Mormons and polygamy

L

libby

New Member
So I was thinking about the...very emphatic reactions of some Mormons rejecting polygamy. Now I can't say I've discussed the issue with the few Mormons I know, so this thought comes from reactions on religion forums, or news stories and such.
Why would they be so darn determined to distance themselves from fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy? As far as I can tell, it's not that the mainstream LDS leadership ever said that polygamy was "wrong", per se, just that there was once a time for it, but that time has passed. The way some of the LDS behave you would think that they think the practice is actually wrong, which then begs the question that how can something that is wrong ever have been right? Although that's another...thread.
Any thoughts? Any LDS here?
 
MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
libby said:
So I was thinking about the...very emphatic reactions of some Mormons rejecting polygamy. Now I can't say I've discussed the issue with the few Mormons I know, so this thought comes from reactions on religion forums, or news stories and such.
Why would they be so darn determined to distance themselves from fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy? As far as I can tell, it's not that the mainstream LDS leadership ever said that polygamy was "wrong", per se, just that there was once a time for it, but that time has passed. The way some of the LDS behave you would think that they think the practice is actually wrong, which then begs the question that how can something that is wrong ever have been right? Although that's another...thread.
Any thoughts? Any LDS here?
Click to expand...

I grew up Mormon, but I am not one now. My great-great-great grandfather had 13 wives. I have a picture of my great-great grandfather in prison for polygamy in 1884 with Mitt Romney's great grandfather.

Something to consider - the Mormons were seriously persecuted. Their leader was assassinated, the locals were raiding and destroying their towns, and the governor of Missouri ordered that all Mormons be exterminated. One of my ancestors walked from Illinois to Utah when he was 7 years old to escape. This is a huge part of why the Mormons became so separate from non-Mormons, and even today they believe in being "in" the world, but not "of" the world.

After they moved to Utah, they were allowed to live in peace for the most part, but polygamy was still a big sticking point in their dealings with the federal government. Once the feds started sending polygamists to prison, it all came to a head. It became evident that they were fighting a losing war.

Cue my non-Mormon bias: their prophet conveniently had a "revelation" and they gave up polygamy. Those who insisted on polygamy essentially renounced the church and created their own.

They consider their leader to be a real prophet. They believe he is guided by God, and his revelations are directly from God. So those who rejected the revelation and continued polygamy were blasphemers or heretics. Since it was all over the issue of polygamy, anyone who had polygamist leanings was seen as also being a heretic.

I don't see it as being any different than if a group of Catholics rejected the Pope, started their own church, and proclaimed themselves to be the REAL catholics.
 
MarieB

MarieB

New Member
My LDS friends are against polygamy. One of them had a high school friend who ended up in a plural marriage. It really shocked her, and she had her bad stories about her life and how she was treated.
 
MarieB

MarieB

New Member
MMDad said:
I grew up Mormon, but I am not one now. My great-great-great grandfather had 13 wives. I have a picture of my great-great grandfather in prison for polygamy in 1884 with Mitt Romney's great grandfather.

Something to consider - the Mormons were seriously persecuted. Their leader was assassinated, the locals were raiding and destroying their towns, and the governor of Missouri ordered that all Mormons be exterminated. One of my ancestors walked from Illinois to Utah when he was 7 years old to escape. This is a huge part of why the Mormons became so separate from non-Mormons, and even today they believe in being "in" the world, but not "of" the world.

After they moved to Utah, they were allowed to live in peace for the most part, but polygamy was still a big sticking point in their dealings with the federal government. Once the feds started sending polygamists to prison, it all came to a head. It became evident that they were fighting a losing war.

Cue my non-Mormon bias: their prophet conveniently had a "revelation" and they gave up polygamy. Those who insisted on polygamy essentially renounced the church and created their own.

They consider their leader to be a real prophet. They believe he is guided by God, and his revelations are directly from God. So those who rejected the revelation and continued polygamy were blasphemers or heretics. Since it was all over the issue of polygamy, anyone who had polygamist leanings was seen as also being a heretic.

