Maryland: State's Right Supercedes Parent's Rights

[2ndAmendment]

...deviant. I just don't set it apart as some sort of super-sin. You told me in your faith all sin is equal. There's all sorts of sin people don't repent, right?

As far as me and religion, I think of myself as agnostic; I'm not a person of faith BUT I don't know the truth as a matter of fact as it is a matter of faith and I won't know until I'm dead. That much I do know.

No one can no know for sure or it wouldn't be faith anymore.

Sin is sin and all sin is deserving of the same penalty, death and a trip to the lake of fire for eternity. Homosexual behavior is not any different in that regard. The only "super sin" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which the Bible says is the only unforgivable sin.

Yes, believing without seeing is the essence of faith, but may I point out that if you die without belief in virtually every religion, Christian or otherwise, it is too late. Of with some Eastern religions you get to come back a cockroach or something and keep going round and round on the reincarnation "hampster wheel" until you get "perfect nothingness" or Nirvana. I'd rather be in the kingdom of God than in perfect nothingness. I been in Iowa and that is pretty close to perfect nothingness.

 

[bcp]

Let's make sure we're putting the blame where it belongs. That state of Maryland didn't say this. They quoted the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit (opinion written by Williams, C.J., August 10, 2005). The decision in Myers v Loudoun County basically said: you have the right to raise your child any way you see fit (with obvious limits of abuse, etc). If you don't like what the state provides in "free" education, you have many other options. It's not that you don't have the right to have your child not hear it, you do have that right. If your beliefs are outside of the school boards, go somewhere else. What Maryland's state Board of Ed didn't do was say "well, that's dumb, let's keep it out of the curriculum of Montgomery County until more information can be obtained".

couldnt the same be said to people if the state were to start teaching that religion was valid and true?

since they dont have a problem with the state violating the 1st amendment when it comes to telling students that their religion is wrong, I am only guessing that those same people will have not problem with the state violating the 1st amendment when they tell the students that religion is based on truth.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...gets to define what abuse is?


That's right.

There are reasonable norms. Is spanking abuse? No. Is taking a fist and blasting your five year old in the face abuse? Yes. Is having sex with your children abuse? Yes. Is allowing or promoting sex with others before the age of consent abuse? Yes. But who sets the age of consent? Indiana just set it at 14. Some middle east countries think 12 is OK. A bar mitzvah is at 13 I think and that is when a Jew becomes "an adult." So that is probably a cultural thing.

But back to the question of whether the Board of Ed has the right to supersede what a parent wishes to be taught. I don't think so when it comes to sexual issues whether it is normal or abnormal sex or even birth control.

 

[Larry Gude]

Agreed...

Didn't say that. I said that the biological reason for sex is procreation.

...100%. And the biological reason for procreation?

 

[2ndAmendment]

...serious; South Park is some of the best social commentary and analysis there is on TV.

They do a fantastic job of presenting issues as they are, not as people try to spin them.

In your opinion.

 

[This_person]

Are there any examples of the types of "lessons" that are supposed to be taught concerning homosexuality?

The lessons in question are characterized this way: There are three lessons {by the way, this is really good. Two 45 minutes eighth grade sessons plus 2 45 minute 10th grade session plus an additional 45 minute 10th grade session = 3 lessons};

The Grade 8 lessons are a two-part lesson on "Respect for Differences in Human Sexuality" Each part of the lesson provides 45 minutes of instruction, a total of 90 minutes for the entire lesson over the course of two days. In the first session, students examine negative effects of stereotyping and harassment, and positive results of respect, empathy, and tolerance on individuals and teh school environment. In the second session, students consider how people respond to differences in gender identity, sexual identity, and sexual orientation.

The Grade 10 lessons are on "Respect for Differences in Human Sexuality" that build on the Grade 8 lesson with information and materials appropriate for the higher grade level. Each part of the lesson provides 45 minutes of instruction, for a total of 90 minutes for the entire lesson over the course of two days. In the first session, students learn the vocabulary of human sexuality and build on their understanding with factual information, including references to laws the schools must follow to prevent harassment and discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, and sexual identity. In the second session, students examine sexual orientation and the challenges related to human sexuality that some adolescents may face.

