Misquoting Jesus

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

I gave the Word of God. Your links must be investigated because you are really out there on the wrong team. Folks, you don't need a link - just a copy of the Word and hey, I'll give you one if you need it. Your quietness on Scripture and truth I gave you speaks volumes at this point.

Well sure I see now,

this Fred is right because Fred said so,

and Fred does not accept any back-talk.

While my links are on my side so the links must be wrong too.

So this Fred might have sheep that follow him because sheep are ignorant, and Fred will keep them that way.

For my side - I expect others to think for themselves and judge rightly and give up being a blind sheep.

 

[fredcaudle]

Well sure I see now,

this Fred is right because Fred said so,

and Fred does not accept any back-talk.

While my links are on my side so the links must be wrong too.

So this Fred might have sheep that follow him because sheep are ignorant, and Fred will keep them that way.

For my side - I expect others to think for themselves and judge rightly and give up being a blind sheep.

Well at least you agree I'm right! Foolish argument to say "my sheep" - you claim to know Scripture and the "sheep" belong to God and hear His voice, not mine or yours. You sound like a kid that wants to take his toys to another sand box because you had nothing better to reply with! According to you someone is NOT ignorant if they don't dispute you... wow... how's that ego working these days?

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

Foolish argument

sound like a kid

NOT ignorant ?

I agree that all this is foolish child talk and we need to get back to the subject.

This thread is rightly about many words in the Bible being misrepresented big-time link HERE.

 

[fredcaudle]

You wrote on the link you gave... "By taking out the fake and wrong things from the Bible then the greater truth is all that remains," My real question would be if "1+1=2" could ever be proven false even just once we would throw the whole equation out because once false, always false. How then is "the greater truthy is all that remains?" Contradiction... if something or someone is false once it is always false and nothing remains true in that work or equation. Please explain which parts we could go on.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

My real question would be if "1+1=2" could ever be proven false even just once we would throw the whole equation out because once false, always false.

In a math problem then that is true that we throw out any miscalcultion but the Bible is not equivolent to a math test.

In any historical and literature research then we find new information and that we add onto or replace or subtract from the old information and we do not throw out everything just because one part turns up as incorrect or even faked and fraud.

God hides things and information from most people because the Bible tells people how to become powerful and instrumental in this world and the other world and so God does not give that info except to the few persons that are able to go to that far.

Even a small amount of spiritual information can go a long way in making a person powerful against the many ignorant sheep so the more farther one goes into the secrets of God in the scriptures then the more powerful the person(s) become, and it is not given to an unfaithful servant(s).

Christ said it hard yet true about meat to dogs and pearls before swine link HERE.

God and Christ are not hypocrites and so they do not give what is holy to persons that will mis-use it.

How then is "the greater truth is all that remains?"

It is just that simple.

When we take out the false and fake stuff then the rest is true.

Contradiction... if something or someone is false once it is always false and nothing remains true in that work or equation.

There is no reality in that conclusion that if part of it is wrong then all of it is wrong.

We go to a Court of Law and we find that one guy is lying and the other story is true and people are very capable of judging one part as correct and true and the other parts as not true.

The book of Jonah is a Jewish fable and was never meant to be taken as literally true link HERE.

Please explain which parts we could go on.

The Bible is a big book and very complicated to unlock its secrets so there are many large parts that we can claim as holy scripture.

I know very much of it but I do not have a prepared list to show.

There are books available, if one searches for them, that do give detailed list of Bible errors and facts.

 

[Kain99]

Wow! In this thread is the reason "Religion" was born.

Very sad people.

 

[fredcaudle]

thanks for the clarification. Just a couple of thoughts, 1Cor. 2.14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him..." God does not hide His word as you say, He gives those who will hear the Spirit to discern His message. When we start at a very basic point of Jonah and call it a Jewish fable we can't have the Spirit of discernment. Jesus (who you claim was not a hypocrite) said, "For as Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth... (41) and now one greater than Jonah is here..." He also used Jonah's example to the nation of Israel and said this is the sign (of Jonah) to this generation (the generation Jesus walked amongst).
A sign is useless if it is false, because again falseness cannot bear truth.

