Man tased 11 times, including his twig and berries

[TCROW]

Are you all saying that the focus of the temporary investigation should only be limited to the driver and everyone else in the vehicle should be immune from it?

Right, you are going to have to surrender your license if you’re the driver who was stopped. We don’t have a disagreement here.

As far as your questions about any passengers, that’s not what I’m saying, that is what the law says and I agree with it.

UNLESS, there is PC to believe a passenger committed a crime and it turns into a Terry encounter for that passenger. It is then a legal detainment for that passenger, and the scope of the investigation is sufficiently narrow.

This is the way our legal system works.

What would you change about it given the opportunity?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Very definition of a "traffic stop."

-A traffic stop, commonly called being pulled over, is a temporary detention of a driver of a vehicle by police to investigate a possible crime or minor violation of law.

Was this not a traffic stop? Regardless of how Chris believes the officers should have approached the vehicle.

Are you all saying that the focus of the temporary investigation should only be limited to the driver and everyone else in the vehicle should be immune from it? Or, are you saying that if the officer suspects a passenger then they need to detain the entire vehicle until a warrant is issued?

Driver. Notice the word driver. The man tazed was a passenger.

An officer has every right to ask for IDs from passengers. Consequently, passengers have every right to refuse to ID unless they are suspected of committing a crime and the officer has reasonable suspicion the passenger has, is, or about to, commit a crime.

A passenger's legal refusal to ID themselves to govt. agents should not be considered being uncooperative nor treated as such.

If the officer suspects the passenger of committing a crime, he can demand ID. But he needs more than just a hunch and more than "he's refusing to ID"

 

[vraiblonde]

0:15 - Officer first says "anyone got IDs on them".

If that's your idea of "provocation" you have some rage issues you might consider addressing. And on that note, I'm not interested in arguing with you.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

If that's your idea of "provocation" you have some rage issues you might consider addressing. And on that note, I'm not interested in arguing with you.

You quote "provocation" as if anyone has said it.

You are arguing with voices in your head because it's clear you haven't the slightest clue what's going on in this case, nor the slightest concern about the Constutiton when it doesn;t suit your ridiculous arguments. It's probably best you scurry on.

 

[vraiblonde]

You quote "provocation" as if anyone has said it.

You are arguing with voices in your head because it's clear you haven't the slightest clue what's going on in this case, nor the slightest concern about the Constutiton when it doesn;t suit your ridiculous arguments. It's probably best you scurry on.

Yeah, yeah, you and your kindergarten insults.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Was this not a traffic stop? Regardless of how Chris believes the officers should have approached the vehicle.

This was not a traffic stop. The cops see a car backing into a parking spot after they had turned into the parking lot from a back alley. The cop lied about the non-use of a turn signal as justification to harass. There was no violation of any traffic law, or any other law, for the cop to even stop, let alone ask for anyone's ID. So, from the very beginning of this fiasco, the cops are in the wrong.

 

[vraiblonde]

I think if any of you had a friend or a family member who was a cop, you would change your tune.

 

[TCROW]

I think if any of you had a friend or a family member who was a cop, you would change your tune.

Ah yes. The one two combo of the appeal to ignorance and appeal to emotion logical fallacies. And in a single sentence to boot!

Well done.

 

[black dog]

Very definition of a "traffic stop."

-A traffic stop, commonly called being pulled over, is a temporary detention of a driver of a vehicle by police to investigate a possible crime or minor violation of law.

Was this not a traffic stop? Regardless of how Chris believes the officers should have approached the vehicle.

Are you all saying that the focus of the temporary investigation should only be limited to the driver and everyone else in the vehicle should be immune from it? Or, are you saying that if the officer suspects a passenger then they need to detain the entire vehicle until a warrant is issued?

detention of the DRIVER, No reason to speak to anyone else in the vehicle other than to say hello.

 

[black dog]

I think if any of you had a friend or a family member who was a cop, you would change your tune.

