More Trent Lott stuff

[Tonio]

The whole idea of vouchers bothers me, because I know too many people who choose schools based only on the racial makeup of the student body. White families moving into St. Mary's County used to be told, "Whatever you do, don't let your kids go to Great Mills."

But I like the idea of magnet schools. A school truly run by the community instead of by a bureaucracy is a great idea.

From what I've seen of the public schools, here are the problems as I see them:

1. Too much school bureaucracy. Many of the central office administrators haven't been in a classroom in years.

2. Too many rules and regulations. Regardless of the type of school, good teachers know from experience what works. It seems like too many school regulations are written by people who have no interaction with students.

3. Too much power held by the teachers union. I'm not anti-union or pro-union. But I have seen the union fight every single attempt to remove incompetent teachers. The mission of a union should be good working conditions, not job protection at any cost. Also, whenever the state imposes a new testing program, good or bad, the union plays obstructionist.

 

[Larry Gude]

Starting a new thread...

..."School Vouchers" in, oh, how about "Current Events?"

 

[Frank]

Originally posted by Tonio
The whole idea of vouchers bothers me, because I know too many people who choose schools based only on the racial makeup of the student body. White families moving into St. Mary's County used to be told, "Whatever you do, don't let your kids go to Great Mills."

I've never heard anyone suggest that people shouldn't send their kids to Great Mills because of race - I've only heard about crime and education. IS Great Mills mostly or largely black? All this time, I had NO idea - just have heard that it is not a good school. Am I wrong? Is it a good school? Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard it suggested that race is the motivating factor.

Originally posted by Tonio
1. Too much school bureaucracy. Many of the central office administrators haven't been in a classroom in years.

2. Too many rules and regulations. Regardless of the type of school, good teachers know from experience what works. It seems like too many school regulations are written by people who have no interaction with students.

Totally agree. I've recently heard tons of horror stories from a teacher friend who works in Montgomery County who has recently decided to just quit teaching. Not long ago, she had a student throwing chairs at her, and injuring her. Terrified, she shouted back at the student - mostly pleading with him to stop, but also other things. She was reprimanded for shouting at the student, and that student was not expelled or in any way punished. Unbelievable. Somehow, having the crap beat out of you by a disruptive student, and you're not allowed to *shout* back? What are you supposed to do? Geez, now we can't even use *harsh language*. I suggested they round up all of the disruptive students, take them on a field trip to the admininstrator's office - and then have an "emergency" come up so that the kids get stranded there for the day. Then these twerps who make UP the rules will be forced to actually LIVE by them.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Frank

Totally agree. I've recently heard tons of horror stories from a teacher friend who works in Montgomery County who has recently decided to just quit teaching. Not long ago, she had a student throwing chairs at her, and injuring her. Terrified, she shouted back at the student - mostly pleading with him to stop, but also other things. She was reprimanded for shouting at the student, and that student was not expelled or in any way punished. Unbelievable. Somehow, having the crap beat out of you by a disruptive student, and you're not allowed to *shout* back? What are you supposed to do? Geez, now we can't even use *harsh language*. I suggested they round up all of the disruptive students, take them on a field trip to the admininstrator's office - and then have an "emergency" come up so that the kids get stranded there for the day. Then these twerps who make UP the rules will be forced to actually LIVE by them.

The teachers should be allowed to keep a gun on their desk.. I wonder how many big shots would have the nerve to talk back then?

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by Frank
I've never heard anyone suggest that people shouldn't send their kids to Great Mills because of race - I've only heard about crime and education. IS Great Mills mostly or largely black? All this time, I had NO idea - just have heard that it is not a good school. Am I wrong? Is it a good school? Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard it suggested that race is the motivating factor.

Here are last year's percentages of black students at each school: 28 percent at Great Mills, 10 percent at Leonardtown and 10.7 percent at Chopticon.

When we first came here 22 years ago, some realtors that we called assumed we were black and steered us to neighborhoods such as Tubman-Douglass. In the years since, I've heard lots of racist things said about Great Mills, some of it in code. When the county talked about redistricting Wildewood to Great Mills, the parents there were in an uproar. The biggest complaint was about the effect on property values. In my opinion, those parents needed to get their priorities straight.

Part of the problem is perception, because of the school's neighborhood. But the other problem is that the school system's administrators treat Leonardtown as the flagship school. No wonder, since most of their kids go there.

 

[Frank]

I hear ya - but - you're still making the case on race, and haven't said whether or not it is a good school or a bad one. Is it a good school? Drugs, crime? Are the students getting a good education? For a short time in my life, my family lived in an area of PA that was almost totally white, but they still avoided *some* schools, and moved me around, because some schools were just bad. Eventually, they chose a Catholic school some 15 miles away instead of the public school within walking distance, because it was a poor school - even though both were almost totally white.

So people are not going there, or opting away from it, AND it happens to be a little higher black percentage. Geez. The way you described it, I thought it was like 60-70%. I went to schools closer to DC where 28% would be LOW. I just don't see how you make the leap to *race* as the motivating factor yet. If it is not a good school, I could care less about the racial makeup. School is for getting an education, not satisfying someone's diversity agenda.

 

[vraiblonde]

My son went to Great Mills and it was an okay school. He seemed to like it. The location of the school leaves a lot to be desired but, other than that, I wasn't concerned. He seemed to get an average high school education.