When a person lies, we call him/her a "liar".... falseness always breeds falseness and to the Bible, which liar do we believe as to the "true" parts. I have read all those books about errors and such. I have the "missing" documents to the Bible as well. Spiritual man discerns in Spirit, worldly, unbelieving man - well, doesn't believe.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

Wow! In this thread is the reason "Religion" was born.

Very sad people.

FYI, that comment does not make any sense.

No where is it given the "reason religion was born"

and what are you saying is sad? the people? or religion being born?

Making a totally confusing post is not an effective way to communicate.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

When we start at a very basic point of Jonah and call it a Jewish fable we can't have the Spirit of discernment. Jesus (who you claim was not a hypocrite) said, "For as Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth... (41) and now one greater than Jonah is here..." He also used Jonah's example to the nation of Israel and said this is the sign (of Jonah) to this generation (the generation Jesus walked amongst).
A sign is useless if it is false, because again falseness cannot bear truth.

Jesus talking about Jonah does not make the Jewish fable into a true story.

Especially since Jesus spoke in paribles that told stories.

Today we talk about "Robin Hood" and "King Arthur" and his "round table" to deliver a message but those stories are not real.

Plus even more pointed is that Jesus said like Jonah he would be three days and three nights in the grave link HERE,

therefore the Friday (Good Friday) till Easter (Sunday morning) does not equal three days and three nights,

and that means the Orthodox Easter story is not based on the Biblical account.

So we find another untruth there.

When a person lies, we call him/her a "liar".... falseness always breeds falseness and to the Bible, which liar do we believe as to the "true" parts. I have read all those books about errors and such. I have the "missing" documents to the Bible as well. Spiritual man discerns in Spirit, worldly, unbelieving man - well, doesn't believe.

I certainly do understand that you can not determine truth from lies and people like you can not do it,

but I and others can determine the truth from untruths and so we do it.

 

[fredcaudle]

Matthew 17.22 "... the Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. (v23) They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life." [Jesus words, NIV]

Jesus was buried shortly before sunset on Friday afternoon, lay in the grave through Saturday, and rose from the dead sometime before sunrise on Sunday morning.

JPC - Jesus did NOT live in our time zone!!!! The Jews, Greeks, and Romans would make the "three days in the tomb" mean on whole central day and any part of each of the two other days.

For those who want links, go to a Jewish calendar and time study. Jesus was a Jew and did not live His ministry in our time zone. (You can also study Eusebius or Josephus in calendaring the times.)

I see truth and you see reasons to dispute Scripture so that you will not have to conform to it... man has been doing that for quite some time.

As to Jonah... believe it or not... does not change faith. You live by your faith and I live by mine. Every thing in "Misquoting Jesus" is about faith - you can't prove a thing nor can I. Faith to believe experts and scholars of today or faith to believe the Bible. Period.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

Jesus was buried shortly before sunset on Friday afternoon, lay in the grave through Saturday, and rose from the dead sometime before sunrise on Sunday morning.

JPC - Jesus did NOT live in our time zone!!!! The Jews, Greeks, and Romans would make the "three days in the tomb" mean on whole central day and any part of each of the two other days.

According to the Bible Jesus said He would be three (3) days and three (3) nights in the grave, link HERE.

So the Friday noon untill Sunday morning just is not accurate.

It is simple arithmatic and it does not matter which time zone one is in.

And it also means that I am going by the Bible account and not Orthodoxy.

 

[camily]

Matthew 17.22 "... the Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. (v23) They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life." [Jesus words, NIV]

Jesus was buried shortly before sunset on Friday afternoon, lay in the grave through Saturday, and rose from the dead sometime before sunrise on Sunday morning.

JPC - Jesus did NOT live in our time zone!!!! The Jews, Greeks, and Romans would make the "three days in the tomb" mean on whole central day and any part of each of the two other days.

For those who want links, go to a Jewish calendar and time study. Jesus was a Jew and did not live His ministry in our time zone. (You can also study Eusebius or Josephus in calendaring the times.)

I see truth and you see reasons to dispute Scripture so that you will not have to conform to it... man has been doing that for quite some time.