A single session lesson in Grade 10 presents a "Condom Use Demonstration" for disease prevention and control. the 45 minute lesson includes a brief video {double } that demonstrates the correct examination, use, and disposal of a condom. The lesson serves as a bridge between the unit of Family Life and Human Sexuality, which includes information about contraception, and the unit on Disease Prevention and Control, which includes informationon sexually transmitted disease and infection. {Now, the kicker that is the opposite of everything above} The lesson emphasizes abstinence from sexual activity as the most effective method to prevent unwanted pregnancy and to protect against sexually transmitted disease and infection.

 

[Larry Gude]

That's not up to you...

There are reasonable norms.

...there are some people today, in positions of power, who think spanking is abuse and I think there are plenty of young males who would not only benefit long term from a broken jaw but a complete azz whippin'.


I don't think it is right, per se, for the school board to supersede parental wishes. I think parents have every right and responsibility to work for what they want the school board to do and the board had better damn well be answerable even if that means impeaching the executive who appointed them.

I just happen to think the school board is operating in a fashion acceptable to a majority of parents.

 

[awpitt]

Is spanking abuse? No.

Is spanking abuse? If it leaves a mark, Yes. Legally speaking.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes...

In your opinion.

...in my opinion. For instance, last night's replay of the 9/11 episode was brilliant.

In my opinion.

 

[Midnightrider]

The lessons in question are characterized this way: There are three lessons {by the way, this is really good. Two 45 minutes eighth grade sessons plus 2 45 minute 10th grade session plus an additional 45 minute 10th grade session = 3 lessons};

where is the problem? all i see is lessons on tolerance and healthy sexual practices. a tenth grader should be mature enough to discuss sexual responsibility, and they are definately having sexual urges, so it seems like they are targeting the right age group.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...100%. And the biological reason for procreation?

Come on. You are just being obtuse. I am sure you know the reason for procreation, but just in case you missed that in you life experience it is for survival the species. If the predominate sexual relation in humans became homosexual, the species would eventually die out.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well...

Sin is sin and all sin is deserving of the same penalty, death and a trip to the lake of fire for eternity. Homosexual behavior is not any different in that regard. The only "super sin" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which the Bible says is the only unforgivable sin.

Yes, believing without seeing is the essence of faith, but may I point out that if you die without belief in virtually every religion, Christian or otherwise, it is too late. Of with some Eastern religions you get to come back a cockroach or something and keep going round and round on the reincarnation "hampster wheel" until you get "perfect nothingness" or Nirvana. I'd rather be in the kingdom of God than in perfect nothingness. I been in Iowa and that is pretty close to perfect nothingness.

...my visits to Iowa have been brief, but, they seemed to be good people.

I'll take Iowa over being a roach.

As far as being too late, all I'm saying is that, in the end, we all find out the truth as it is and not as anyone has tried to argue it is.

 

[bcp]

I bet I would get arrested for contributing to the delenquincy of a minor if I were to show a movie to 10th graders that showed the genitals, and showed them in use.

Not appropriate for children.

the best course would be one that stated very simply.
regardless of what you personally think of homosexual relationships, any derogatory actions that involve another student while on school property will be dealt with quickly and harshley.

pretty much sums it up.
even if you know that homosexuality is wrong, we dont want to hear it here. We also do not wish to hear that it is right. Baically, we dont want to hear any conversation on school grounds that involves sexual content. Homosexual or other.
and leave it at that.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Is spanking abuse? If it leaves a mark, Yes. Legally speaking.

And that is absurd. Spanking is supposed to hurt. A red spot on a buttocks is only a big deal in the eyes of some dingbat Liberals. A red spot on a cheek from a slap is only a big deal in the eyes of some dingbat Liberals. I am not talking about bruises, I am speaking of the red flushing of the skin that shortly goes away.

The out of control Social Services is why we have out of control kids. Parents are not allowed to parent which involves discipline and sometimes discipline needs to be corporal in nature.

 

[Larry Gude]

Right...

Come on. You are just being obtuse. I am sure you know the reason for procreation, but just in case you missed that in you life experience it is for survival the species. If the predominate sexual relation in humans became homosexual, the species would eventually die out.