I don't see it as being any different than if a group of Catholics rejected the Pope, started their own church, and proclaimed themselves to be the REAL catholics.
Click to expand...

Would you mind saying what made you decide to leave the church?
 
MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
MarieB said:
Would you mind saying what made you decide to leave the church?
Click to expand...

My parents divorced and my mom left. Once I moved in with her I had a choice and decided not to be Mormon. I saw way too much hypocrisy and ugliness, just like what happens in most organized religions, and have never wanted to go back. I also do not agree with a lot of their teachings.
 
MarieB

MarieB

New Member
MMDad said:
My parents divorced and my mom left. Once I moved in with her I had a choice and decided not to be Mormon. I saw way too much hypocrisy and ugliness, just like what happens in most organized religions, and have never wanted to go back. I also do not agree with a lot of their teachings.
Click to expand...

Thanks :buddies:

Looking in from the outside, some things about their community seem very nice and other things not much.
 
BadGirl

BadGirl

I am so very blessed
I am actually intrigued about the Morman religion, and am now trying to learn more about it.

Sans the polygamy.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
libby said:
So I was thinking about the...very emphatic reactions of some Mormons rejecting polygamy. Now I can't say I've discussed the issue with the few Mormons I know, so this thought comes from reactions on religion forums, or news stories and such.
Why would they be so darn determined to distance themselves from fundamentalist Mormons who still practice polygamy? As far as I can tell, it's not that the mainstream LDS leadership ever said that polygamy was "wrong", per se, just that there was once a time for it, but that time has passed. The way some of the LDS behave you would think that they think the practice is actually wrong, which then begs the question that how can something that is wrong ever have been right? Although that's another...thread.
Any thoughts? Any LDS here?
Click to expand...

To use a farming principal.. why would you have 30 cows and one bull?

Mormon church was young and they needed to grow, they could do.missionary work, and they did, but coveraions are SLOW... The quickestnway to grow a religion is by members being born into it.. a man and woman marry and they can, at best, give the new church a new member every 12 - 14 months. You have one male marry 13 women you can produce a new church member every month for a decade or two. To get the same results with paired couples you'd need twenty couples or 40 adults.. polygamy 1 man 15 - 20 women with the same results. Lot less overhead, 19 fewer homes need built, less of everythung that would need ro be provided. This is also why polygamy is almost always one man with multiple wives, take out the fun factor and no real benefit to multiple wives and one husband.

It's all about growing the brand/herd.

At some point the herd is big enough, growing too fast, and polygamy is no longer needed...

It also helps that there is an Army Fort outide of Salt Lake City, the only Fort ever built with the guns pointung TOWARDS the city.
 
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itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Gay marriage has dropped the barriers though.. I would bet within a decade we'll be fighting over plural marriages.. using the EXACT same arguments.
 
L

libby

New Member
I think maybe I'm not clear on my question: Why do mainstream Mormons want to distance themselves so badly? They seem angry that someone might ask them about whether or not they might be polygamists. It's offensive to them, it seems, that someone might think that of them.
Comparing it to a Catholic thing: It used to be required, under pain of mortal sin, to eat meat on Fridays. That sacrifice was demanded of Catholics. It is no longer the case, because the CC has determined (I think) that it is no longer really a sacrifice in this day and age. We are still required to make a sacrifice, but not necessarily meat. There is nothing in this teaching that I want to distance myself from. It was a discipline of the CC for the time. Now, perhaps this is a matter of my understanding of what doctrine is. To me, doctrine cannot change, period. In the CC we have doctrines, which are unchangeable truth we must accept, and disciplines, which might be exercised in a certain time or place. Another discipline is celibate priests.
Why mainstream Mormons can't just say, "Well, that was a discipline of the time" and feel good about that, I don't understand. It's almost like they want the world to forget it ever happened.
Does this make sense?
 
hotcoffee

hotcoffee

New Member
Hello from Phoenix, AZ.... I'll be home tomorrow!!