As to Jonah... believe it or not... does not change faith. You live by your faith and I live by mine. Every thing in "Misquoting Jesus" is about faith - you can't prove a thing nor can I. Faith to believe experts and scholars of today or faith to believe the Bible. Period.

I have a question Fred. I went to the Jews for Jesus site to see what they have to say. They state that:
"He couldn't have died on Friday...Friday sundown is the Sabbath...Nt clear that he rose when the sabbath ended. If he died at sundown on Friday...and rose at the end of the Sabbath on Saturday then he was in the ground one day and night.

Passover is considered a sabbath day in the Nt....timeline for him to be buried before Passover began and to rise at the end of the sabbath day 3 days and nights later is for the Passover to have been a Wednesday.

Jesus was Jewish therefore the he rose at the end of the Jewish sabbath 3 days and nights after passover."
This is from their forums where they were also discussing the three day and three night arguemant.
So, is it possible since the Jewish calendar was different then, that he died on Wednesday, making this arguemant moot?

 

[fredcaudle]

According to the Bible Jesus said He would be three (3) days and three (3) nights in the grave, link HERE.

So the Friday noon untill Sunday morning just is not accurate.

It is simple arithmatic and it does not matter which time zone one is in.

And it also means that I am going by the Bible account and not Orthodoxy.

1 Corinthians 15.3-8 [NIV] For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance; that Christ died for our sins according to Scriptures, that He was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to Scripture, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time...

500 witnesses to three days or jpc's thoughts 2,000 years later it is a lie? I'll take the gospel everytime since you nor I were there.

To argue this point is again because we don't want to believe it because we have to change if it is true. Jesus died and rose again. If that is too hard too believe for you, ok... doesn't change everyone's viewpoint and certainly not those 500 witnesses who some gave their life as a testimony to their witness.

But I know... that's orthodoxy or whatever jibberish. Faith is what we live by... faith to believe or faith to ignore

 

[fredcaudle]

I have a question Fred. I went to the Jews for Jesus site to see what they have to say. They state that:
"He couldn't have died on Friday...Friday sundown is the Sabbath...Nt clear that he rose when the sabbath ended. If he died at sundown on Friday...and rose at the end of the Sabbath on Saturday then he was in the ground one day and night.

Passover is considered a sabbath day in the Nt....timeline for him to be buried before Passover began and to rise at the end of the sabbath day 3 days and nights later is for the Passover to have been a Wednesday.

Jesus was Jewish therefore the he rose at the end of the Jewish sabbath 3 days and nights after passover."
This is from their forums where they were also discussing the three day and three night arguemant.
So, is it possible since the Jewish calendar was different then, that he died on Wednesday, making this arguemant moot?

Since the church fathers declared the Lord's day to be Sunday since this was the day Jesus was resurrected... I maintain Fri - Sun. (Looking for the orthodoxy statement there!!!!)

The major point to believe or not to believe is Scripture and that 3 days He would be resurrected and then this was shown by 500 witnesses.

Everyone has an opinion including me... I can only state what Scripture shows and then leave questionable arguments that don't change the gospel to other folks.

 

[JPC sr]

Mr. Ferarri

Since the church fathers declared the Lord's day to be Sunday since this was the day Jesus was resurrected... I maintain Fri - Sun. (Looking for the orthodoxy statement there!!!!)

At least you are declaring it as Orthodoxy that the Church declared because Sunday is not the 7th day sabbath and Jesus did not rise on the day of the Sun-God and those Orthodox claims are not from Jesus nor correctly from the Bible.

But so long as one knows that they are following Orthodoxy then so be it and believe away Fred.

The major point to believe or not to believe is Scripture and that 3 days He would be resurrected and then this was shown by 500 witnesses.

No one questions the Bible record of three (3) days in the grave because Jesus did stay three days and 3 nights in the grave.

It is the wrong beliefs pushed in Orthodoxy of Friday-Sunday that is wrong - not the Bible.

The crusifiction was on a Wednesday as the next day Thursday was the feast of Passover and so Thursday was a "high [sabbath] day" link HERE because the last supper was a Passover meal link HERE, and Jesus rose from the dead at sunset / sundown at the weekly sabbath Saturday evening which is the dawning of the first day of the week Sunday link HERE and each day begins at sundown link HERE Genesis 1:5 and 1:8.

