside the house if you shoot them outside because you didn't retreat therefore your life wasn't in danger in the law's eyes.