...right, life. I am not being obtuse. Do we agree otherwise good people do have sex for pleasure, at least sometimes? Is that bad?

So, next question; what is the point of human life? Solely to procreate? I suppose we could argue that that is all that really matters. Homosexual behavior is as old as any other sin, right? Homosexuals can still procreate. They may not like it, but they can do it.

Homosexual preference is not species threatening.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...my visits to Iowa have been brief, but, they seemed to be good people.

Yeah. I like the people in Nebraska, too.

I'll take Iowa over being a roach.

I'll take the kingdom of God over either.

As far as being too late, all I'm saying is that, in the end, we all find out the truth as it is and not as anyone has tried to argue it is.

True. But I think that the evidence of Jesus is convincing.

 

[This_person]

where is the problem? all i see is lessons on tolerance and healthy sexual practices. a tenth grader should be mature enough to discuss sexual responsibility, and they are definately having sexual urges, so it seems like they are targeting the right age group.

I think the "problem" comes in with the lesson determining what constitutes "negative effects of stereotyping and harassment, and positive results of respect, empathy, and tolerance on individuals and the school environment." To me, this is where the school is {likely} saying, "it's just what they do, and to not like it, and not have equal respect and empathy towards homosexual activities as heterosexual activities is BAD". Possibly in so many words. Again, I'm of the belief that this is a genetic defect, like blindness or deafness. It's a physical handicap, in my opinion. Why? Because you can't procreate. Does that mean all non-procreation sex is bad? Well, that's just a stupid question, in my opinion. Of course not.

But, having the school take 45 minutes out of it's day five times (for three lessons ) to teach something that equates a religious teaching with negative effects, and teaches a need to provide respect for something so many people find abhorant is not in the state's duty. It's an agenda of social conditioning to a specific ideology.

 

[Larry Gude]

Right...

Yeah. I like the people in Nebraska, too.I'll take the kingdom of God over either.
True. But I think that the evidence of Jesus is pretty convincing.

...but you don't get to choose, right? All you can do is the best you can do and live with your choices, right? I think you're pretty safe.

As far as Nebraska, I'll take hell over Nebraska in January.

 

[kmw1123]

However it is perfectly ok for the school to teach the children that their parents, and their religious beliefs are totally wrong, hateful and immoral?

Public schools do not teach anything about whether or not a religion is wrong, hateful, and immoral. Religion is neither supported or discredited. If you want your child to learn religious morals, teach them at home, church, or private school. Do not expect public schools to teach that something is a sin according to the bible. The only laws that we are required to uphold are those found in the constitution and the state. They may need to go back and fix whatever policy they made about including homosexuality in the curriculum and make it optional. I have yet to find a lesson plan that explains what is to be taught, but I hardly believe the class will be called Fudge Packing and Carpet Munching 101. I would also be suprised to find that they are forcing students to attend these classes. If they are to be included in the sex ed programs, then there is no reason why parents can opt for the student not to participate. But there are parents who do not have a problem with their students learning about other types of lifestyles, and if they support the school board's decision, then we have to accomodate them. That way, we support everyone's moral teachings, religious or not.

This is a topic that can be argued for days on end. Why not come up with a way to accomodate the wants and needs of both parties? Those that don't want it taught and those that do. Make it a win-win situation and not a "I'm right, you're wrong and you're going to burn in hell" arguement.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...right, life. I am not being obtuse. Do we agree otherwise good people do have sex for pleasure, at least sometimes? Is that bad?

No. God made it pleasurable so we would want to propagate.

So, next question; what is the point of human life? Solely to procreate?

The original reason for humans was to be a companion for God.

I suppose we could argue that that is all that really matters. Homosexual behavior is as old as any other sin, right?

Yes. And it is the first recorded sin that was punished by God directly.

Homosexuals can still procreate. They may not like it, but they can do it.

Not in homosexual sex.

Homosexual preference is not species threatening.

It would if it was the predominate sexual mode. Think of it this way. If homosexual behavior is promulgated as being normal to the children and more and more people become homosexual and heterosexual sex becomes the abnormal in the eyes of society (fat used to be pretty and trim ugly on women) and the society passes laws against heterosexual behavior. How long does the species last? One generation? Two if there is lots of illegal heterosexual activity going on?