See the Bible does tell us what happened and it is different then the Christian Orthodoxy.

 

[camily]

Since the church fathers declared the Lord's day to be Sunday since this was the day Jesus was resurrected... I maintain Fri - Sun. (Looking for the orthodoxy statement there!!!!)

The major point to believe or not to believe is Scripture and that 3 days He would be resurrected and then this was shown by 500 witnesses.

Everyone has an opinion including me... I can only state what Scripture shows and then leave questionable arguments that don't change the gospel to other folks.

I agree 100% that it was three days. I was just wondering what your opinion was on it being Wed-Fri or Fri-Sun. Either way, Jesus died for my sins and on the third day rose again.

 

[camily]

At least you are declaring it as Orthodoxy that the Church declared because Sunday is not the 7th day sabbath and Jesus did not rise on the day of the Sun-God and those Orthodox claims are not from Jesus nor correctly from the Bible.

But so long as one knows that they are following Orthodoxy then so be it and believe away Fred. No one questions the Bible record of three (3) days in the grave because Jesus did stay three days and 3 nights in the grave.

It is the wrong beliefs pushed in Orthodoxy of Friday-Sunday that is wrong - not the Bible.

The crusifiction was on a Wednesday as the next day Thursday was the feast of Passover and so Thursday was a "high [sabbath] day" link HERE because the last supper was a Passover meal link HERE, and Jesus rose from the dead at sunset / sundown at the weekly sabbath Saturday evening which is the dawning of the first day of the week Sunday link HERE and each day begins at sundown link HERE Genesis 1:5 and 1:8.

See the Bible does tell us what happened and it is different then the Christian Orthodoxy.

Please don't take my words (the question about Wed-Fri vs. Fri-Sun) and turn it into your own as if that was what you were referring to all along. You never mentioned those days until I did and now you are making it seem as if I am in agreement with you, which I am not.
Re-read your posts. You WERE saying he wasn't there three days and three nights.

 

[fredcaudle]

At least you are declaring it as Orthodoxy that the Church declared because Sunday is not the 7th day sabbath and Jesus did not rise on the day of the Sun-God and those Orthodox claims are not from Jesus nor correctly from the Bible.

But so long as one knows that they are following Orthodoxy then so be it and believe away Fred. No one questions the Bible record of three (3) days in the grave because Jesus did stay three days and 3 nights in the grave.

It is the wrong beliefs pushed in Orthodoxy of Friday-Sunday that is wrong - not the Bible.

The crusifiction was on a Wednesday as the next day Thursday was the feast of Passover and so Thursday was a "high [sabbath] day" link HERE because the last supper was a Passover meal link HERE, and Jesus rose from the dead at sunset / sundown at the weekly sabbath Saturday evening which is the dawning of the first day of the week Sunday link HERE and each day begins at sundown link HERE Genesis 1:5 and 1:8.

See the Bible does tell us what happened and it is different then the Christian Orthodoxy.

Are you saying all churches as orthodoxy or just the Catholic church? (Catholic being proper name of church and not universal church)

Are you saying church (if all) are a waste of time?

Have no idea where you stand as you have changed direction a few times from begrading the Bible to begrading church (orthodoxy) to begrading believing people as ignorant.

Help - you are all over the board.

 

[PsyOps]

At least you are declaring it as Orthodoxy that the Church declared because Sunday is not the 7th day sabbath and Jesus did not rise on the day of the Sun-God and those Orthodox claims are not from Jesus nor correctly from the Bible.

Who really cares what day it was? I mean you'll disagree with anything! If Christians decide to observe their day of worship in fellowship with each other and God on Sunday what stinking difference does it make? Do you really think God is sitting up there going "you got the wrong day"?

 

[camily]

Who really cares what day it was? I mean you'll disagree with anything! If Christians decide to observe their day of worship in fellowship with each other and God on Sunday what stinking difference does it make? Do you really think God is sitting up there going "you got the wrong day"?

Now that there was funny!