Men don't have the right to choice!

[Bruzilla]

I used to agree with that; murder is murder, abortion is murder, end of story.

Personally I've always been for abortion simply for the fact that I don't think I should have to pay to raise kids that someone didn't want to have, nor suffer the social issues that these kids create as they grow up. In my opinion, if the Christians want all these kids to be born, then they should be responsible for adopting and raising all of them, and until they're ready to step up and take that responsibility they're no different than these a-hole musicians who stage a concert to buy food for starving people then run off to get their humanitarian awards while someone else gets stuck figuring out how to school, house, employ, and cloth the formerly dying masses... but I digress.

I have to disagree with your reasoning about how "we" can't stop women from committing all of the "the other horrors we hear about." Yes we can stop them from doing that. My aunt's family used to own a movie theater in Pittsburgh, and when she was young (back in the 1930s and 1940s) she said that it was not unusual at all to find a dead newborn floating in the toilets of the lady's room. These were all babies that were born to unwed mothers and they would just shoot them out into the toilet and leave. When someone reported finding a dead infant to my aunt, or when she found one herself, she called the police and they would send a call-out guy from a mortuary to pick up the corpse and take it back for cremation. No reports, no reporters, and no howels of protest from the public. It was just accepted that women were protecting their reputations and that was that.

Now when that happens today the opposite happens. There's tons of reports, cops track down the mother and arrest her for murder, the media splashes the story everywhere... hence that's why you hear about it. But whereas my aunt might find one or two babies a week, you might hear about a mother killing her newborn once a year. So granted, maybe we haven't stopped them, but we've sure come a long way towards preventing these horrors from happening.

But in the end, I think that people who say that abortion is murder and should be banned... except in the case of rape, incest, or for the mother's health, are contradicting themselves. If you're going to make those exceptions, then there's no reason you can't make other exceptions, which ultimately leads to legal abortion for everyone.

 

[Larry Gude]

But...

...the things I mentioned happened today, the last few years.

I do agree with this:

I think that people who say that abortion is murder and should be banned... except in the case of rape, incest, or for the mother's health, are contradicting themselves.

Rape, incest or moms health, that unborn is still innocent.

 

[vraiblonde]

But whereas my aunt might find one or two babies a week, you might hear about a mother killing her newborn once a year. So granted, maybe we haven't stopped them, but we've sure come a long way towards preventing these horrors from happening.

Hello? That would be because they don't flush their babies anymore - they have a doctor suck it out. What is the difference? Except that maybe the woman who had to give birth and flush the baby would think twice about doing it a second, third or fourth time?

But hear ya on the rest of that. I'm pro-abortion for the same reason. Ideally, women would keep their legs together and not run the risk of unwanted pregnancy. But that's a pipe dream, so the next best thing is for them to not foist it off for the rest of us to deal with.

Abortion IS murder - but, as a social Darwinist, I have no real problem with that.

 

[kingpl2]

You said:




I used to agree with that; murder is murder, abortion is murder, end of story.

Where I've changed is that in the case of murder, let's say I'm going to 7-11, walk in at the wrong time and a robbery turns into a homocide, up until my death I was a fully functioning person, not dependant on a mothers womb AND her willingness to take care of herself for my direct benefit.

So, my death is a crime of taking from me everything I had as an individual; autonomy being very chief among them.

Vrai got me to see that, frankly, if the mother doesn't give a #### and is going to smoke crack, drink and so on during the preagnancy and God knows what else when I'm an infant, well, you simply can't FORCE the mother, in a free society, to CARE. You can't make her take care of herself. You can't make her NOT let her boyfriend hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat or keep her from plopping me in a dumpster when I'm born or all the other horrors we hear about.

So, yes, it is a life, it is human but there has to simply be the acknowledgement that the mother is and should be in charge here.

I used to and still do feel that a mother being able to choose to have an abortion has serious negative consequences on aimless children, especially teenagers. When they're searching for meaning in life and come up against the fact that they are not precious or priceless UNLESS mom chose to have them, to not dispose of them, that it was an OPTION, it makes them wonder that much more; 'what's the meaning or point of life if my being here is basically no more consequential than choosing to have a puppy or not?'.

On the other hand, if kids understand that life in and of itself is pointless and has no meaning, that one GIVES life meaning, they become very liberated and never again suffer from "What's it all about? Why am I here?"

And on that basis, I can accept abortion. When I was younger it was simply inconceivable that a mom would NOT want her child. Life teaches. Better to not bring that child into life than have it tortured and broken by some wretch.

The human life exists... the mother will either be the mother of a dead baby or a live one nine months later.

None of us are independent we all get from others. We deceive ourselves if we think otherwise.