Anyway... when we checked into the hotel here.... I opened a drawer and found not only a Gidean Bible but the Book of Mormon.... then I finally got on SOMD online again this morning [waiting to print my boarding pass] and I found this thread on mormons....

You know, I've been reading the BOM lately.... I haven't found anything about polygamy so far... but I'm only half way through [about 62 years before Christ]. It seems to me though that all Jews [and mormons were Jews it seems] are required to take care of the wives of those who had lost their husbands [widows and orphans].

If that's the case, and in the US you can assume for insurance and leases and other legal matters, it's easier to marry.

Could that be how this whole polygamy thing got started? Platonic marriages for legal purposes?

As for the prophet having a revelation.... throughout the Old Testament the chosen people were led away from "following the Commandments of God" and God sent prophets to straighten them out again. Check out my posts on Jonah for proof.

I wouldn't condemn any church for having a correction.... I'm still not saying I am a mormon.... but this polygamy question seems to be well after the Book of Alma in the Book of Mormon....

Be back tomorrow.... til then.... miss you all...

:coffee:
 
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L

libby

New Member
As for the prophet having a revelation.... throughout the Old Testament the chosen people were led away from "following the Commandments of God" and God sent prophets to straighten them out again. Check out my posts on Jonah for proof.
Click to expand...

But the "prophet" (Joseph Smith, I guess) was the one to reveal that polygamy was a commandment of God, and then another "prophet" later on had a revelation saying it was no longer a requirement for exaltation. Now, again, I'm not saying I object to certain changes in teaching, my curiosity is in the mainstream Mormons' (seeming) desire to want to forget it ever happened.
 
vraiblonde

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
libby said:
I think maybe I'm not clear on my question: Why do mainstream Mormons want to distance themselves so badly?
Click to expand...

Because they want to be seen as mainstream and not looked upon as the freaks and degenerates the media and other Christian religions have painted them to be. It's bad PR.

I have no earthly idea why anyone would care, but people seem to care very deeply about the lives of strangers that doesn't affect them in any way, so... :shrug:
 
hotcoffee

hotcoffee

New Member
libby said:
But the "prophet" (Joseph Smith, I guess) was the one to reveal that polygamy was a commandment of God, and then another "prophet" later on had a revelation saying it was no longer a requirement for exaltation. Now, again, I'm not saying I object to certain changes in teaching, my curiosity is in the mainstream Mormons' (seeming) desire to want to forget it ever happened.
Click to expand...

Sometimes I'd like to forget my mistakes... maybe that's what it is.... like I said tho... I'm not saying I'm a mormon.... and I'm only half way throught the book.... but it seems like this is a correction to a solution to a problem....

ALSO.... my daughter says the Mormons out here in Arizona actually go door to door like the Jehovah's Witnesses do back home.... and in the south the Baptists have a lot of tent revivals.... not so much further north.... and it seems that the Catholics in Rome have Mass in Latin more than here in the states.....

Maybe this whole polygamy idea was a legal way to protect the widows and orphans...

:coffee:
 
MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
libby said:
I think maybe I'm not clear on my question: Why do mainstream Mormons want to distance themselves so badly?
Click to expand...

I think you're misinterpreting what they are doing. I don't know any who are in denial the way it may seem to you. Their adamant response is more frustration. The only thing most people know about Mormonism is the polygamy part, and everyone assumes that they are all still polygamists. They get tired of answering the same question from people who assume that what they see on TV is real.

It's no different than if when I find out you're Catholic I ask if a priest has abused you.
 
MMDad

MMDad

Lem Putt
hotcoffee said:
Maybe this whole polygamy idea was a legal way to protect the widows and orphans...

:coffee:
Click to expand...

That was certainly a factor. My great-great-great grandfather married the widow of at least one of his friends, and took in his children to care for them.
 
MarieB

MarieB

New Member
MMDad said:
That was certainly a factor. My great-great-great grandfather married the widow of at least one of his friends, and took in his children to care for them.
Click to expand...


My friends told me that this was the case because so many men had been lost during the journey west, but I also read that polygamy began in I think Ohio before that journey even began. Still more to read about that
 
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