My younger sister was a Deputy Sheriff in Jacksonville for 20 + years, BIL a Forensic Chemist that carries a LE badge, two friends are Montgomery Co MD officers, another on is a PG Co officer, one other a Calvert Co Deputy Sheriff. A few others that are Federal officers, Been around them for decades.
They all took Oaths to uphold the Constitution, i'm weary and tired of agents of The Government stepping on citizens given Rights.

 

[TCROW]

I think if any of you had a friend or a family member who was a cop, you would change your tune.

I think if any of you had friend or family member GUNNED DOWN by a madman with a black scary looking "ASSAULT RIFLE" in a school, you'd change your tune on gun control.

<snicker>

 

[black dog]

I think if any of you had friend or family member GUNNED DOWN by a madman with a black scary looking "ASSAULT RIFLE" in a school, you'd change your tune on gun control.

<snicker>

No I wouldn't, the tool didn't do anything wrong. The person did.
I've never seen a gun, knife, hammer or 1,000's of other inanimate objects kill anyone, without a human operating it.

 

[TCROW]

No I wouldn't, the tool didn't do anything wrong. The person did.
I've never seen a gun, knife, hammer or 1,000's of other inanimate objects kill anyone, without a human operating it.

I forgot the sarcasm tag. I don't expect any rational American would. At least I'd hope.

 

[black dog]

I forgot the sarcasm tag. I don't expect any rational American would. At least I'd hope.

Half of America believes that firearms can chase folks down and shoot them all by themselves... Or President Trump made them do it.

 

[stgislander]

Half of America believes that firearms can chase folks down and shoot them all by themselves...

Only Glocks.

 

[MiddleGround]

detention of the DRIVER, No reason to speak to anyone else in the vehicle other than to say hello.

Got it! So, according to you, TCROW, and Chris... if I am an offender (i.e. drug dealer, killer, etc.) and I get pulled over for a traffic violation then all I have to do is hand over the bag-o-crack to one of my passengers and I'm golden! Since, according to you all, they should be able to refuse to hand over proper ID, be immune to the investigation, and just be told "Hello."

 

[MiddleGround]

My younger sister was a Deputy Sheriff in Jacksonville for 20 + years, BIL a Forensic Chemist that carries a LE badge, two friends are Montgomery Co MD officers, another on is a PG Co officer, one other a Calvert Co Deputy Sheriff. A few others that are Federal officers, Been around them for decades.
They all took Oaths to uphold the Constitution, i'm weary and tired of agents of The Government stepping on citizens given Rights.

It is truely amazing how you seem to always know multiple people who are experts in the field of the topic at hand.

Thread about fossils... you know 17 people with PH.Ds in paleontology!
Thread about music... you know 12 people in the record business!
Thread about beer... you know the Busch family!

Truely amazing

 

[TCROW]

Got it! So, according to you, TCROW, and Chris... if I am an offender (i.e. drug dealer, killer, etc.) and I get pulled over for a traffic violation then all I have to do is hand over the bag-o-crack to one of my passengers and I'm golden! Since, according to you all, they should be able to refuse to hand over proper ID, be immune to the investigation, and just be told "Hello."

Yes, you're finally understanding.

Why do you hate the Constitution so much?

 

[MiddleGround]

Yes, you're finally understanding.

Why do you hate the Constitution so much?

If it was against the Constitution, then I am sure there would be a lawsuit every time a car got pulled over with more than just the driver.

Why do you hate personal responsibility so much?

 

[TCROW]

If it was against the Constitution, then I am sure there would be a lawsuit every time a car got pulled over with more than just the driver.

Why do you hate personal responsibility so much?

What does personal responsibility have to do with this?

The Constitution places limits on the government in terms of when we can be compelled to answer any questions they may have.

Explain to me precisely what your issue is with not speaking to an armed agent of the state when you're not compelled by law to do so?