Also, my son ran with a mixed black/white crowd and they never seemed to be aware of "race relations". Just a bunch of kids hanging out. The athletes were mostly black, and therefore the popular kids. The class president was black, as was the valedictorian. In fact, the scuzziest kids I ever saw at Great Mills were white kids.

My cop buddies told me that Chopticon actually has a worse record for student problems, drugs, violence, etc.

 

[Tonio]

Frank and Vrai, thanks to both of you for keeping your eye on the real issue about a school--the quality of education. I wish more parents followed your example.

My original point was that Great Mills' reputation has nothing to do with quality of education. I wasn't saying that the school has a majority-black student body. I was saying that tons of white people have that perception about the school. For two decades, I've heard people use code to describe GM as the "black" school, without coming right out and saying it. And that perception, inaccurate as it is, influences where they buy their homes. Some realtors play up to that, touting subdivisions as being in the Leonardtown school district.

And that's what is truly sad. So many parents don't bother to investigate the quality of education, and only look at the neighborhood or listen to the scuttlebutt. And Great Mills isn't the only school harmed by that closemindedness. I've heard students and parents at Leonardtown dismiss Chopticon as "Cowpie High" and worse.

 

[vraiblonde]

I went to a bad-reputation high school too. I had a lot of friends from Jr. High whose parents drove them to another school just so they could avoid Lincoln High, based on what they'd "heard" about it. I did 3 years there and managed to get out alive and come away with some form of education - not sure what they were basing their opinion on. I don't remember a lot of fights or crime and the kids that went to the "good" high school did a lot more drugs than we ever thought about doing.

We were very racially mixed - maybe that's what it was. I think I just learned something...

 

[kelley]

Here's my opinion of the schools down here
SMR: a Catholic school with no true education, a disregard for merit, and no true Catholic administration
LHS: the best. SMR without the hindersome rules, with diversity, a premium on merit, and a generally well-to-do student population.
CHS: not as good as LHS. Money is not a premium here but redneck culture is and well I just hate this school, but it is second on my list.
GMHS: the worst public school of SMC. This school just plain sucks. Besides the building I can say little good about this school.

 

[smcdem]

Although I don't liek your politics jet, your right we kick their asses when it comes to college preperation.

 

[Kain99]

Originally posted by smcdem
Although I don't liek your politics jet, your right we kick their asses when it comes to college preperation.

Attention Please!! Check the spelling and usage on the above thread and then.... State your opinions regarding Ryken!

 

[SmallTown]

http://www.smrhs.org/page11.html
http://www.smcps.k12.md.us/super/press/SAT2002.htm


SAT AVERAGE SCORES

CLASS OF 2002

Ryken:
VERBAL 563 MATH 550 TOTAL 1113

GMHS:
VERBAL 499 MATH 505 TOTAL 1004

CHS:
VERBAL 503 MATH 517 TOTAL 1020

LHS:
VERBAL 527 MATH 519 TOTAL 1046

Even though they had the lowest scores, great mills made the greatest jump in scores from the previous year.

also..
SAT gains by African American students in St. Mary's County tripled in comparison to gains made by White students. The total score for African American students for 2002 was 889, up 61 points from the year before.


bet Lott is getting nervous..

 

[Frank]

Even though they had the lowest scores, great mills made the greatest jump in scores from the previous year.

Overall - most of them aren't unusual, except for Ryken (I have no idea what kind of school it is). Average for the test is supposed to be 1000, even, although the national average usually falls around 1020-1030, and all of the others are pretty close to that.

also..
SAT gains by African American students in St. Mary's County tripled in comparison to gains made by White students. The total score for African American students for 2002 was 889, up 61 points from the year before.

This is good, as improvement towards at least the national average is good - but - you can't statistically compare gains like this, because the test has a maximum, which means as you approach to top score, all improvements get smaller. It's like saying I improved more because my bowling score went from 80 to 140, and my friend only went from 220 to 240. It may be triple the gain, but I have more room to improve in, and those higher scores are hard to improve upon.

It's good they are making those gains - but comparing the two is not logical, because incremental changes are less likely the closer you get to the maximum.

 

[kelley]

Originally posted by jetmonkey
If this is true why do they top the other schools SAT scores?

What I meant was that Ryken is basically a secular private school. Its religious committment that thrived under the brothers has disappeared.

 

[Heretic]

Well private schools have other advantages in test scores over public schools than just better teaching. Take you average student, the average student at a private school has parents that care more, or atleast enough to pay for it so are more likely to push their kids. Not to mention the private schools probably dont have the complete morons that all public schools have (at mine it was the inbreeds from the town that smelled bad due to a steel mill).

Basically you put something better in you get something better out.

 

[SmallTown]

Well with my experience with the private schools back home, it wasn't a matter of the students being better or parents trying harder.. It was actually just the opposite, parents paying big bucks so they WOULDN'T have to be involved more.. Can't say if it the same here or not.

Happy New Year

 

[Frank]

My experience would also align with Heretic's - that parents of students who went to private school were more involved with the education of their children, because it came at such a very high cost. I suppose if parents are filthy rich and can ship their kids off to boarding school, I can see what you mean - but I never knew those kind. The ones I knew spent most of their discretionary cash to educate their kids, and you can be damned sure they weren't going to just not pay attention. In constrast, the kids going to public school seemed to have totally absent parents - literally. I wish I had a nickel for every party I went to where there were NO parents to be seen.